SuperBooth 2023 Confession - Reason is for starting an idea

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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EnochLight
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Post 22 May 2023

Billy+ wrote:
21 May 2023
i wasn't insinuating anything, i was just surprised that the product manager said during a major trade show that Reason was more of an idea starter than i functional DAW moving in the right direction.
I think it's been fairly evident that Reason as a standalone DAW (BTW, it has been functional for quite some time) has taken a back seat to everything Reason (which is why both you and I picked up Ableton Live). Nothing to see here, and nothing surprising IMHO.
MattiasHG wrote:
22 May 2023
Though you might be reading too much into it and extrapolating my response... We put most of our effort into being about music making. That's been the case since 2001 and it's still our primary focus. We try to make sure that Reason is the software where you can very quickly get music going that lead to songs, and I think that shines through quite clearly in our products and design. I'm not suggesting Reason can't make awesome complete tracks nor am I saying we don't want to make a "functional DAW", in fact I don't say that anywhere in the video either.

The question was "who isn't the software for" and it would feel odd recommending Reason to engineers who works primarily with mixing, mastering, and post-production for other artists or similar. The people working with making a song that exists sound perfect (quoting myself here). They'd have no use for our instruments, Players or creative effects, all of which are a huge part of what Reason is. I'm honestly a bit surprised this could be considered controversial. :)
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Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 22 May 2023

DaveyG wrote:
22 May 2023
MattiasHG wrote:
22 May 2023
I'm honestly a bit surprised this could be considered controversial. :)
It isn't controversial. It's just Billy stirring things again. Best to ignore him really. :thumbup:
He did imply stuff very clearly and in a disingenuous manner tried to walk it back, while at the same time as he tried to walk it back he kept pushing the same false narrative.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 22 May 2023

My confession: I only buy the tools I need. Guaranteed happiness.
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aquil
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Post 22 May 2023

I've no problem that Reason DAW will not be a Video production or Mastering tool. Several other DAW's like Bitwig aren't them, too. Music production should be always the focus (Fast Workflow, Sounds etc.), give me the right tools to get my idea's done fast.

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Overtherainbow
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Post 22 May 2023

MattiasHG wrote:
22 May 2023
I really did!

Though you might be reading too much into it and extrapolating my response... We put most of our effort into being about music making. That's been the case since 2001 and it's still our primary focus. We try to make sure that Reason is the software where you can very quickly get music going that lead to songs, and I think that shines through quite clearly in our products and design. I'm not suggesting Reason can't make awesome complete tracks nor am I saying we don't want to make a "functional DAW", in fact I don't say that anywhere in the video either.

The question was "who isn't the software for" and it would feel odd recommending Reason to engineers who works primarily with mixing, mastering, and post-production for other artists or similar. The people working with making a song that exists sound perfect (quoting myself here). They'd have no use for our instruments, Players or creative effects, all of which are a huge part of what Reason is. I'm honestly a bit surprised this could be considered controversial. :)
I don't think one of the world's best mixing consoles is that terrible for mixing. And you can always create a mastering RE to help and inspire both the DAW and the RRP users and make the Reason package that much more enticing to new users.

In short, I really don't understand the necessity for this dichotomy.

I have a question, though, if I could abuse your presence on the forum a little - could we hope for QOL improvements that would benefit both the "DAW" and the rack users? Like a fullscreen mode? Or how about an LA2A?

I've been mentioning this in tickets and here on the suggestions subforum for years, but it was all ignored.

Thank you!
The Bad Ed
Last edited by Overtherainbow on 22 May 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 22 May 2023

MattiasHG wrote:
22 May 2023
... it would feel odd recommending Reason to engineers who works primarily with mixing, mastering, and post-production for other artists or similar.
Looking at professional mixing engineers (the actual famous ones) doing masterclasses on YT, and seeing them loading an SSL mixer strip plugin on EVERY channel of their DAW of choice (and they basically ALL do that), does make me appreciate the SSL mixer in Reason :puf_wink:

Reason is very capable of doing mixing/mastering, as I have no problem following those masterclasses using the Reason DAW. In several cases, as the one I describe here, there are fewer steps to perform in Reason, then what they do in their DAW, to get the same result.

So, Mattias, don't underestimate your own product :puf_bigsmile:
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crimsonwarlock
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Post 22 May 2023

Overtherainbow wrote:
22 May 2023
I don't think one of the world's best mixing consoles is that terrible for mixing.
You beat me to it by a minute or so :lol: :thumbup:
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EnochLight
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Post 22 May 2023

Overtherainbow wrote:
22 May 2023
could we hope for QOL improvements that would benefit both the "DAW" and the rack users? Like..
...like:
  • High resolution graphics/application zoom? Done.
  • Faster search? Done.
  • Search filters? Done.
  • General audio engine re-write that improves performance? Done.
  • Mac M1/M2 native silicon support? Done.
Just saying - they've been doing QOL improvements that benefit both Reason standalone DAW and RRP for many updates. But - I'm always game for more! Just wish we'd see some core Reason standalone DAW focus for a bit (VST3 support notwithstanding).
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Overtherainbow
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Post 22 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
Overtherainbow wrote:
22 May 2023
could we hope for QOL improvements that would benefit both the "DAW" and the rack users? Like..
...like:
  • High resolution graphics/application zoom? Done.
  • Faster search? Done.
  • Search filters? Done.
  • General audio engine re-write that improves performance? Done.
  • Mac M1/M2 native silicon support? Done.
Just saying - they've been doing QOL improvements that benefit both Reason standalone DAW and RRP for many updates. But - I'm always game for more! Just wish we'd see some core Reason standalone DAW focus for a bit (VST3 support notwithstanding).
Well yes, but I'm specifically asking about fullscreen mode and an LA2A. And then maybe a FET? Ryan has a stack of those in his room.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
22 May 2023
You beat me to it by a minute or so :lol: :thumbup:
Cheers! :D I thought I should type it out faster.

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visheshl
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Post 22 May 2023

Ok what i believe is,
please give us vsts inside RRP so that we can continue with other daws and RRP.
And then leave the devices to RE developers (already there are a ton of devices on the shop) and focus on sequencer improvements for a while...so that the DAW part of it has all the bells and whistles after a few versions...and its then as good or better than other DAWs...and then we RRP users can switch back to using Reason as our primary DAW.
Opinions?

avasopht
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Post 22 May 2023

If we could get RRP inside RRP as well, that would be incredible!

Imagine being able to have a combinator that has an entire rack of its own, which has combinators, which also have entire racks of their own, ... and on and on, ... until somewhere down the line are little racks bobbing around having absolute no idea they're contributing to an enormous symphony just beyond their veil of reality 🤯

What a wonderful time to be alive.

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joeyluck
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Post 22 May 2023

Overtherainbow wrote:
22 May 2023
Well yes, but I'm specifically asking about fullscreen mode and an LA2A. And then maybe a FET? Ryan has a stack of those in his room.
+1 for an LA-2A...or bugging Bandlab to republish the RE-2A. But a Reason Studios grade LA-2A that we can trust will stick around would be great :thumbup:

Is fullscreen mode something that Reason Studios has to do separately for Windows? On macOS, Reason has fullscreen mode. Do they need to do much other than tell Windows to allow it? Any potential quirks with Windows or reason that they wouldn't?

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visheshl
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Post 22 May 2023

avasopht wrote:
22 May 2023
If we could get RRP inside RRP as well, that would be incredible!

Imagine being able to have a combinator that has an entire rack of its own, which has combinators, which also have entire racks of their own, ... and on and on, ... until somewhere down the line are little racks bobbing around having absolute no idea they're contributing to an enormous symphony just beyond their veil of reality 🤯

What a wonderful time to be alive.
Yeah well i don't think its that difficult to exclude rrp from being loaded inside RRP...don't allow it simple...they know where they installed RRP, and with what filename or file details etc...they can simply disallow rrp inside rrp. I don't think its that hard... they've built an entire daw im pretty sure they know how to not allow a specific file to be loaded. And also to not show that file in the browser or the vst plugins settings.
Last edited by visheshl on 22 May 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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visheshl
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Post 22 May 2023

Also nested racks in Ableton is an amazing feature btw...use it, you'll know what im talking about...

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selig
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Post 22 May 2023

Reason has always worked incredibly well for me as a song starter environment, for 20 years now.
I hope that the focus on being an “idea starter” means (eventually) more updates to the sequencer…
Selig Audio, LLC

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joeyluck
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Post 22 May 2023

visheshl wrote:
22 May 2023
Ok what i believe is,
please give us vsts inside RRP so that we can continue with other daws and RRP.
And then leave the devices to RE developers (already there are a ton of devices on the shop) and focus on sequencer improvements for a while...so that the DAW part of it has all the bells and whistles after a few versions...and its then as good or better than other DAWs...and then we RRP users can switch back to using Reason as our primary DAW.
Opinions?
The Reason Studios REs are much of the incentive for Reason+ subscribers.

The REs in the shop are really great, but I would not want to be without Grain, Mimic, Objekt, BV-X, Algoritm, etc., and whatever else comes next :)

Third party RE devs continue to deliver great stuff, meanwhile Reason Studios still manages to bring us very cool stuff with their unique and innovative approach.

I think VST support in the RRP would be cool, but I don't follow the reasoning behind requesting that feature for the RRP and then asking them to stop making REs and focus on the DAW so then according to you, RRP users will use the DAW instead...so then why would they waste their time on VST support in the RRP?

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visheshl
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Post 22 May 2023

Well i meant it as a compromise situation, since my primary use of reason is using RRP, I'll be happy if they continue to add to the rack instead of focusing on the DAW and sequencer improvements.
But Because there are other people who use Reason as their primary daw and have been left behind by RS, i felt it would be nice of RS to give them those improvements. I can wait a while for the new revolutionary RS device...thats what i meant...

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EnochLight
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Post 22 May 2023

Overtherainbow wrote:
22 May 2023
Well yes, but I'm specifically asking about fullscreen mode and an LA2A. And then maybe a FET? Ryan has a stack of those in his room.
So more RE's? Gotcha. I've already got Softube's FET Rack Extension and Cakewalks RE-2A Rack Extension, so they're not exactly on my "want" list. As for "fullscreen mode", do you mean on a plugin/Rack device per-instance? If so, I can get behind that. Though messing with CV cables would be weird.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 22 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
I've already got Softube's FET Rack Extension and Cakewalks RE-2A Rack Extension, so they're not exactly on my "want" list.
But I don't have those, so... :puf_smile:
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EnochLight
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Post 22 May 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
22 May 2023
But I don't have those, so... :puf_smile:
If they released RE's of them for sale (or included in Reason+), would you buy them? If so, why not just pick up one of the myriad of VST plugin options available right now?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 22 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
If they released RE's of them for sale (or included in Reason+), would you buy them?
I would buy a good LA-2A RE without any hesitation :puf_smile:
EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
If so, why not just pick up one of the myriad of VST plugin options available right now?
Because I use the Reason DAW, so I won't have to use VST plugins :puf_wink:
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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EnochLight
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Post 22 May 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
22 May 2023
EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
If so, why not just pick up one of the myriad of VST plugin options available right now?
Because I use the Reason DAW, so I won't have to use VST plugins :puf_wink:
Pity - there's an amazing amount of great VST's out there, and Reason DAW actually supports VST now! :thumbup: ;) :lol: But I hear you - it's nice to just stay in the Reason-garden and just use RE's. Sometimes I miss that simplicity - my VST list is so long, it's almost unbearable (but then again, my RE list is just about as long)!
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 22 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
Pity - there's an amazing amount of great VST's out there, and Reason DAW actually supports VST now! But I hear you - it's nice to just stay in the Reason-garden and just use RE's. Sometimes I miss that simplicity - my VST list is so long, it's almost unbearable (but then again, my RE list is just about as long)!
I've been using loads of VST plugins in the past (in Reaper), but I've become allergic to pop-up windows :puf_bigsmile:

It is one of the reasons I moved to the Reason DAW :thumbup:

As for long lists, my RE list in the shop account is over 12 pages :lol:
-------
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EnochLight
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Post 22 May 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
22 May 2023
I've been using loads of VST plugins in the past (in Reaper), but I've become allergic to pop-up windows

It is one of the reasons I moved to the Reason DAW :thumbup:
I hear that. Ironically, I'd wager that if device zoom appears in Reason DAW proper, it'll have to be via pop-up windows. :lol:
crimsonwarlock wrote:
22 May 2023
As for long lists, my RE list in the shop account is over 12 pages :lol:
:o :shock:

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 22 May 2023

EnochLight wrote:
22 May 2023
Ironically, I'd wager that if device zoom appears in Reason DAW proper, it'll have to be via pop-up windows. :lol:
Yep, so I don't need device zoom :lol: :puf_bigsmile:
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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