How to use CV tools and another DAW?

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gkillmaster
Posts: 219
Joined: 09 May 2018

Post 12 Mar 2023

I can't figure out how to use my new Tonicmint CV tools bundle in Bitwig. Is there a Reason converter device to transfer CV into Midi CCs? Or is there a better way to handle this?

Thanks for any tips!

Greg K.

P.S. I an using Reason Rack VST plugin in Bitwig

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visheshl
Posts: 1162
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2023

Ok so i am presently not at my desk....but the midi out device lets you send CV data as midi CC. (,I think)

The problem is loss of resolution. Midi CCs were never designed to send data like LFO waveforms.(remember midi is a decades old standard)

So in a way Reason is not at fault here.

The new Midi Specifications should include a new form of hi resolution midi message which allows transmitting smooth waveforms (as in CV data) between midi devices or VSTs.

You can try connecting cv to the midi out device and setting it to send the cv as a midi CC.

It will do the job but it will be pixelated so to speak....hope this is helpful
Last edited by visheshl on 12 Mar 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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_andreypetr_
Posts: 117
Joined: 11 Aug 2021

Post 12 Mar 2023

You can convert CV to audio using Thor or Robotic Bean I/O bundle or CV Contour by Tonicmint and send that audio through one of 16 audio outputs
Last edited by _andreypetr_ on 12 Mar 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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gkillmaster
Posts: 219
Joined: 09 May 2018

Post 12 Mar 2023

visheshl wrote:
12 Mar 2023
Ok so i am presently not at my desk....but the midi out device lets you send CV data as midi CC. (,I think)

The problem is loss of resolution. Midi CCs were never designed to send data like LFO waveforms.(remember midi is a decades old standard)

So in a way Reason is not at fault here.

The new Midi Specifications should include a new form of hi resolution midi message which allows transmitting smooth waveforms (as in CV data) between midi devices or VSTs.

You can try connecting cv to the midi out device and setting it to send the cv as a midi CC.

It will do the job but it will be pixelated so to speak....hope this is helpful
Thank you! Works and I appreciate the tip! Yay!

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visheshl
Posts: 1162
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2023

_andreypetr_ wrote:
12 Mar 2023
You can convert CV to audio using Thor or Robotic Bean I/O bundle or CV Relay by Tonicmint and send that audio through one of 16 audio outputs
Interesting....hmmm...and how do you convert it back to CV...i assume that would be left to the DAW to handle?


Unless the sender is RRP but the receiver is also another RRP.....in that case how do you convert the audio signal back to CV in the other RRP? Could you enlighten me a little on this ?
Last edited by visheshl on 12 Mar 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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_andreypetr_
Posts: 117
Joined: 11 Aug 2021

Post 12 Mar 2023

Use Robotic Bean I/O or Thor
Reason Rack Plugin effect is the receiver via sidechain
Last edited by _andreypetr_ on 12 Mar 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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visheshl
Posts: 1162
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2023

Ok so theoretically one RRP in one DAW track could modulate a parameter in another RRP in Another DAW Track ? (Depending on the implementation of the DAW?)

Dude if this works in Ableton this is like having a new Rewire a better rewire....a set of seperate organised Racks of devices connected with a patchbay....
A neatly organised purpose specific studio....instead of one huge rack of interconnected devices with a mess of cables.

I am very thankful to you for the enlightenment.

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visheshl
Posts: 1162
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2023

gkillmaster wrote:
12 Mar 2023
visheshl wrote:
12 Mar 2023
Ok so i am presently not at my desk....but the midi out device lets you send CV data as midi CC. (,I think)

The problem is loss of resolution. Midi CCs were never designed to send data like LFO waveforms.(remember midi is a decades old standard)

So in a way Reason is not at fault here.

The new Midi Specifications should include a new form of hi resolution midi message which allows transmitting smooth waveforms (as in CV data) between midi devices or VSTs.

You can try connecting cv to the midi out device and setting it to send the cv as a midi CC.

It will do the job but it will be pixelated so to speak....hope this is helpful
Thank you! Works and I appreciate the tip! Yay!
Glad to be of help

User avatar
gkillmaster
Posts: 219
Joined: 09 May 2018

Post 12 Mar 2023

visheshl wrote:
12 Mar 2023
Ok so theoretically one RRP in one DAW track could modulate a parameter in another RRP in Another DAW Track ? (Depending on the implementation of the DAW?)

Dude if this works in Ableton this is like having a new Rewire a better rewire....a set of seperate organised Racks of devices connected with a patchbay....
A neatly organised purpose specific studio....instead of one huge rack of interconnected devices with a mess of cables.

I am very thankful to you for the enlightenment.
I don't understand this at all. But would like to.

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visheshl
Posts: 1162
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2023

Ok so could i use this opportunity to ask reason studios to build dedicated io devices within RRP that enable transmission of cv data between Different RRP instances(by automatically converting cv to audio and audio back to cv) this should be done in the background without informing the user...as far as the user is concerned, he connects a cv signal to the hardware interface in RRP, tells the DAW to send it to the other RRP and takes the cv out for the hardware interface inthe other rrp to modulate a parameter, ....dudes if you do this, it will be Gamechanger...and if you offer this in Reason 13, I am definitely upgrading...i will sell my stuff to get the money to get this functionality....

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1162
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

Post 12 Mar 2023

gkillmaster wrote:
12 Mar 2023
visheshl wrote:
12 Mar 2023
Ok so theoretically one RRP in one DAW track could modulate a parameter in another RRP in Another DAW Track ? (Depending on the implementation of the DAW?)

Dude if this works in Ableton this is like having a new Rewire, a better rewire....a set of seperate organised Racks of devices connected with a patchbay....
A neatly organised purpose specific studio....instead of one huge rack of interconnected devices with a mess of cables.

I am very thankful to you for the enlightenment.
I don't understand this at all. But would like to.
And i don't understand that you understand how this works yet you dont understand how beautiful this is....

Ok let me try....in the rewire days you had the daw with midi data in seperate midi tracks...you sent this data to to reason via separate rewire channels.
Then you connected the cables to reason devices which was basically one huge rack full of devices.
And generally you got the master output of reason back into the daw in a seperate track.

What was the primary advantage of this approach? As opposed to using separate vst plugins ?

Tha f'in fact that all the devices were interconnectable....you could shove a cv cable from one Synth into any other device and make it modulate it.


And what was the main disadvantage?

It was one HUGE pile of interconnected devices and cables..

I like my studio organised, thats why i like using seperate racks or devices for seperate sounds... i like to keep synths and effects generating different sounds in separate racks in my studio instead of one huge rack full of devices.

However i appreciate patchbays...which is the ability to keep devices neatly organised in different parts of my studio yet connect them sitting in the studio chair, the drum devices go in the rack near the drum booth, the vocal devices go in the rack next to the vocal booth. Etc....

But a CV patch bay allows me to connect these different racks in different sections of my studio easily, and make one sound affect Another sound...just like reason standalone.

Am i making sense here ?

In essense it is like having one reason standalone rack per sound or per track...yet being able to modulate parameters as if it is one single reason standalone rack....also another advantage is being able to use your favourite DAW with your favourite features....instead of yelling at propellerheads that i want comping...or i want track folders...i want XYZ feature...

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