Reason 12 has arrived

[joeyluck]

Here were a couple of my suggestions:

First, just making only the insert containers wider and making the wood thicker to accommodate. Then the inserts would just pop-out from that. In a world where devices can fold and these containers even exist, I think it would be fine to have it pop-out from the rack.


insert suggestion.jpg


The other suggestion would be filling the gaps along the line of what you mention.

On the left, an example of just making the rail wider. And on the right, an example of some other graphical thing, like venting, to fill space:


rack rail suggestion.png


The gaps bothered me, but it wasn't an issue for a majority of the testers. It didn't really come up. I've gotten used to it now I guess.

A border out past the wood would have been awful, vents at the sides don't really fix the increase width as they would still be dark enough to draw your eye. Plates at the sides probably wouldn't look any better. What really should have been a consideration was increasing the default zoom of the rack say 103% (arbitrary for the sake of example). Devices outside the inserts have the appearance of being larger, with zoom being a thing this would be an easy thing to do. When devices are then inside the combinator that is inside the insert the scale is reduced to 97% for those devices. Nothing lost.

Another solution would be either remove the mix channels border if there is a combinator inside or remove the combinators border or make both borders smaller by exactly half.

Basing it not being an issue for the majority of testers just because it didn't come up doesn't mean it wasn't or is an issue. You seemed to have had an issue with it as do I and others in this thread so it's definitely an issue. That's like saying some crash you come across wasn't reported by others therefor it doesn't need to be fixed because the majority of users who will not likely come across the crash are not affected by it. If they were not so strict with stability your crash would make it into a release.

The problem has a route cause though, so as soon as it was reported it really should have been back to the drawing board. If the combinator was not able to live inside the mix channel there would be no issues with gaps. All the new combi does is control programmed parameters which can be customised. Why these custom controls could not be added to a mix channel leaving its default 4 knobs and 4 buttons so it doesn't change the mixer is another overlooked solution. Nothing lost, everything gained.

No because you can put multiple Combinators in the inserts now. That is a huge improvement that was not possible before.

[AttenuationHz]

A border out past the wood would have been awful, vents at the sides don't really fix the increase width as they would still be dark enough to draw your eye. Plates at the sides probably wouldn't look any better. What really should have been a consideration was increasing the default zoom of the rack say 103% (arbitrary for the sake of example). Devices outside the inserts have the appearance of being larger, with zoom being a thing this would be an easy thing to do. When devices are then inside the combinator that is inside the insert the scale is reduced to 97% for those devices. Nothing lost.

Another solution would be either remove the mix channels border if there is a combinator inside or remove the combinators border or make both borders smaller by exactly half.

Basing it not being an issue for the majority of testers just because it didn't come up doesn't mean it wasn't or is an issue. You seemed to have had an issue with it as do I and others in this thread so it's definitely an issue. That's like saying some crash you come across wasn't reported by others therefor it doesn't need to be fixed because the majority of users who will not likely come across the crash are not affected by it. If they were not so strict with stability your crash would make it into a release.

The problem has a route cause though, so as soon as it was reported it really should have been back to the drawing board. If the combinator was not able to live inside the mix channel there would be no issues with gaps. All the new combi does is control programmed parameters which can be customised. Why these custom controls could not be added to a mix channel leaving its default 4 knobs and 4 buttons so it doesn't change the mixer is another overlooked solution. Nothing lost, everything gained.

No because you can put multiple Combinators in the inserts now. That is a huge improvement that was not possible before.

What exactly are you getting out of putting multiple combinators into inserts, being inside or outside doesn't make any difference. How is being able to put a combinator inside a mix channel an improvement? All it is, is a container now, not as if it wasn't collapsible before. I'm not too sure what part of the reply you are addressing with that response there is multiple things suggested. Have you bothered even reading it?

[gullum]

No because you can put multiple Combinators in the inserts now. That is a huge improvement that was not possible before.

What I could do before

Screenshot 2021-09-05 at 7.25.19 PM.png (628.67 KiB) Viewed 55552 times

Screenshot 2021-09-05 at 7.25.26 PM.png (648.61 KiB) Viewed 55552 times

[Loque]

...

I must miss something obvious here...What did you do, what you cannot do in R12?

[gullum]

...

I must miss something obvious here...What did you do, what you cannot do in R12?

thats the point I can use multiply combinators together with insert in 11 something joeyluck continues to say was not possible before 12, but what I can't do in 12 is save that bass amp and eq as insert

[Loque]

I must miss something obvious here...What did you do, what you cannot do in R12?

thats the point I can use multiply combinators together with insert in 11 something joeyluck continues to say was not possible before 12, but what I can't do in 12 is save that bass amp and eq as insert

Erm...you were aware, that there was no difference between an Insert and a Combinator except the look and the SSL controls? You could load/save them to each other. And in R12 you just can have multiple Combinators. If you like, call the first an "Insert".

Except i dont miss any (for your) obvious thing, they are completely the same. Really, a Mix Channel was a Combinator with some Mix controls for the SSL.

[joeyluck]

I made this combi backdrop if anybody wants to put it in the insert

Classic Insert Combi.png (154.81 KiB) Viewed 55493 times

[jam-s]

I made this combi backdrop if anybody wants to put it in the insert


Classic Insert Combi.png

Would be good, if it could make those knobs and buttons to also appear back in the Mixer (and no, only having those remote mapped later on after they fix it, does not give the visual feedback like it used to have).

[Loque]

I made this combi backdrop if anybody wants to put it in the insert


Classic Insert Combi.png

I like how lo-res you made the display

[AttenuationHz]

...

I must miss something obvious here...What did you do, what you cannot do in R12?

The glaringly obvious thing you're missing is what has been discussed for the last few pages. There is no longer a Combinator on The Mix Channel. Placing the Combinator inside the Mix Channel makes no difference, however removing the Combinator from the Mix Channel makes a lot difference.

[joeyluck]

I put all of my effects that aren't sends into the inserts. This is great for me to keep things organized and be able to find and navigate things faster.

So being able to hide them all out of the way and bypass all, without breaking combis is a huge plus IMO.

[gullum]

thats the point I can use multiply combinators together with insert in 11 something joeyluck continues to say was not possible before 12, but what I can't do in 12 is save that bass amp and eq as insert

Erm...you were aware, that there was no difference between an Insert and a Combinator except the look and the SSL controls? You could load/save them to each other. And in R12 you just can have multiple Combinators. If you like, call the first an "Insert".

Except i dont miss any (for your) obvious thing, they are completely the same. Really, a Mix Channel was a Combinator with some Mix controls for the SSL.

you mods seam to miss that not everyone is mixing with a mouse and I am fully aware that I can put combinators inside the insert and that it's just a combinator patch after all. I also fully understand and accept that 99% of the users on this forum are not using reason with mixing controllers like I do. But that does not make my points invalid when they are only not affecting you. Can I still save an insert like I did before ? No can I save my mastering like before? No Can I control my mastering and inserts the same? No
Could I use multiply combinators before? Yes Can I use multiply combinators now? Yes
so maybe sometime when they have implanted VST3 or fixed some other bugs I can get a workaround so reason works like it has worked the last 16 + years up until sep. 1. this year.

[gullum]

I made this combi backdrop if anybody wants to put it in the insert


Classic Insert Combi.png

so now we turn to bullying ?

[AttenuationHz]

I put all of my effects that aren't sends into the inserts. This is great for me to keep things organized and be able to find and navigate things faster.

So being able to hide them all out of the way and bypass all, without breaking combis is a huge plus IMO.

You could already do that with the combinator on the Mix Channel all you needed to do was drag the combinator into the Mix Channel, all devices uncombine.

[joeyluck]

Remote functionality is coming back though. All that we will have lost is the 4+4 macros in the mixer itself. That's the only clarification I've been trying to make.

You can still save and load .cmb patches into inserts (+ more than than the 1 .cmb patch before, + more controls than before).

I had neglected the 'Edit Inserts' button in the past. Now it's a part of my workflow. Where other software might have a pop-up window, Reason points you directly to that insert in the rack. And now, all of my effects can actually be in those inserts (and not combis living outside or broken-up combis inside).

So again, the only clarification I have been trying to make is that we only lose those 4+4 macros in the mixer view (aside from Remote functionality for now until the fix is released).

[joeyluck]

I put all of my effects that aren't sends into the inserts. This is great for me to keep things organized and be able to find and navigate things faster.

So being able to hide them all out of the way and bypass all, without breaking combis is a huge plus IMO.

You could already do that with the combinator on the Mix Channel all you needed to do was drag the combinator into the Mix Channel, all devices uncombine.

Exactly my point. Now they aren't broken. All that programming remains. We have MANY more macros to control and automate. I do realize we lost the 4+4 macros from the mixer and I understand that some people used those. But everything else around that was clunky before and those things have been fixed.

[AttenuationHz]

I made this combi backdrop if anybody wants to put it in the insert


Classic Insert Combi.png

so now we turn to bullying ?

Going to the trouble of photoshopping a combinator hoping or thinking it will be funny and somehow cause an insult is hardly bullying. Massive waste of time, yes.

[joeyluck]

so now we turn to bullying ?

Going to the trouble of photoshopping a combinator hoping or thinking it will be funny and somehow cause an insult is hardly bullying. Massive waste of time, yes.

No I actually made it in the past to help explain to others. Maybe someone else can help explain it better.

[gullum]

so now we turn to bullying ?

Going to the trouble of photoshopping a combinator hoping or thinking it will be funny and somehow cause an insult is hardly bullying. Massive waste of time, yes.

[joeyluck]

Going to the trouble of photoshopping a combinator hoping or thinking it will be funny and somehow cause an insult is hardly bullying. Massive waste of time, yes.

Wasn't a lot of trouble and took no time at all

[guitfnky]

the “what’s good for me is good for you, and I’m here to explain to you why that’s the case” attitude is super tiresome.

[Loque]

Erm...you were aware, that there was no difference between an Insert and a Combinator except the look and the SSL controls? You could load/save them to each other. And in R12 you just can have multiple Combinators. If you like, call the first an "Insert".

Except i dont miss any (for your) obvious thing, they are completely the same. Really, a Mix Channel was a Combinator with some Mix controls for the SSL.

you mods seam to miss that not everyone is mixing with a mouse and I am fully aware that I can put combinators inside the insert and that it's just a combinator patch after all. I also fully understand and accept that 99% of the users on this forum are not using reason with mixing controllers like I do. But that does not make my points invalid when they are only not affecting you. Can I still save an insert like I did before ? No can I save my mastering like before? No Can I control my mastering and inserts the same? No
Could I use multiply combinators before? Yes Can I use multiply combinators now? Yes
so maybe sometime when they have implanted VST3 or fixed some other bugs I can get a workaround so reason works like it has worked the last 16 + years up until sep. 1. this year.

Sorry, i still dont understand what you mean with "saving an insert" and where is the difference to a Combinator now... But hey, ok, i give up. YOU will not be able to do the same as before R12... I accapt that.

What i understand is the Remote thing. There is a fix coming as mentioned quite a few times, which hopefully sorts out a few things.

[AttenuationHz]

Going to the trouble of photoshopping a combinator hoping or thinking it will be funny and somehow cause an insult is hardly bullying. Massive waste of time, yes.

No I actually made it in the past to help explain to others. Maybe someone else can help explain it better.

So it was repurposed to deliberately cause an insult then, just goes to show your understanding of the problem and how it effects other users.

[gullum]

I'll stop after this but it seams that RS thought hey most people are not using the mixer like we intended them to so we just remove those controls

[EnochLight]

So it was repurposed to deliberately cause an insult then, just goes to show your understanding of the problem and how it effects other users.

It was repurposed as a lighthearted joke, and - shit man - I laughed. Has everyone's sense of humor just took a major shit lately or what?? We get it - people are raging that features were removed from the main mixer - hell - even I think it was a bad move and wish they hadn't done it! Jesus.