Auto Punch in/Out

Have any feature requests? No promise they'll get to Reason Studios, but you can still discuss them here.
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DaveyG
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Post 25 Apr 2022

I'm a big fan of comping but mostly only for vocals and I use (cough) another DAW for it. Also in that other DAW I use auto punch to correct minor problems with instrument tracks, usually guitar. Anything more than minor problems and I prefer to re-play a whole section rather than try to fix bits of it.

So, yes, I'd be in support of adding it to Reason although we already know they are not planning many additions to the DAW side of things anytime soon.

And JohhnyBee, I recommend adding a few peeps to your "Foe" list on the forum. Click someone's name to see their profile and "Add Foe". You'll be able to see that they have posted and you have the option to read a post if you want but by default you are spared all the nonsense. It makes the forum a nicer place to be (or Bee in your case). Unfortunately it does not work on moderators :twisted:

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 25 Apr 2022

selig wrote:
25 Apr 2022
I'm feeling like you've both expressed your thoughts on this tangent, so it's a good time to get back on topic now please.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Apr 2022
I'll leave it at that.

JohnnyBee 67
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Post 25 Apr 2022

I think comping is a great feature in any DAW and I'm in no ways knocking it. I believe John Lennon had something to do with its creation. I use my DAW as a writing tool in that I don't have the entire lyric/vocal arrangement ready to go before I hit the record button. When it's time to add those elements I'll sit down at my work station with a pen and paper then establish a melody, figure out a couple of lines, do a few rehearsals then punch in and keep on hitting it till I'm happy it, then go on to the next section and do the same thing. If you're paying big bucks for professional studio time comping makes the most sense there because time is money and you'd better have all of your melody, words and music ready to go, but at my DAW, on my time I don't have to have everything ready to go at that time. I have all the free time in the world. Of course, it's not professional results but I don't expect it to be. To me, comping just creates a situation where I have to get all my lyrics and melody ready before I can even think about laying anything down then I have to clean up all of the takes I don't use. Frankly, I never understood why people in their own home studios put themselves through having to have everything fleshed out before they record (iow, the comping method), but to each his/her own. I respect everybody's choice to do what works for them. Forgive me the long post. but that explains why I don't comp. I love the concept and the feature and I appreciate the option, but pi/po works best for me.
JB :-)

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mimidancer
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Post 25 Apr 2022

JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
23 Apr 2022
I cannot believe that Reason has yet to come up with an easy to use Auto Punch in/Out. Home recordists need to use both hands to play their instruments. Almost every other DAW has an Auto Punch feature. Does anybody here perhaps have any inside info on if this will be offered any time soon?
Thanks

John B :-)
why not use a footswitch?

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bxbrkrz
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Post 25 Apr 2022

EnochLight wrote:
25 Apr 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
25 Apr 2022
Do you have punch in/out in Abelton Live 11 Suite? :puf_wink:
Fun fact: Reason had audio comping far, far before Ableton Live did! :puf_wink:
So the answer seems to be yes, and
I was jokingly referring to your sig, now that abelton has replaced studio one?
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

JohnnyBee 67
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Post 25 Apr 2022

mimidancer wrote:
25 Apr 2022
JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
23 Apr 2022
I cannot believe that Reason has yet to come up with an easy to use Auto Punch in/Out. Home recordists need to use both hands to play their instruments. Almost every other DAW has an Auto Punch feature. Does anybody here perhaps have any inside info on if this will be offered any time soon?
Thanks

John B :-)
why not use a footswitch?
I'm not sure there is such a thing for a PC based DAW, is there? Hardware workstations allow latch cables but how could you set up a computer for that?

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EnochLight
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Post 25 Apr 2022

bxbrkrz wrote:
25 Apr 2022
So the answer seems to be yes, and
I was jokingly referring to your sig, now that abelton has replaced studio one?
Ableton Live has replaced Studio One for me, yes. ;) I picked up 11 Suite on sale last year.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 25 Apr 2022

JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
25 Apr 2022
mimidancer wrote:
25 Apr 2022
why not use a footswitch?
I'm not sure there is such a thing for a PC based DAW, is there? Hardware workstations allow latch cables but how could you set up a computer for that?
My Tascam US-2400 has a punch in/out foot switch connector. I have no idea if that would work with Reason, as I have never used that option either (sorry if I offend someone with that statement :puf_wink: ) but I think it should work. My guess is that there are other midi-controllers with such an option as well.

I just tried this and this works: In Reason the record button does, in fact, punch in/out during playback, and the record button is MIDI-assignable. So if you have a MIDI-controller with an assignable foot switch, you can have a punch in/out foots witch that way.

EDIT: this will actually overdub the existing track. But if you cut the part you want to overdub first, it will behave very close to a real punch in/out.
Last edited by crimsonwarlock on 25 Apr 2022, edited 1 time in total.

JohnnyBee 67
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Post 25 Apr 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Apr 2022
JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
25 Apr 2022

I'm not sure there is such a thing for a PC based DAW, is there? Hardware workstations allow latch cables but how could you set up a computer for that?
My Tascam US-2400 has a punch in/out foot switch connector. I have no idea if that would work with Reason, as I have never used that option either (sorry if I offend someone with that statement :puf_wink: ) but I think it should work. My guess is that there are other midi-controllers with such an option as well.

I just tried this and this works: In Reason the record button does, in fact, punch in/out during playback, and the record button is MIDI-assignable. So if you have a MIDI-controller with an assignable foot switch, you can have a punch in/out foots witch that way.
My Nektar Impact 61 controller has a footswitch input for doing things like damper pedal functions. It might be worth a try. Thanks, crimsonwarlock. :thumbup:
:puf_smile: John B

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 25 Apr 2022

JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
25 Apr 2022
My Nektar Impact 61 controller has a footswitch input for doing things like damper pedal functions. It might be worth a try. Thanks, crimsonwarlock. :thumbup:
:puf_smile: John B
Just to make sure you didn't miss my edit:
crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Apr 2022
EDIT: this will actually overdub the existing track. But if you cut the part you want to overdub first, it will behave very close to a real punch in/out.

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mimidancer
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Post 25 Apr 2022

JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
25 Apr 2022
mimidancer wrote:
25 Apr 2022


why not use a footswitch?
I'm not sure there is such a thing for a PC based DAW, is there? Hardware workstations allow latch cables but how could you set up a computer for that?

I have a Keylab 61 MKII. It has several jacks for multiple-foot switches. I have not tried to punch with a pedal before, but later I will try to do so and will post back to let you know if it worked. Will also add instructions. If I fail. I will tell you I suck.

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QVprod
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Post 25 Apr 2022

JohnnyBee 67 wrote:
25 Apr 2022
crimsonwarlock wrote:
25 Apr 2022


My Tascam US-2400 has a punch in/out foot switch connector. I have no idea if that would work with Reason, as I have never used that option either (sorry if I offend someone with that statement :puf_wink: ) but I think it should work. My guess is that there are other midi-controllers with such an option as well.

I just tried this and this works: In Reason the record button does, in fact, punch in/out during playback, and the record button is MIDI-assignable. So if you have a MIDI-controller with an assignable foot switch, you can have a punch in/out foots witch that way.
My Nektar Impact 61 controller has a footswitch input for doing things like damper pedal functions. It might be worth a try. Thanks, crimsonwarlock. :thumbup:
:puf_smile: John B
It's midi. It will work. Just assign it to the Record button via remote override.

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guitfnky
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Post 25 Apr 2022

EnochLight wrote:
25 Apr 2022
bxbrkrz wrote:
25 Apr 2022
So the answer seems to be yes, and
I was jokingly referring to your sig, now that abelton has replaced studio one?
Ableton Live has replaced Studio One for me, yes. ;) I picked up 11 Suite on sale last year.
curious how you’re liking it. it replaced Reason for me (as a DAW), for most use, and once I ditched Session view, I absolutely loved it. oddly, I only use a few of the Suite devices, although they are great. now learning Reaper as well, which is it’s own insane ball of wax.
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guitfnky
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Post 25 Apr 2022

not sure who mentioned the auto punch thing not being useful if you play your part too early—that’s true, but in every DAW I’ve used it in (admittedly only a few), it’s always something you can set without necessarily snapping to a grid. I would typically set an auto punch as many milliseconds as I can ahead of the punch point to account for that. there are some DAWs that start recording ahead of the punch point, so you can still use the grid snap without losing anything (I believe Reaper is one).

the other cool thing about Reaper punching is that there’s a record mode that punches for multiple selected items—so if you want to punch two or three separate non-concurrent punches, it’s easy to set up. this kind of forward looking functionality can be more useful than comping for some users.
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EnochLight
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Post 25 Apr 2022

guitfnky wrote:
25 Apr 2022
curious how you’re liking it. it replaced Reason for me (as a DAW), for most use, and once I ditched Session view, I absolutely loved it. oddly, I only use a few of the Suite devices, although they are great. now learning Reaper as well, which is it’s own insane ball of wax.
It's good. I'd been using Live Lite for a while prior to buying Suite (Live Lite came with my MPC many years ago, and since picking up an Akai Force, it just drove it home even more). Because of the way I work on my Akai Force, I tend to prefer Session View to get most of my work done. I only drop into Arrangement View when I want to piece my song together. Session View just works better for my workflow. I tried Reaper - hated it. Just couldn't get inspired.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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guitfnky
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Post 26 Apr 2022

EnochLight wrote:
25 Apr 2022
guitfnky wrote:
25 Apr 2022
curious how you’re liking it. it replaced Reason for me (as a DAW), for most use, and once I ditched Session view, I absolutely loved it. oddly, I only use a few of the Suite devices, although they are great. now learning Reaper as well, which is it’s own insane ball of wax.
It's good. I'd been using Live Lite for a while prior to buying Suite (Live Lite came with my MPC many years ago, and since picking up an Akai Force, it just drove it home even more). Because of the way I work on my Akai Force, I tend to prefer Session View to get most of my work done. I only drop into Arrangement View when I want to piece my song together. Session View just works better for my workflow. I tried Reaper - hated it. Just couldn't get inspired.
yeah, Reaper is tough to get into--takes an investment just to get started, and that's not great when you just want to make music quickly.

I keep trying to use Session view in Live, but keep running into weird quirks that stop me in my tracks, and it ends up being more trouble than it's worth. one of the few things I miss is that it doesn't have intuitive structuring tools (like Blocks).
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https://slow-robot.com/
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Apr 2022

guitfnky wrote:
26 Apr 2022
one of the few things I miss is that it doesn't have intuitive structuring tools (like Blocks).
You can use regions in Reaper to (somewhat) structure like blocks. Also, position markers and navigation shortcuts might help.

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guitfnky
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Post 26 Apr 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
26 Apr 2022
guitfnky wrote:
26 Apr 2022
one of the few things I miss is that it doesn't have intuitive structuring tools (like Blocks).
You can use regions in Reaper to (somewhat) structure like blocks. Also, position markers and navigation shortcuts might help.
that criticism was aimed at Ableton Live, but yeah, I'm finding the regions in Reaper to be fairly intuitive for structuring so far. not quite as good as Blocks at this point, but that could be down to the fact that I'm still pretty early on in learning Reaper.
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https://slow-robot.com/
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Apr 2022

guitfnky wrote:
26 Apr 2022
that criticism was aimed at Ableton Live, but yeah, I'm finding the regions in Reaper to be fairly intuitive for structuring so far. not quite as good as Blocks at this point, but that could be down to the fact that I'm still pretty early on in learning Reaper.
Most people that use blocks (at least as I've seen mentioned) is to mark song sections on the timeline. That is obviously what regions are in Reaper so if that is what someone wants it's fine. However, if you use blocks as an arrangement tool, by actually putting stuff into blocks, then you walk into one of the big omissions in Reaper. Reaper basically does not have an integrated arrangement system. You can get something going with the use of several plugins, scripts, combined shortcuts (very powerful btw) but it will be a kludge of some sort. As I stated elsewhere, that's what I did before moving to Reason.

I did a write-up of my system in Reaper, it should be somewhere on the Reaper forum. If you like, I can dig it up for you.

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mcatalao
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Post 26 Apr 2022

crimsonwarlock wrote:
24 Apr 2022
I don't see why people think they need punch in/out. It is a relic from the past, invented to prevent the need for slice-editing real tape. The modern way to handle replacing small parts is comping. Even back in the day, you could do comping with multi-track recorders, but that would eat-up your available track count, so the industry came up with punch in/out. Comping is actually much easier from the perspective of the player, as punch in/out requires a perfect feel for timing (as you don't record anything outside the punch).
Actually, if you looked at how Auto Punch in works on other daws, you'd know that comping and auto punch in complement themselves. Also, your idea of a punch in is incorrect. There's nothing recorded out of the punch in, but the application manages the start and finishing of the recording, the player has the queue of his previous (correct) performance and plays on top getting the same "feeling" of the previous performance. In my experience from using the feature in other daws, timing, levels, expression, etc., are better retained because a full section performance various times on a cycle recording does not retain the same feeling on micro sections. And as I was saying, auto punch in and comping, complement themselves. As a matter of fact, after you punched in a small section on 5 or 6 takes, it's way easier to select the best take on a comp that was punched in than on a cycle recording.

There's a big difference between punching in, comping and cycle recording. But these complement themselves, and you can use them in your benefit (whereas for me punch in with comping is the most efficient way because you can start your editing on the recording session really quick and even involve the artist in the comping process and not have to bring him/her to the edit process)!

I also disagree with you about it being a relic of the past - even newer DAWs have it implemented right at release - like studio one, reaper or bitwig. IMHO, there's a big difference between it being a relic of the past to simply not being used by you. The fact is, and with all due respect, you just don't see the benefits of the feature. But as i respect the fact you think you don't need it, this old fart that used auto punch in Cubase in 2004, still misses it a lot.

Anyway, reason has everything in place for auto punch in to happen, it just needs the automation part. You just try a manual punch in (press record while playing with an audio track armed), and you'll see the following:
1 - Reason overdubs the armed tracks
2 - Reason commutes audio correctly between the previous recorded tracks and monitoring the incoming audio, just as other daws do
3 - Reason creates a new comp lane for the punched in section and ads q points
4 - Reason correctly starts and stops recording while playing

Adding to what I said, you can even add the automation part with remote overrides. I've had a pedal routed to the recording button for a lot of time. But with a pedal, pressing it when you're recording you might get a different performance (it happens, believe me). There is an interesting workaround that I've used too (, recurring to remote overrides, loopbe (a virtual midi cable) and the midi output device, automating the punch in and out. But then again it's a workaround and when you have multiple punch in takes it generates a bunch of q points (and if you try this with midi, it doesn't generate new lanes, which cubase allows you to select the daw's behavior, so you have a better consolidated punch in feature between midi and audio).

My point here is, punch in and auto punch in for more accuracy and self-recording, allows one to take care of errors right in the recording session. A good recording session, has the artist doing his/her stuff until it sounds right, and without auto punch in, you work blind because you need to know the whole take is ok or the lot of the takes have enough material for the whole song.
Last edited by mcatalao on 26 Apr 2022, edited 1 time in total.

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mcatalao
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Post 26 Apr 2022

guitfnky wrote:
25 Apr 2022
not sure who mentioned the auto punch thing not being useful if you play your part too early—that’s true, but in every DAW I’ve used it in (admittedly only a few), it’s always something you can set without necessarily snapping to a grid. I would typically set an auto punch as many milliseconds as I can ahead of the punch point to account for that. there are some DAWs that start recording ahead of the punch point, so you can still use the grid snap without losing anything (I believe Reaper is one).

the other cool thing about Reaper punching is that there’s a record mode that punches for multiple selected items—so if you want to punch two or three separate non-concurrent punches, it’s easy to set up. this kind of forward looking functionality can be more useful than comping for some users.
Yep, that's pre-roll. That's in fact the relic part of punch in, because with tapes the recording head would take time to be activated and moved into place, that's why you had pre-roll. With digital audio, there are no moving heads, and audio is always being fed to the daw, so it's not THAT needed though it can be useful to soften some passages on the q point's if needed.

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Billy+
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Post 26 Apr 2022

Is this any good


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mcatalao
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Post 26 Apr 2022

Billy+ wrote:
26 Apr 2022
Is this any good

This seems to be the technique i said in the end of my post. The one that creates multiple q points because loop be is very accurate and in the end the q points get multiplied in the comp editor. But it work. I've used it.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Apr 2022

mcatalao wrote:
26 Apr 2022
Also, your idea of a punch in is incorrect. There's nothing recorded out of the punch in, but the application manages the start and finishing of the recording, the player has the queue of his previous (correct) performance and plays on top getting the same "feeling" of the previous performance.
My idea is correct. And I did use it myself back in the day BEFORE we got DAWs.

If your timing is not tight, your punch will fail exactly BECAUSE the punch in/out points are set before you do the punch, and therefore fixed on the timing of your track. If your playing timing sucks (to put it politely :puf_bigsmile:), your performance will be cut by the punch points. Add to that the simple fact that overdubs are often done because of sloppy timing, and things get very tedious. Comping solves this problem because you can nudge the wanted parts into the correct timing. Something that won't work with a punch, specifically because you don't record outside of the punch in/out points.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Apr 2022

Billy+ wrote:
26 Apr 2022
Is this any good
That is close to what I described with an external controller. If you do this with a MIDI track, then it will overdub instead of replace. You can fix that by snipping the part you want to replace first.

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