Assuming there's going be one, what you think is coming in Reason 13?

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joeyluck
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Post 16 Dec 2023

Well maybe they could merge/partner with a hardware company someday? With all of these other companies merging and joining forces under an umbrella, I like to imagine Reason Studios creating a collective with other Swedish companies.

Clavia, Teenage Engineering and Elektron could cover the hardware element.

Then there's Kilohearts, Sonic Charge, Klevgrand, Audiorealism, XLN, and more that make amazing and creative plugins. Those bundles would be insane!

Soundtrap could cover the collaboration aspect that we are missing with Allihoopa gone. Allihoopa and Soundtrap had partnered before to integrate Allihoopa. There's also Soundation which is another online DAW that already features Europa https://soundation.com/virtual-instruments/europa. Then there's Epidemic Sound for licensing music and also Amuse for distribution.

Would be cool to see some collaboration in general.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 16 Dec 2023

joeyluck wrote:
16 Dec 2023
Well maybe they could merge/partner with a hardware company someday? With all of these other companies merging and joining forces under an umbrella, I like to imagine Reason Studios creating a collective with other Swedish companies.

Clavia, Teenage Engineering and Elektron could cover the hardware element.

Then there's Kilohearts, Sonic Charge, Klevgrand, Audiorealism, XLN, and more that make amazing and creative plugins. Those bundles would be insane!

Soundtrap could cover the collaboration aspect that we are missing with Allihoopa gone. Allihoopa and Soundtrap had partnered before to integrate Allihoopa. There's also Soundation which is another online DAW that already features Europa https://soundation.com/virtual-instruments/europa. Then there's Epidemic Sound for licensing music and also Amuse for distribution.

Would be cool to see some collaboration in general.
I'm bookmarking all links/names. Together they merge beautifully with my R11, turning it into a pseudo Reason 13 Swedish Frankenstein Edition today :thumbs_up:
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SynthGang
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Post 16 Dec 2023

sehov wrote:
16 Dec 2023
scotward57 wrote:
16 Dec 2023
While adding sequencer features definitely wouldn't hurt, it would be delusional for any Reason user to expect that there will be some kind of "catch-up" to other DAWs. Not happening.

Instead, what should happen is having Reason integrated into some kind of hardware platform. Whether it's the development of their own MIDI/Audio device or something like a version of Reason that works in an AKAI MPC or whatever, that makes more sense.

Reason Studios has already surrendered the DAW war when version 11 was released. Their solution to appease the whiners for more DAW features was RRP. You can argue that RRP needs VST integration, but beyond that, Reason Studios has already answered the question.

You can disagree if you want, but I would say forget about a better sequencer/DAW. It's time for Reason to go into a true hardware direction!!
Complete nonsense, sorry. Don't take it personal please....
Yeah I can't help but agree here... the idea that going in the hardware direction is somehow going to me more profitable is just nonsense (@scotward57, also please do not take this personally, no intention to personally attack you here in any way shape or form). There are many features myself and a whole litany of this site's other users have gone over that highlight a lot of ideas which, in my albeit uninformed non-developer view, should be relatively straightforward to implement.

Hardware has a far higher barrier to entry in terms of cost, and I would argue a far smaller user base - this idea just isn't the one my friend.

Also, the idea that the DAW wars are somehow over is just flat-out wrong given how many companies are laying out their bets right now and diving deeper into the fray. Ableton, FL, Presonus Studio One have all implemented a ton of really cool features that are clearly designed to compete and capture market share. I truly believe Reason is sitting on a gold mine of yet unexploited software potential.

The problem is their devs seem too happy to tinker away endlessly with new instruments. That's great and all, but they need to continue to innovate the platform itself - they've certainly done it before.

As an example off the top of my head is the pitch-correction being baked in to the sequencer - this was huge (although Studio One has one-upped them and done the same only polyphonic).

A lot of the stuff people are asking for is really just super basic: track markers, track comments, editing functionality, crossfade options, file compatibility, auto-saving and **cough** offline authorization - none of this is asking for the moon.

It really is time for the devs put on their big boy pants, put down the colouring crayons and put some serious work in.

scotward57
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Post 16 Dec 2023

No I don't take anything personal with criticism towards my take on the matter. The ones who would criticize a hardware direction are most likely heavily invested into Reason as a DAW. Yet it's been a very long time since I've seen a single feature request from any Reason user that can't already be found in another DAW. And the company itself has already stated in several interviews that it has no interest in going in the same direction of other DAWs. Why would they?

So since the introduction of RRP in v.11, I'm sure they have picked up customers of other DAWs as well as former Reason users who wanted VST/AU/AAX integration. Not so sure about Reason companion and the whole sound pack/social media schtick. Personally I find sound packs and the marketing of them cheesy. But anyway my point is that if Reason Studios thought the Companion thing was the key to the future, I feel sorry for them.

So I come from the assumption that surrendering the DAW war made perfect sense, the RRP thing makes sense, the social media thing, while cute, is a "side gig" and not something that will attract enough customers in the long run. So where does that leave Reason Studios for the future?

I believe that adding more DAW features in and of itself will NOT woo enough new customers for the long term future. It just won't. I've spent enough time with Logic and RRP to know it's no contest. Of course I do like a few things in the Reason sequencer like the Pitch Edit and time stretching and the Regroove Mixer. But most of the time, I end up learning to do same or similar things in Logic and end up using that more. And I've heard the same thing over and over with Ableton users.

The bread and butter of Reason Studios is the Rack and the fake hardware paradigm. That is the strength and identity of the product. Why not build on that? Anything that could bring us even closer to the hardware experience with Reason devices!! Like I said, it could be a dedicated Reason MIDI controller, integration into a hardware platform, etc. Focus on improving the hardware experience and bringing us closer to Reason devices!!

sehov
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Post 17 Dec 2023

scotward57 wrote:
16 Dec 2023
The bread and butter of Reason Studios is the Rack and the fake hardware paradigm. That is the strength and identity of the product. Why not build on that? Anything that could bring us even closer to the hardware experience with Reason devices!! Like I said, it could be a dedicated Reason MIDI controller, integration into a hardware platform, etc. Focus on improving the hardware experience and bringing us closer to Reason devices!!
Why? Because they did! The last years they nearly ONLY invested in the rack, which is super cool and fancy but on the other side they pushed away the serious producers and musicans. Serious DAW features attract professional, serious musicans. In the end you only need one synth, a delay and a reverb to make good music. A DAW is more some kind of an organizer for arranging tracks - this part needs investment now, because its indeed a gold mine. They just need to add some basic DAW features for the start and restore the reputation of the all in one unique reason DAW (which they ruined over the last years).

sehov
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Post 17 Dec 2023

sehov wrote:
17 Dec 2023
scotward57 wrote:
16 Dec 2023
The bread and butter of Reason Studios is the Rack and the fake hardware paradigm. That is the strength and identity of the product. Why not build on that? Anything that could bring us even closer to the hardware experience with Reason devices!! Like I said, it could be a dedicated Reason MIDI controller, integration into a hardware platform, etc. Focus on improving the hardware experience and bringing us closer to Reason devices!!
Why? Because they did! The last years they nearly ONLY invested in the rack, which is super cool and fancy but on the other side they pushed away the serious producers and musicans. Serious DAW features attract professional, serious musicans. In the end you only need one synth, a delay and a reverb to make good music. A DAW is more some kind of an organizer for arranging tracks - this part needs investment now, because its indeed a gold mine. They just need to add some basic DAW features for the start and restore the reputation of the all in one unique reason DAW (which they ruined over the last years).
With "ruined" I mean the reputation of the DAW in the world of producing - not Reason itself. Reason is already great.

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dvdrtldg
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Post 17 Dec 2023

Some of you guys have a very limited idea of what a DAW is supposed to be

It's like in your minds there's this Platonic archetype of the Perfect DAW, and it has a list of 100 specific features that you can name, and every DAW is judged according to how close it comes to the archetype

95/100 features? that's a good DAW. 37/100 features? that's a bad DAW. And so on

Maybe you should think about DAWs like musical instruments. Nobody gets the shits with a vintage Fender Stratocaster because it doesn't have humbuckers. People buy Strats because they like the design and the tone and they like playing within the range of possibilities that this particular guitar offers. Nobody buys a Strat and then complains because they can't make it sound like a Les Paul. Well, some of you might, but I don't

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zoidkirb
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Post 17 Dec 2023

The RRP was over 4 years ago and RS haven't improved that since. So yeah probably due for some updates there.
Cubase 12 and Ableton 12 both have fancy new tools to map your own hardware and customize it. The new Performer in Live even lets you create toggle buttons and horizontal faders!
I don't think RS need to be going down the path of partnering with specific hardware companies when they instead could let the Combinator 2 and remote mapping system live up to their full potential, and let people use whatever hardware they already have.

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Re8et
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Post 18 Dec 2023

An AI assistant that dances on a metronome pole that you can feed regroove patches, renamed in smth more fancy, and also has a small chat window where to ask her questions, to which she might answer in one of several synthesized voices, possibly not Attenborough, or just sing a lyric text in the new MIDI and TEXT clip available in the sequencer. Gender not specified.
F-IW4Z1W8AAXYyu.jpeg
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Re8et
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Post 18 Dec 2023

Oopa, wrong pic.

desktop-wallpaper-jennifer-lopez-showed-off-her-pole-dancing-skills-during-shakira-super-bowl-544988074.jpg
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sehov
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Post 18 Dec 2023

Come on people, please don't flood this thread again with hundrets of consecutive ironic, sarcastic or meaningless posts...

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dakta
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Post 18 Dec 2023

I don't really know how to answer this, because I would like to see continued development - BUT - reasons floated my boat since R2 and there's nothing specific I can think that need that I couldn't get done today. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough.

They continue to fix bugs - that's great, new devices - technically not an update but keeps things fresh and stuff to play with (I tend to get most of my song ideas when playing with something new), and they've covered already the biggest hurdle - vst support.

There may be better ways to do things, or more you can do or faster, no idea it seems quite good to me as it is. In the main just keep squashing those bugs.

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Re8et
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Post 18 Dec 2023

motuscott wrote:
02 Dec 2023
MIDI record that loops w/o recording over previous take.
A droid can dream, can't they?
Actually it can't even record a player device MIDI without the send to track option...
problem is, it's not possible to assign a midi track to a player track...
A one shot midi take you mean? Would be useful...

lots to do...

Here subtractor receives player midi but no midi is rec.
Maybe it needs a player to sequencer midi translator device... idk...
seq.jpg
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bxbrkrz
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Post 18 Dec 2023

sehov wrote:
18 Dec 2023
Come on people, please don't flood this thread again with hundrets of consecutive ironic, sarcastic or meaningless posts...
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dezma
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Post 18 Dec 2023

I'm hoping for a V2 of the MC-1 more cowbell. Imagine it having pitch control

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Loque
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Post 18 Dec 2023

Re8et wrote:
18 Dec 2023
motuscott wrote:
02 Dec 2023
MIDI record that loops w/o recording over previous take.
A droid can dream, can't they?
Actually it can't even record a player device MIDI without the send to track option...
problem is, it's not possible to assign a midi track to a player track...
A one shot midi take you mean? Would be useful...

lots to do...

Here subtractor receives player midi but no midi is rec.
Maybe it needs a player to sequencer midi translator device... idk...

seq.jpg
The Player modifies the MIDI from the instrument. That's why...

And you should be able to record it via a trick with CVPT and MIDI loop back.
Reason12, Win10

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selig
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Post 18 Dec 2023

Re8et wrote:
18 Dec 2023
Actually it can't even record a player device MIDI without the send to track option...
problem is, it's not possible to assign a midi track to a player track...
A one shot midi take you mean? Would be useful...

lots to do...

Here subtractor receives player midi but no midi is rec.
Maybe it needs a player to sequencer midi translator device... idk...

seq.jpg
Allow me to introduce you to the DIRECT RECORD switch at the top of the Player stack.
It does exactly what you'd think it does, which is what you are asking for if I'm not totally mistaken.
Selig Audio, LLC

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Loque
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Post 18 Dec 2023

selig wrote:
18 Dec 2023
Re8et wrote:
18 Dec 2023
Actually it can't even record a player device MIDI without the send to track option...
problem is, it's not possible to assign a midi track to a player track...
A one shot midi take you mean? Would be useful...

lots to do...

Here subtractor receives player midi but no midi is rec.
Maybe it needs a player to sequencer midi translator device... idk...

seq.jpg
Allow me to introduce you to the DIRECT RECORD switch at the top of the Player stack.
It does exactly what you'd think it does, which is what you are asking for if I'm not totally mistaken.
Overlooked it lol. Well, I never needed it. Thanks for the hint.
Reason12, Win10

avasopht
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Post 18 Dec 2023

There's an uncomfortable truth we have to confront.

DAWs don't really need any upgrades beyond maintenance.

How we've all been bamboozled into demanding upgrades for us to pay for every year or two is beyond me.

I've made the mistake of thinking my music would be better if I got this or that.

So I got this and that and found another uncomfortable truth.

After a year of working in Logic Pro with Komplete Ultimate, I found myself returning to Reason.

It turns out that I can get my sound from Reason Refills I bought over 15 years ago.

I wouldn't have any difficulty doing the same with an old version of Cubase.

I've also spent the last year working almost exclusively on my MPC in standalone mode (so no access to my VSTs). While my VST sounds and what I have in Reason is great, it doesn't matter.

---

I'm sure there'll be a new version of Reason because there's just about enough demand for it.

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guitfnky
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Post 18 Dec 2023

that is the most ridiculous take I’ve seen yet on this site, and that’s really saying something. 🤡
I write music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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NoiseCrime
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Post 18 Dec 2023

scotward57 wrote:
16 Dec 2023
While adding sequencer features definitely wouldn't hurt, it would be delusional for any Reason user to expect that there will be some kind of "catch-up" to other DAWs. Not happening.

Reason Studios has already surrendered the DAW war when version 11 was released. Their solution to appease the whiners for more DAW features was RRP. You can argue that RRP needs VST integration, but beyond that, Reason Studios has already answered the question.
As a returning Reason 8 user this is disappointing to hear, assuming it is an accurate assessment of Reason Studios. For me the jump to Reason 12 had a bunch of great features (vst) and synths that I was really happy with. However whilst getting back into the whole scene and watching online video's I kept seeing how dated the DAW and sequencer specifically has become. Its not just 'cool features' that are missing but very basic 'quality of life' (QOL) stuff that affect ones ability to work efficiently.

It puzzles me, as while I could understand the main devs at RS might prefer to just play with creating interesting synths or players, it would only need a single new dev hire interested in front-end UI development to address so much stuff in just a matter of months! Just imagine every couple of months getting a new dot release that has half a dozen or more improvements to the sequencer. It might not be fancy new snyths but it if you hit the right QOL its bound to energise the community.

If RS truly no longer care about the DAW, as opposed to just appearing to, then they should really just do a 'one off' investment in the DAW and make as much as it as possible mod-able. If I can't get my hands on the actual code, then getting access to some form of plugin api for the DAW itself would be the next best thing and it could allow the community to step up and at least address some of the issues. Alternatively they could just sperate the DAW from the features ( most likely already is for Rack extensions ) and open source it.

I guess overall it just pains me as a developer myself to see the basics of the application be so neglected. Sure it may not be exciting work to most, but there are devs who enjoy doing the front-end stuff that could fill the gap.

Sadly it feels like Reason is in the same state many other companies are in now (e.g. Unity ) where marketing tells them the only way to get new customers is with new shiny big ticket features ( e.g synth or players ) and everything else gets neglected.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 18 Dec 2023

NoiseCrime wrote:
18 Dec 2023
... it would only need a single new dev hire interested in front-end UI development...

... there are devs who enjoy doing the front-end stuff that could fill the gap.
In most companies, the devs don't decide what they work on, they get their marching orders from management. You can do what you like to do as a dev, when contributing to an Open Source project, or doing development in your own start-up, but that's about it. If your paycheck is signed by someone else, that someone else it probably the one who tells you what to do :lol:
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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Faastwalker
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Post 18 Dec 2023

MIDI channels. That would be nice in 2024 :thumbup:


.......... I elaborate in the thread below, where I couldn't quite believe this was NOT possible already in Reason;

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7532119


:exclamation:
Last edited by Faastwalker on 18 Dec 2023, edited 3 times in total.

avasopht
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Post 18 Dec 2023

guitfnky wrote:
18 Dec 2023
that is the most ridiculous take I’ve seen yet on this site, and that’s really saying something. 🤡
You know it's true. Just admit it! :thumbup:

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benjified
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Post 18 Dec 2023

The RRP and Reason+ are Reason Studios' bread and butter, so those will always get more attention. Creating new effects and instruments are always going to be thing to attract new and potential users. Maybe occasionally inspire the jaded, veteran user or two. I hope Objekt was a good a launch for them. I was watching some Ableton 12 youtube vids and there were lots of complaints about why Ableton was wasting dev time making new instruments and effects.

I have some hope that despite that, Reason Studios is working away on the DAW. Most ppl who have another DAW picked out are not likely to switch but RS could definitely tap the new user segment. They need a more competitive entry price though, maybe a free version that would steer them away from FL Studio and Ableton.

Sure it would be nice to please us, but we're more fickle.

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