Reason as DAW- dealing with deficiencies

[babydaddymusic]

I am currently rediscovering reason as a standalone DAW. I’ve been recording music for many years and have used ProTools, logic, studio, one, and Cubase.
Even though we can use reason as a plug-in and other DAW’s, I find myself consistently more inspired and creative inside reason as a DAW.
It’s so much fun- I’m like a kid again.
I wanted to start a thread on how you guys deal with or perceive some of the “short-comings” of Reason as a DAW- I’m convinced the immediacy of the rack and mixer make up for so many of those short-comings.
1) I wish we had navigable markers but I know we can use blocks
2) can someone explain how delay compensation affects recording?

How do you guys feel about the pitch correction in Reason for just mild help for vocals? Comparing to Cubase Variaudio?

I love blocks as a songwriter- but I have found that I can’t use it for anything where there is overhang- like a reverb tail or cymbal crash- are there any ways that you have found to overcome that?

I record acoustic singer songwriter stuff with EZ drummer 3 or UJAM acoustic drums-
I love Reason so much just trying to sort out the cost benefit of staying in it as a DAW

[ortxedys]

This is a good conversation to have. Ever since the Rack plugin got introduced, i've tried most major DAWs and ended up coming back to Reason. I started to realize Reason did alot of what the others do, just differently. My main gripe with it is no drag and drop from the Reason browser to VST's.

The way I circumvent the issue is by resampling into Rolling Sampler, drag and drop from Rolling Sampler to said plugin, do what I need to do with the plugin, and finally bounce in place so I can delete the plugin. Self containing samples can tidy up the resampling root folder mess if you want to be able to easily open your projects in the future. It works well with REX files as well.

[w1pl0c]

I've had this weird thought that the macro system/remote file system could use an update. Midi remote mapping allows for only one knob/fader button to be mapped at a time. Of course there is combinator, but imagine a buff to Remote controlling that allowed for control of multiple combinator knobs. Not just 1:1.

I love the edit remote mapping function from the menu and this would be a fast way to add to the already capable Combinator.

Also some REs like (volt sl1) have so many knobs you can't even remote map them all. Remote map is the limit.

I just think that could be a quick way to help reason keep up with other daw macro systems

[Ottostrom]

Working in boring office software all day makes it essential for my DAW to look and act distinctly different. I love the rack and I love the chaos I create with my unorganized stacking of devices and routings. But I'm coming from a place of never having used any other DAW seriously. Ignorance is bliss
And I personally really like the pitch correction/vocal editing in Reason. Feels very fast and easy.

[robussc]

To be honest, I've never thought about putting audio clips into blocks (I do see videos of producers with sample clips all over the shop and I just scratch my head... like why don't you load them in to a sampler so you can just trigger then (and then easily replace them if you desire)).

And given the limitation you're describing, I don't think the Props expected it either (and, really, it's impossible to workaround because when a block ends, a block ends.) Which makes me wonder why you're recording with reverb burned in? Of course a cymbal crash with a long tail is going to be a problem, but are cymbal crashes so essential to a beat that they need to be in every block? Extract them and move them up in to the song track (or replace them with a triggered Kong cymbal?)

So I guess in summary, I think you're running into limitations because you're working against the Reason grain (no pun intended!). Recognize what doesn't work naturally in Reason, and adjust your workflow so that things "just work" rather that "don't work". :

[chimp_spanner]

Yeah this is a journey I make periodically, back to Reason haha. I still do like 90% of my work in Logic but the 10% I work in Reason is still fun, and I miss a lot of things about it.

With regards to your questions;

Markers; I would not use blocks for this. Instead, create an ID8 or some other low-impact device so long as it allows for note lanes (I believe one of the blank panel RE's out there allows for this, possibly ReMark?). And then just draw in empty clips and give them names, colour them, whatever. And then you can just select any of them and press P to wrap locators and start playing (or CMD/CTRL+L to set the loop without playing).

Also because you can have multiple note lanes, you can store other information here. Sometimes I'll have a "notes" lane, where I can put a red block and mark it "re-record this bit" or whatever the thing is I wanna remember.

I also sometimes put actual MIDI data on here, because it'll be a piano by default. It's a good way of just capturing an idea you have for a chord progression or melody even if you have nothing else in that section. Helps to keep things moving with the writing process!

Blocks Overhang; yeah this is a problem if you are using audio samples for drum hits. I guess the only way around that would be to trigger them from Mimic or any other sampler with a One-Shot envelope so it'll continue to play when the section loops.

[sublunar]

Markers; I would not use blocks for this. Instead, create an ID8 or some other low-impact device so long as it allows for note lanes (I believe one of the blank panel RE's out there allows for this, possibly ReMark?). And then just draw in empty clips and give them names, colour them, whatever. And then you can just select any of them and press P to wrap locators and start playing (or CMD/CTRL+L to set the loop without playing).

This is such a simple and obvious workaround to the long-standing deficiency of not having markers that I'm actually mad at myself for not thinking of it a long time ago. WTH. I've always wondered why the hell they don't just implement markers already. Seems like such a simple and obvious workflow enhancement that literally every other DAW on the planet has had since the beginning of time. Thank you for this recommendation.

I'm someone who has tried most DAWs out there and I just can't get on with any of them like I can with Reason, despite its comparative and sometimes frustrating deficiencies. Visualizing plugins (and the mixer) in a way that closely resembles physical equipment is such a good and immediately usable interface choice. All other DAWs just feel so cold and sterile.

At this point, I think the only thing that will get me to leave Reason is if they force the subscription as the only option. Reducing the offline registration time from perpetual to 12 months or whatever got me real close to leaving, though. As a paid customer, I just want the product I paid for to work reliably on my always offline studio machine without BS. Start messing with that and our relationship is gonna have some real problems.

Reason ain't perfect but damn it sure is fun and it gets the job done.

[scotward57]

I love this topic as well! I’ve been down the rabbit hole with both Logic and Ableton. Both have their strengths over Reason. But I’m not a producer or engineer. Just a cat that likes to fool around and jam. Don’t enjoy overthinking the music process that grew up during the hardware era. That’s why Reason makes so much more sense to me. I know that Ableton has the session view and Logic has Live Loops, but honestly I feel like I can accomplish a lot of that with patch or combinator programming (I.e. triggering clips and such). My only wish is that they bring some live performance options with Blocks. Somehow I see Blocks as an equivalent of Scenes in Live or Logic, but no way to trigger them. And it’s too bad Reason doesn’t make devices that correspond with 64 grid pad controllers. Kind of a wasted opportunity if you ask me!

[babydaddymusic]

To be honest, I've never thought about putting audio clips into blocks (I do see videos of producers with sample clips all over the shop and I just scratch my head... like why don't you load them in to a sampler so you can just trigger then (and then easily replace them if you desire)).

And given the limitation you're describing, I don't think the Props expected it either (and, really, it's impossible to workaround because when a block ends, a block ends.) Which makes me wonder why you're recording with reverb burned in? Of course a cymbal crash with a long tail is going to be a problem, but are cymbal crashes so essential to a beat that they need to be in every block? Extract them and move them up in to the song track (or replace them with a triggered Kong cymbal?)

So I guess in summary, I think you're running into limitations because you're working against the Reason grain (no pun intended!). Recognize what doesn't work naturally in Reason, and adjust your workflow so that things "just work" rather that "don't work". :

I have been working on this. I think using an effect send reverb is a great way to allow me to record with reverb and not have the block cutoff thing be an issue. Also, as you allude to, I can just record some stuff in the linear way to avoid issues. The ability to copy and paste starts to offset some of those limitations. What I love about block mode is that it takes pressure off of me as a songwriter to immediately start arranging the song in its entirety- needing to write a chorus or bridge right now- I can just have a really cool idea and not know exactly where it will fit in the context of a song.

[babydaddymusic]

Markers; I would not use blocks for this. Instead, create an ID8 or some other low-impact device so long as it allows for note lanes (I believe one of the blank panel RE's out there allows for this, possibly ReMark?). And then just draw in empty clips and give them names, colour them, whatever. And then you can just select any of them and press P to wrap locators and start playing (or CMD/CTRL+L to set the loop without playing).

This is such a simple and obvious workaround to the long-standing deficiency of not having markers that I'm actually mad at myself for not thinking of it a long time ago. WTH. I've always wondered why the hell they don't just implement markers already. Seems like such a simple and obvious workflow enhancement that literally every other DAW on the planet has had since the beginning of time. Thank you for this recommendation.

I'm someone who has tried most DAWs out there and I just can't get on with any of them like I can with Reason, despite its comparative and sometimes frustrating deficiencies. Visualizing plugins (and the mixer) in a way that closely resembles physical equipment is such a good and immediately usable interface choice. All other DAWs just feel so cold and sterile.


Reason ain't perfect but damn it sure is fun and it gets the job done.

Cold and sterile is a great way to put it- that's how I feel going back into Logic and Cubase now. I am going to try this marker trick!

[babydaddymusic]

Yeah this is a journey I make periodically, back to Reason haha. I still do like 90% of my work in Logic but the 10% I work in Reason is still fun, and I miss a lot of things about it.

With regards to your questions;

Markers; I would not use blocks for this. Instead, create an ID8 or some other low-impact device so long as it allows for note lanes (I believe one of the blank panel RE's out there allows for this, possibly ReMark?). And then just draw in empty clips and give them names, colour them, whatever. And then you can just select any of them and press P to wrap locators and start playing (or CMD/CTRL+L to set the loop without playing).

Also because you can have multiple note lanes, you can store other information here. Sometimes I'll have a "notes" lane, where I can put a red block and mark it "re-record this bit" or whatever the thing is I wanna remember.

I also sometimes put actual MIDI data on here, because it'll be a piano by default. It's a good way of just capturing an idea you have for a chord progression or melody even if you have nothing else in that section. Helps to keep things moving with the writing process!

Blocks Overhang; yeah this is a problem if you are using audio samples for drum hits. I guess the only way around that would be to trigger them from Mimic or any other sampler with a One-Shot envelope so it'll continue to play when the section loops.

Awesome idea- and yet another great example of what makes Reason, Reason.

[Billy+]

Yeah if only it had VST Midi support it really could be the best.

[Chi-Individual]

Having been a Reason ITB user since v2 circa 2002, I tend to find more shortcoming in newer DAWs than in Reason because the workflow is so burned into my brain. I’ve tried Pro Tools, FL, Logic and Studio One and found them all cumbersome, unintuitive and uninspiring in comparison. I don’t record vocals all that much so maybe that makes a huge difference. I just know I can get an idea out smoothly and quickly with Reason better than the others. And I hate floating VST windows.

I kinda look at Reason now the way someone may look at the MPC2000, SP1200 or ASR10. The limitations become its super powers once you find your own personal workarounds and make it your own. Yea updates and features may come over time but the way you work with it doesn’t change much(ex: DJ Premier with the MPC)

Now are there features I’d like to see, of course(clip launching, updates to old racks(Subtractor), more mixer emulations etc) but for me as someone who just makes music for myself and friends, I actually have everything I need truly. Anything more is just icing really.

[stillifegaijin]

There are no deficiencies. There is only your lack of creativity and lack of ability to work with the tool in front of you.

Daws are tools. None are perfect. Just like no musical instrument is perfect. Where you see faults I see challenges.

[bitley]

That's the way to use it Gajin! Sat with Logic X recently and went nuts as Reason is much much quicker to work with. Logic feels like an old Atari beast which they've kept adding to and never removed anything. Fantastic right? Well it's more complex than macOS itself and you can spend nine days building an arpeggiator in it. Why would you? It has autosampler which pukes down your drive with 8,664 samples sounding exactly the same and the autolooping is so bad I can hang myself. And the samples? You have to google for nine hours just to find them as Apple thought it was brilliant to store them in the system folders. Completely fucking unintuitive. I wish I never bought it. Reason for life.

[RobBarnett]

Yeah if only it had VST Midi support it really could be the best.

+1

[babydaddymusic]

Having been a Reason ITB user since v2 circa 2002, I tend to find more shortcoming in newer DAWs than in Reason because the workflow is so burned into my brain. I’ve tried Pro Tools, FL, Logic and Studio One and found them all cumbersome, unintuitive and uninspiring in comparison. I don’t record vocals all that much so maybe that makes a huge difference. I just know I can get an idea out smoothly and quickly with Reason better than the others. And I hate floating VST windows.

I kinda look at Reason now the way someone may look at the MPC2000, SP1200 or ASR10. The limitations become its super powers once you find your own personal workarounds and make it your own. Yea updates and features may come over time but the way you work with it doesn’t change much(ex: DJ Premier with the MPC)

Now are there features I’d like to see, of course(clip launching, updates to old racks(Subtractor), more mixer emulations etc) but for me as someone who just makes music for myself and friends, I actually have everything I need truly. Anything more is just icing really.

Love this, and I think you are spot on. I can't put Reason down!

[bitley]

Oh no they must never change Subtractor I love it.

[Chi-Individual]

Oh no they must never change Subtractor I love it.

I was just using that as an example. I too love Subtractor, though a paint touch up wouldn’t hurt. I’ve always wanted to see it in like a midnight blue color. But anyway, there are some racks that can do with some updates. And can we please get some of the Kong units as half racks. I still believe in half racks and those should’ve been new additions ages ago to avoid having to use Kong just for one unit.

[bitley]

That's a cool idea for a Combinator remake

[kitekrazy]

More features often mean more distractions.

If one never used a DAW before Cubase is one that doesn't look so inviting. So many DAWs have these annoying menus before you get started.

One should go look up youtube videos when music was created with Reason 4 o 5. An inexperienced user should be impressed.

Too often we treat DAWs like religions. We have so many things to impress our DAW buddies while the average listener doesn't care.

[Popey]

Although my experience is limited to reason, live and studio one I kinda feel all of them in their own unique way have deficiencies although I also wonder if these are not deficiencies but instead just nice to haves applicable to each daw. Studio one allows you to apply a fx to just one midi clip/audio clip which is dope, I tend to use reason time stretching as it's dope, lives clip launching and ability to recall midi when jamming is dope.

I just think there is no best overall, just what's best for you personally

[robussc]

Oh no they must never change Subtractor I love it.

I feel back in love with it when I built a "SuperTractor" combinator that bundled it with a JUN-6 chorus, Ripley Delay and RPG-8. So many of the patches really came to life.

[bitley]

Yes exactly, a great way to lower the ride & add cooler wheels