Synapse The Legend HZ

[dvdrtldg]

Probably worth mentioning in this thread that Synapse are currently having a quick RE sale, with Obsession at 50% off and some other good deals

[Despondo]

I shared that above
But nice to share the picture!

Oopsie! My bad.

[SebAudio]

I'm just offering an idea while considering a dev's decision to not use a page on the front panel in the first place.

I don’t see the point of having at rear side what should be on a front panel. It’s very crowded and bland at the rear. Worse than with the vst version and not in « reason way ». Apart from accessing it with the tab key…

[TritoneAddiction]

Having watched a few preset demo videos of this synth I get the impression that there's been a lot of focus on sequenced (rhythmic and melodic) presets. It also seems a lot of them are aimed at film score type of sounds with HUGE sounds drenched in a ton of reverb and effects. Is this assessment correct?
While these type of sounds sound cool and impressive on their own I rarely find these kind of presets useful in my own music making.
Can anyone who actually have tried Legend HZ comment on the included pathes? What are they like?

[joeyluck]

Having watched a few preset demo videos of this synth I get the impression that there's been a lot of focus on sequenced (rhythmic and melodic) presets. It also seems a lot of them are aimed at film score type of sounds with HUGE sounds drenched in a ton of reverb and effects. Is this assessment correct?
While these type of sounds sound cool and impressive on their own I rarely find these kind of presets useful in my own music making.
Can anyone who actually have tried Legend HZ comment on the included pathes? What are they like?

I would say that the best thing to do is to take the trial for a spin. It's very versatile.

There are a good number of the patches that are rhythmic/sequenced patches, which I find fun and inspiring, but as Kevin Schroeder said in the interview:
"I love sequences, as I’m sure you’ll realize. However, you can switch off the arpeggiator at any time and then you can play it freely."

The same can be done with effects—both the Arp switch and Effects switches are conveniently located at the top, just below the patch display. The effects are top notch, but this synth also stands on its own without effects.

And the patches of the original are included as well.

[selig]

Pretty sure that won’t pass acceptance or otherwise why not just allow automation on rear panel controls?
An option would be to have an alternate front panel that has all the back panel controls and IS accessible, something that’s been possible to do since ‘tabs’ were added.
Also not sure you can have a “tab to nowhere” so to speak, so that’s two possible strikes against your suggestion. I assume this would have been done by now if it’s possible but who knows…

My suggestion wouldn't include a tab to nowhere, like I had said it would include no tab.

That is a difference without a distinction. A ‘tab to nowhere’ is not possible any more than whatever it is you are suggesting, it was just an expression. You can download the SDK and find out for yourself if you’re curious.

My point is that for whatever reasons they have chosen to restrict the rear panel, and I don’t think there is some “clever” way to evade their restrictions since they are the final arbiter in these cases. The other cases you mentioned don’t make sense, it was known by all devs these things would be possible with the new SDK at the time (there was no question in the dev world, but like in this case there are always non devs speculating).

[joeyluck]

The other cases you mentioned don’t make sense

What other cases don't make sense? I gave ABL3 and Valley Plateau as examples that mirror controls and make it possible to automate those controls on the back panel. You can even option-click on them from the back panel. Take them for a spin if you haven't already.

[SebAudio]

Having watched a few preset demo videos of this synth I get the impression that there's been a lot of focus on sequenced (rhythmic and melodic) presets. It also seems a lot of them are aimed at film score type of sounds with HUGE sounds drenched in a ton of reverb and effects. Is this assessment correct?
While these type of sounds sound cool and impressive on their own I rarely find these kind of presets useful in my own music making.
Can anyone who actually have tried Legend HZ comment on the included pathes? What are they like?

I’ve been demoing the vst version from several months and can confirm your impression. But all the presets are not embedded in the demo and they seem to focus on what makes HZ add to the original Legend. Since all The Legend presets are included with the HZ version, it’s obvious « minimoog » sounds are there.
I haven’t pulled the trigger for now because « cinematic » sounds are « blocking » me and I’m not ready to pay a higher price to use the original sounds. I’m thinking Synapse has stopped selling the original because some people would stay / buy the Legend and not the HZ.

[selig]

The other cases you mentioned don’t make sense

What other cases don't make sense? I gave ABL3 and Valley Plateau as examples that mirror controls and make it possible to automate those controls on the back panel. You can even option-click on them from the back panel. Take them for a spin if you haven't already.

No one in the dev community thought that those devices you mentioned wouldn't be possible, I think the folks you cited were not devs, correct?
I'm pretty familiar with the concept from 10 years ago when I released an RE which had a back panel control that is automate-able (because it is on the front also).

I guess the main point is that as I understand it, hide-able widgets require a control to "show" them (and to hide the other widgets), and as far as I'm aware you can't hide controls (and that's what you were suggesting, no?).
Also worth noting, RS reserves the right to reject a device even if it technically follows the rules. Just giving some insights that might not be obvious if you're not involved in the process.

[turn2on]

Logic in place controls at rear panel - add something not important. Many devs coming this way. Many years. This new synth also coming this way and this is absolutely clear (non automatable controls at rear panel).
What realised in ABL3, Valley - is simple duplication, that not make any sense as for today, as for 10+ years before. And also was been realised years ago in other products too

Easy to find early SDK times posts on dev forum by PH dev about all this

Concept of Reason - show automation only at Front Panel. This is logic, and SDK rules.
Make duplication of widgets for automatable properties at rear panel - is clear possibility of SDK. Here nothing new possible.

[joeyluck]

What other cases don't make sense? I gave ABL3 and Valley Plateau as examples that mirror controls and make it possible to automate those controls on the back panel. You can even option-click on them from the back panel. Take them for a spin if you haven't already.

No one in the dev community thought that those devices you mentioned wouldn't be possible, I think the folks you cited were not devs, correct?
I'm pretty familiar with the concept from 10 years ago when I released an RE which had a back panel control that is automate-able (because it is on the front also).

I guess the main point is that as I understand it, hide-able widgets require a control to "show" them (and to hide the other widgets), and as far as I'm aware you can't hide controls (and that's what you were suggesting, no?).
Also worth noting, RS reserves the right to reject a device even if it technically follows the rules. Just giving some insights that might not be obvious if you're not involved in the process.

It was other developers I had those conversations with and they believed it would cause a RE to fail acceptance. And then turned on it not to be the case.

But yeah, that's my suggestion more or less. It's all hypothetical and something I had thought about. It's not something I think is worth it unless it involves a dev who has a boatload of controls on the back panel and is against presenting them in a tab on the front page, but also wants them to be able to be automated, because otherwise, should just have those controls on the front. So are you saying it's entirely not possible to hide them or that you believe it would fail acceptance? Could continue this conversation in the RE SDK forum, if at all worth it. But even if it's possible, it's a pretty niche scenario for sure. The better solution might be to just request that back panel controls can be automated.

[wikholm]

Having watched a few preset demo videos of this synth I get the impression that there's been a lot of focus on sequenced (rhythmic and melodic) presets. It also seems a lot of them are aimed at film score type of sounds with HUGE sounds drenched in a ton of reverb and effects. Is this assessment correct?
While these type of sounds sound cool and impressive on their own I rarely find these kind of presets useful in my own music making.
Can anyone who actually have tried Legend HZ comment on the included pathes? What are they like?

Hej! Don't read too much into this, as I'm just a hobbyist who got goosebumps from the first Legend, once I picked it up at a discount. Combining my 25% off, for having the first version, with the ~32% introductory discount, landed me on about €97, for something not making me a single cent, but, well, what's a reasonable price for joy?

When the main news are more oscillators, greater polyphony, more effects, advanced envelopes and an arpeggiator/sequencer, in a project involving, and being demonstrated on video by, a film score grandmaster, it is perhaps not surprising that many of the factory sounds are cinematic in nature. And yes, though I think most of the presets sounds great, many of them might be better at selling synths than making regular music, whatever that might be. Personally I find them useful to learn about how to create complex sounds of my own, but then again, I tend to play with music more than I actually play music. YMMV.

Many of the factory sounds makes prominent use of the arpeggiator/sequencer. I did a sloppy count per subfolder of patches, and got this: Arp (35/35), Bass (13/36), Chords (0/1), Drums (14/14), Keys (0/8), Leads (0/19), Pads (0/20), Sequences (17/22), SFX (6/29) and Textures (5/18), for a total of 90 out of 202, whatever that might say. I'd say almost all of the Chords, Keys, Leads and most of the Bass patches, makes about 50 presets I think you could easily compose "typical" synth parts with as-is. The pads, while overall not the typical wash-of-something-stringy, could work well in the right context. That puts us at around 70.

The other 2/3 of the presets, I regard as mostly quite specialized. While all of them could work in the right musical context, and, I think, be absolutely fantastic where they do fit, I see them more as demonstrations of what the Legend HZ can do and/or lessons in sound design. That said, the Legend HZ can also load any patch for the old Legend, and, as far as I can see, the whole factory library for that is included, which gives you a few hundred (didn't count) more patches, a majority of which I'd call quite bit less experimental than the Legend HZ patches.

As of now the Legend HZ is quite CPU intense, and pretty loud. My DAW computer, made to be silent, has an Intel Core i9-10900 (with no letters at the end). It is a 10 core, 20 thread CPU, by default capped at 60W (and I've left it there) including the built in graphics. Loading for example "Bass Carpet RH" into both synths and playing one note (in 4-voice unison) at max velocity, consumes about 6% of my CPU using the old Legend and 12% with the new, which is also about 5dB louder, according to my old Flower Audio Loudness Meter, in "perceived" mode. Both synths, when quiet, idles at around 1%.

Loading for example "BP Strings IW" into both synths, shows a slight difference. It loads into the old Legend with its polyphony set to 4, which is probably to remain backwards compatible with older versions of the old Legend, but it loads with its polyphony set to 8 in the Legend Hz. Setting both to 8-voice polyphony and holding one note, at max velocity, consumes about 7% of my CPU using the old Legend and 11% with the new, which is also about 6dB louder. An 8-note chord, at max velocity, consumes about 11% of my CPU using the old Legend and 16-17% with the new, which is still about 6dB louder.

As the Legend HZ RE is at version 1.0.2 and still lacks the Audio in that Synapse Audio apparently says will come in an update, I think there might be room for optimizations, but the new Legend HZ synth engine likely will remain a bit heavier as there are more parts present, even when not in use. For now I'm glad I have both, and I'd be happy if they'd either start selling the old one again, to those "only" wanting a (polyphonic) Moog Model D, or, if that would eat too much into the sales and support for the new, bundle the old one, unsupported if necessary, as a low CPU option, when you buy the new.

Well, those are as many of my cents can I can think of right now. Sorry if I'm rambling, but with the introductory discount going away within one day of me posting this, I couldn't spend too much time polishing it.

[wikholm]

Oh... and one more thing. When playing a patch that actually makes use of the new features in the Legend HZ, the CPU load goes up further. Loading for example the, I think, fairly unassuming "Apparatus KS HZ" from the Leads patches, and playing four notes, once, in rapid succession, with the polyphony left at the default of 12, peaks at 27% on my CPU. Interestingly, letting the synth settle down and then playing the same four notes again, with the polyphony set to 4, "only" peaks at 14%, although no more than four voices were active in either case, so just having more, silent, voices available, seems to take a toll. This is consistently repeatable, so it's not a fluke either. In fact, merely turning the polyphony knob, causes the synth to briefly use up to 12% (14%, if I keep playing with the knob) without making any sound as far as I can tell. To some extent, this might be an artefact of their analogue modelling. The old Legend does something similar, but peaks at around 5% (6% if stressed) on my system.

[doze]

The best way at the moment for crossgrade if you have Legend already, is to get upgrade price from Synapse for VST, and then crossgrade to the RE.

[moneykube]

The best way at the moment for crossgrade if you have Legend already, is to get upgrade price from Synapse for VST, and then crossgrade to the RE.

yes> it was in my account as a rack within a day by doing it this way, and sending then them an email after purchase. The upgrade was 2 dollars cheaper than this current intro price and sale by reason studios. I like this option of having both the rack and the VST/AU... The patches I have checked all sound great.

[TritoneAddiction]

Having watched a few preset demo videos of this synth I get the impression that there's been a lot of focus on sequenced (rhythmic and melodic) presets. It also seems a lot of them are aimed at film score type of sounds with HUGE sounds drenched in a ton of reverb and effects. Is this assessment correct?
While these type of sounds sound cool and impressive on their own I rarely find these kind of presets useful in my own music making.
Can anyone who actually have tried Legend HZ comment on the included pathes? What are they like?

I would say that the best thing to do is to take the trial for a spin. It's very versatile.

There are a good number of the patches that are rhythmic/sequenced patches, which I find fun and inspiring, but as Kevin Schroeder said in the interview:
"I love sequences, as I’m sure you’ll realize. However, you can switch off the arpeggiator at any time and then you can play it freely."

The same can be done with effects—both the Arp switch and Effects switches are conveniently located at the top, just below the patch display. The effects are top notch, but this synth also stands on its own without effects.

And the patches of the original are included as well.

Yep it's always best to try it out yourself. But unfortunately I can't do that without breaking my current offline authorization. So that won't happen right now. I'll upgrade when enough good stuff tilts me over. That "stuff" includes both the upgrade itself but also new rack extensions I want to get.

It is true that one doesn't have to use the included patches as they are. Some things can be turned off or altered quite easily.

[doze]

I already had the Legend RE and synapse gave me the crossgrade to the VTS version for free, last night I bought the upgrade to the VST version of Legend HZ for £69 as I want the mpe capabilities

Email Synapse. They will give you a crossgrade to the RE of HZ. Really cool!

[joeyluck]

I would say that the best thing to do is to take the trial for a spin. It's very versatile.

There are a good number of the patches that are rhythmic/sequenced patches, which I find fun and inspiring, but as Kevin Schroeder said in the interview:
"I love sequences, as I’m sure you’ll realize. However, you can switch off the arpeggiator at any time and then you can play it freely."

The same can be done with effects—both the Arp switch and Effects switches are conveniently located at the top, just below the patch display. The effects are top notch, but this synth also stands on its own without effects.

And the patches of the original are included as well.

Yep it's always best to try it out yourself. But unfortunately I can't do that without breaking my current offline authorization. So that won't happen right now. I'll upgrade when enough good stuff tilts me over. That "stuff" includes both the upgrade itself but also new rack extensions I want to get.

It is true that one doesn't have to use the included patches as they are. Some things can be turned off or altered quite easily.

If you have the original The Legend and don't yet have the Modern Analog ReFill, that's worth checking out and it's on sale through today for $9. All patches by Kevin Schroeder.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/prod ... rn-analog/

[joeyluck]

Some other features I like that might be mentioned less:

• Toggling of Mod Matrix assignments. You can turn off/on a MM assignment by clicking on the number button for that slot. So there's no need to remove an assignment or set its amount to 0—just toggle it off and on. This is very handy
• The benefit of most REs over the VST counterpart is of course the CV connectivity. I've been having fun using the CV out of TLHZ's sequencer and MSEGs, combing the big sounds of its animated patches with other synths to make them even bigger

[joeyluck]

Some features I'd like to see:

• Position indicator in the MSEG. In the VST, a dot follows along the envelope to show its position. This currently isn't displayed in the RE version. Not sure if it's planned and if it was just trickier to implement in the RE, but would be nice to have. Even if not the same as the VST, maybe even just a dot that moves across the top, sequencer style. It would be helpful when drawing and setting a speed for an MSEG to have some visual feedback of the position.
• Another setting for the Effects On/Off? This isn't completely necessary, but would be one of those nice-to-have features. Like the other Synapse REs, I like that you can easily toggle all the effects off and on from the front panel. However with TLHZ, 9 times out of 10 (maybe 10 times out of 10) if a patch has the Compressor engaged, the Compressor is necessary These sounds are big and as mentioned by others, this version is louder. Maybe the Effects switch could be made into a 3-stage toggle? So essentially what it is now with settings for All Effects On and Off, and then another stage added in the middle that just toggles off the Phaser, Chorus, Reverb, and Delay (but leaves on the Fixed Filter Bank and Compressor). The Fixed Filter Bank is another I feel I'd leave on most of the time. I'm usually just looking to toggle off the others.

[ambi]

Some features I'd like to see:

• Position indicator in the MSEG. In the VST, a dot follows along the envelope to show its position. This currently isn't displayed in the RE version. Not sure if it's planned and if it was just trickier to implement in the RE, but would be nice to have. Even if not the same as the VST, maybe even just a dot that moves across the top, sequencer style. It would be helpful when drawing and setting a speed for an MSEG to have some visual feedback of the position.

It does not have that? That's sad to hear. That indicator is pretty important IMHO. A bug? Performance issues maybe?

[joeyluck]

Some features I'd like to see:

• Position indicator in the MSEG. In the VST, a dot follows along the envelope to show its position. This currently isn't displayed in the RE version. Not sure if it's planned and if it was just trickier to implement in the RE, but would be nice to have. Even if not the same as the VST, maybe even just a dot that moves across the top, sequencer style. It would be helpful when drawing and setting a speed for an MSEG to have some visual feedback of the position.

It does not have that? That's sad to hear. That indicator is pretty important IMHO. A bug? Performance issues maybe?

All I know is that I'm not seeing it. Not sure the reason why. If it's complicated to implement in the RE the same way it is in the VST, I think something like in the envelope sections of Europa and Grain with a little arrow at the top that moves along to show the position would be perfectly fine.

[Loque]

The Legend HZ got a strong CPU performance update.

Thanks Joey for contacting Richard and thanks Richard for the quick fix

Now we just need to wait for the audio inputs.

[joeyluck]

The Legend HZ got a strong CPU performance update.

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't notice this one since it didn't appear in Companion and requires updating via the shop.

[Loque]

The Legend HZ got a strong CPU performance update.

Thanks for the heads up. I didn't notice this one since it didn't appear in Companion and requires updating via the shop.

Sigh... Not sure why this is still the case some times...