Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[KRS Music]

Now that I've got the blatant self promotion out the way let's get back on topic.

I think the subscription model is OK for users that want that, it's not for me though. It's too expensive (should be £9.99 per month) and I have everything I need with the £2000 I've spent since 2006 on upgrades and RE. Apart from a virtual John Bonham. Did I mention that?

I won't be jumping ship as they say, because the Reason I used last week is the same reason I'm using today. And jump ship to what? I don't know of any software that works quite the same as Reason, some of it's quirks are a major selling point for me and many other users.

I'm interested in buying Logic, but like everything in Apple's walled garden, I would need to upgrade my OS. And we all know that upgrading to the latest Mac OS is almost guaranteed to break some software. So I won't do that until the time comes when I know I can upgrade without breaking things that are not tied to the App Store.

I can see why users that go down the traditional licence path are worried - we all know the routine. Apple updates OS which then breaks software forcing anyone not selling through the App Store to 'fix' software that was working perfectly before the update. So if you think of it like that, It's not that Reason will suddenly stop working, it will stop working at some point (as all software does) because of an OS update. Now if Reason is continually updated in relation to the classic buy licence model, then this worry vanishes.

I have to agree with some of the previous comments regarding third party RE developers. Some of my fave plugins are third party REs and it does appear to anyone that looks at the website (especially noobs) that these REs are not even a thing. If you don't know your way around the shop and have prior knowledge it is so easy to overlook this side of Reason. And the thing about 'can't buy third party REs with Reason+' does nothing but harm to the brand image.

I'm off to go and muck about with Beat Map.

[Mint]

I'm off to go and muck about with Beat Map.

Love a bit of Beat Map...think I'll join ya.

[danc]

I’ve been toying with Cubase 11 trial, but the cost is a turn off.

I read in this thread that Studio One v5 is good... and I see they do a sub for £13.41 a month.. for everything...kinda looks like Cubase too

It’s very ironic that RS announce a Sub, and I consider a sub with another company. For me, I’d be gaining a huge amount of new stuff to play around with and can still use the RRP.

Maybe that’s how things are going? We don’t all stick with the same Gas and electric provider year.

I picked up a Studio One crossgrade for about £140 when they were having a sale on.

It is still available https://shop.presonus.com/Studio-One-5-Crossgrade - for $299 (not the bargain I received - JRR do it for $253.99) - you just need to prove you own Reason v10 or above.

[MattiasHG]

...

I don't mean to be mean, and I do take things personally when they feel personal—I'm often being referenced by name by people as making a bunch of calls and sometimes those calls are being described in a way that implies they were made out of malice. I think maybe we share that, so in that way I completely respect that you feel the same way and I'm sorry it came off that way,

For the record Player folding is definitely an instance where we should've done it and you were right, but we didn't have the time with the release schedule we had so it's a feature that had to be cut. I had arguments for why Players as RE was probably still good without it and that there were things we were working on that was more important to the users, but it did end up feeling like a hostile discussion to me. The guiding word being "feeling" here so I guess, once again, it comes down to that and it is indeed hard . It could even be that I'm missing nuances in English. But I am truly sorry if that hurt you. You're right , it's not easy to see both sides of things, at least we're clearly both passionate people which is worth something.

In the case of Quartet and Sweeper I just really wanted to make it clear, because I personally managed the products, that they are made in-house by us. Addressing that becomes quite hard if you say "you simply saying it isn't is not particularly convincing" and that we added Quartet to Reason "quite intentionally to piss me off". That's not true. That does come off as saying I did these things dishonestly or out of malice and in those cases I do take it personally. Maybe I simply shouldn't, it's sometimes really hard to separate person and role for me, so I'll go cool off instead. Sorry.

[clash482]

I've been a Propellerheads user since Rebirth. If I don't get ownership for Reason 12 and following or have to live with the risk of not owning a decent system at some point in the future, I will consider leaving the ecosystem.

[guitfnky]

But neither he nor I get a cent of Quartet, which RS also produced in Gorilla Editor, for pretty much no significant development cost just to quickly bump up the Reason 11 feature list and quite intentionally to piss me off because they specifically used the term "BBD", even though it's not a BBD. A BBD chorus is a chorus produced by using a BBD. Gorilla's IDL chorus module is not suddenly a BBD chorus because they've stacked four of them (which wouldn't really work well as they wouldn't be synced correctly). Or maybe they didn't even do that and it's literally just the basic 4-voice chorus module in Gorilla Editor with a couple of filters stuck after it. (Filters that, incidentally, are ... well, "buggy" would be harsh, but I had an exchange of views with uJam questioning their behaviour and I still think it's iffy ) So let's be clear: Quartet's use of the label "BBD" is intentionally misleading, to suggest it's the same style and quality of chorus as Chenille. It is not.

Look, I'm not interested in coming here being defensive or get into a deep spiral of arguing, we have very different opinions on many things and that's OK, but what you're saying here is simply not true. Both Quartet and Sweeper were coded by Peter Jubel in his custom DSP development environment. It has nothing to do with Gorilla Engine and takes no pre-made code for anywhere other than perhaps Peter's own stash of DSP code he's built during the years.

It's fine to keep hating and slander me personally. I've become a public person because I want to interact with the community (heck, we've had dinner once Matt!), so even though it feels really bad to get assigned all this made up malice, I've accepted I can't control that. But please don't resort to lies. It's not helping anyone.

so now that things have gotten to the point where we’re witnessing some sort of public animus (no pun intended) between RS and 3rd party devs, can we acknowledge that this announcement was handled spectacularly poorly?

I want nothing more than the success of Reason, and I don’t think R+ is a bad thing—but there’s no reason it should have been met with this much contention. you shouldn’t have to keep coming here to talk everyone off the ledge after every new announcement (this is at least the second time).

RS needs a better marketing strategy—one that takes into account not only the target audience of a particular announcement, but also the existing users. and that includes making sure the website isn’t set up in ways that suggest “we don’t care about you right now” to portions of the user base.

not expecting you to respond to this, but all I can hope for is that you see it, and you take it to heart, and take steps to make sure RS does a better job next time.

[esselfortium]

For the record Player folding is definitely an instance where we should've done it and you were right, but we didn't have the time with the release schedule we had so it's a feature that had to be cut.

Even if devs haven't created art for folded players on existing releases, it's not too late to make them foldable with a standardized simple folded UI

[easyrider]

I’ve been toying with Cubase 11 trial, but the cost is a turn off.

I read in this thread that Studio One v5 is good... and I see they do a sub for £13.41 a month.. for everything...kinda looks like Cubase too

It’s very ironic that RS announce a Sub, and I consider a sub with another company. For me, I’d be gaining a huge amount of new stuff to play around with and can still use the RRP.

Maybe that’s how things are going? We don’t all stick with the same Gas and electric provider year.

Cubase is Broken in 10.5 and the charge to 11 is a joke....

After going from Pro Tools, Reaper, Cubase I ended up with Studio One...It’s really come on in recent years and Version 5 with retrospective record is finalised things for me....I’m committed to Studio One now.

Presonus don’t charge for updates mid version unlike Steinberg and Avid....

They actually listen to their customers....for example I missed a promo deal on the Console Strip...one email to Presonus and it was in my account free. Support is top notch and the workflow just brilliant. I’ve jumped ship enough due to pricing , bugs etc...and realise now I’ll support Presonus. They deserve my custom. The Faderport 16 is a blast and even Softubes Console one is tightly integrated with DAW control. The best DAW is the one you know the best and have confidence in....I’ve never looked back....having Reason Rack too is a powerful edition to a Brilliant Daw....I highly recommend it.

[DecafDreams]

For the record Player folding is definitely an instance where we should've done it and you were right, but we didn't have the time with the release schedule we had so it's a feature that had to be cut.

Even if devs haven't created art for folded players on existing releases, it's not too late to make them foldable with a standardized simple folded UI

On the matter of folding and Players, there's an annoying omission with the way Players behave in the rack when minimised (I know, not quite the same as folding) that I've had to work around since their introduction.

I often will minimise all my rack devices but then duplicate the minimised device within the rack by using an alt+click and drag. Works great for cloning a compressor with a good setting to a different place in the rack, for example. I'd love to be able to do that with Players too but unfortunately when they're minimised, they don't respond to the alt+click and drag. Players have to be unminimised and only then does alt+click and drag work. An annoying oversight.

In terms of foldables though, I thought REs don't even have foldable areas yet within the SDK?

[Luxuria]

...

For the record Player folding is definitely an instance where we should've done it and you were right, but we didn't have the time with the release schedule we had so it's a feature that had to be cut. I had arguments for why Players as RE was probably still good without it and that there were things we were working on that was more important to the users, but it did end up feeling like a hostile discussion to me.

So because you couldn't make the original release schedule the feature had to be cut out all together? Come on dude. It's been how long since Players have been out? Still no update on player folding. The dark theme has been out for how long now? Still no dark SLL theme. It's been how long now since Scenic has been out now? Still no instrument manual.

What more important things were you working on? Alihoopa? Reason Compact?

You just don't get it. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WANT! WE DO!

[chaosroyale]

To be fair, the Scenic manual is just a .txt file that says "Put 2 Grains in a combinator and save yourself 99 bucks".

So because you couldn't make the original release schedule the feature had to be cut out all together? Come on dude. It's been how long since Players have been out? Still no update on player folding. The dark theme has been out for how long now? Still no dark SLL theme. It's been how long now since Scenic has been out now? Still no instrument manual.

[reusenoise]

I stay on the window durign these days of R+ release madness,these are my tought (sorry I'm not native english speaker so forgive me if something it's unclear )
I'm Reason 11 happy owner I can use it as a daw or as plugin in Reaper,I own all my software,no sub here,but I'm not against sub per se.
The most noticeable thing it's how many Reason users are upset,they live these thing as a fraud,expecially Reason suite owners,but with the sub mode we have a "weapon" to forsce Reason Studio to do what owner ask in ages.

Ok,let's immage 1000 people jump on sub (1000x20=20000£$€)each month and after a couples of months half of these people ask for better combinators,mixer folders,vst3 support,if RS don't listen they leave the boat,so RS loose 500 subscribtions all togeter (10000 £$€money) so if we looking at a glass half full,sub customer have a really strong weapon to push RS to keep things up to date.

[DaveyG]

Perhaps Mattias and JP should take their, um discussion elsewhere. A public spat between a Product Manager and an RE Dev is not going to help anything.

[craste]

Now that the fallout from all this is (nearly) settling down, have Reason Studios considered having a kind of 'Circle Of Trust' in the future?

This Circle Of Trust would be made up of a select few members of its user base and people who create its 3rd party Rack Extensions etc., so that in the future if there are any plans to announce something, there is a forum where trusted people can provide their valuable feedback before you ‘press the button’ so to speak? Perhaps an additional NDA would be signed too.

Often in business, people within the boardroom along with their valued staff come up with great ideas and ways to present them, but often miss things which are staring them in the face, because ‘they can't see the wood for the trees’. Also, because you know everything, and wrongly assume your customer does too!

If you held a forum with your allocated ‘Circle of Trust’ people before the recent announcement, I bet things would of been done different, as you would have lots of questions which you could then address on the reveal of said product launch. I bet lots of the questions from the Circle of Trust would be things which you would assume people would already know, but they obviously don’t. I think after reading many posts on here and on social media you have to act as if many people don’t know their arse from their elbow so a little hand holding is necessary!

I know if I was steering the Reason Studios Ship I would defo ask for this type of thing before revealing a new product or service so that you have got an answer to almost every conceivable question asked and what possible feedback you might be up against etc. so you can fix before you announce.

[DecafDreams]

Ah, that's much better:

Disabled.png (114.16 KiB) Viewed 3544 times

[Ottostrom]

Now that the fallout from all this is (nearly) settling down, have Reason Studios considered having a kind of 'Circle Of Trust' in the future?

This Circle Of Trust would be made up of a select few members of its user base and people who create its 3rd party Rack Extensions etc., so that in the future if there are any plans to announce something, there is a forum where trusted people can provide their valuable feedback before you ‘press the button’ so to speak? Perhaps an additional NDA would be signed too.

Often in business, people within the boardroom along with their valued staff come up with great ideas and ways to present them, but often miss things which are staring them in the face, because ‘they can't see the wood for the trees’. Also, because you know everything, and wrongly assume your customer does too!

If you held a forum with your allocated ‘Circle of Trust’ people before the recent announcement, I bet things would of been done different, as you would have lots of questions which you could then address on the reveal of said product launch. I bet lots of the questions from the Circle of Trust would be things which you would assume people would already know, but they obviously don’t. I think after reading many posts on here and on social media you have to act as if many people don’t know their arse from their elbow so a little hand holding is necessary!

I know if I was steering the Reason Studios Ship I would defo ask for this type of thing before revealing a new product or service so that you have got an answer to almost every conceivable question asked and what possible feedback you might be up against etc. so you can fix before you announce.

That is actually a really great idea! Working closely on a project can often render you blind to things an outsider notices immediately, so some external input from a few users who do not work for the company would probably be valuable.

[madmacman]

Perhaps Mattias and JP should take their, um discussion elsewhere. A public spat between a Product Manager and an RE Dev is not going to help anything.

Of course it does: It helps increasing popcorn sales.

[Kalm]

Between me acquiring Maschine, Komplete Kontrol, Komplete package + Sounds subscription,

You cannot come out the gate with Reason+ at a $20 pricing model with your only marketing grab as a bunch of content and possibly some user requested features in v12. . . we're working on it.

There is absolutely no reason to compete against Arcade, Splice, Sounds, etc. I get it though. You want to create an ecosystem so for 20 bucks a person can cancel THOSE subscriptions and work in the Reason ecosystem alone. How many people do you think will do that just to have the same complaints the core users have a problem with.

I'm so confused why you didn't give Reason 12 out to people and raise the value of the DAW, THEN launched the subscription. Therefore the people who were drooling to try Reason instantly finally has a cheap barrier of entry to test the cool new upgraded R12. Instead this has turned into another wait and see game with yet the obvious conclusion of losing CORE users. Why would you taunt core users. WHY.

There's more to this story but ill leave it at that for now.

[guitfnky]

Now that the fallout from all this is (nearly) settling down, have Reason Studios considered having a kind of 'Circle Of Trust' in the future?

This Circle Of Trust would be made up of a select few members of its user base and people who create its 3rd party Rack Extensions etc., so that in the future if there are any plans to announce something, there is a forum where trusted people can provide their valuable feedback before you ‘press the button’ so to speak? Perhaps an additional NDA would be signed too.

Often in business, people within the boardroom along with their valued staff come up with great ideas and ways to present them, but often miss things which are staring them in the face, because ‘they can't see the wood for the trees’. Also, because you know everything, and wrongly assume your customer does too!

If you held a forum with your allocated ‘Circle of Trust’ people before the recent announcement, I bet things would of been done different, as you would have lots of questions which you could then address on the reveal of said product launch. I bet lots of the questions from the Circle of Trust would be things which you would assume people would already know, but they obviously don’t. I think after reading many posts on here and on social media you have to act as if many people don’t know their arse from their elbow so a little hand holding is necessary!

I know if I was steering the Reason Studios Ship I would defo ask for this type of thing before revealing a new product or service so that you have got an answer to almost every conceivable question asked and what possible feedback you might be up against etc. so you can fix before you announce.

love this idea. as a name, Circle of Trust sounds a bit like a cult, but maybe it’s accurate.

no, but seriously though—it’s a great idea.

[Melody303]

Perhaps Mattias and JP should take their, um discussion elsewhere. A public spat between a Product Manager and an RE Dev is not going to help anything.

I feel it does help things. Open and clear communication is a plus, not a minus, even if the specifics here are slightly off topic.

[pushedbutton]

ReasonPlusTarget.jpg (429.03 KiB) Viewed 3756 times

Did I do this right?

[jlgrimes]

Now that the fallout from all this is (nearly) settling down, have Reason Studios considered having a kind of 'Circle Of Trust' in the future?

This Circle Of Trust would be made up of a select few members of its user base and people who create its 3rd party Rack Extensions etc., so that in the future if there are any plans to announce something, there is a forum where trusted people can provide their valuable feedback before you ‘press the button’ so to speak? Perhaps an additional NDA would be signed too.

Often in business, people within the boardroom along with their valued staff come up with great ideas and ways to present them, but often miss things which are staring them in the face, because ‘they can't see the wood for the trees’. Also, because you know everything, and wrongly assume your customer does too!

If you held a forum with your allocated ‘Circle of Trust’ people before the recent announcement, I bet things would of been done different, as you would have lots of questions which you could then address on the reveal of said product launch. I bet lots of the questions from the Circle of Trust would be things which you would assume people would already know, but they obviously don’t. I think after reading many posts on here and on social media you have to act as if many people don’t know their arse from their elbow so a little hand holding is necessary!

I know if I was steering the Reason Studios Ship I would defo ask for this type of thing before revealing a new product or service so that you have got an answer to almost every conceivable question asked and what possible feedback you might be up against etc. so you can fix before you announce.

love this idea. as a name, Circle of Trust sounds a bit like a cult, but maybe it’s accurate.

no, but seriously though—it’s a great idea.

Sounds like a good idea as sometimes you can be too close to the details of your work and isolated from the rest of the world.

Outsiders (who are involved with the product professional, semi, and hobbyists) can offer perspectives that are easier to miss than you think.


Also Outsiders are more likely to give it to you straight as they have less to lose if they feel their opinions are hurting the companies feelings.

[avasopht]

Mehh, this would have had the least interest for me. It would have been just another sample lib, while you get FREE SAMPLE PACK CONTAINING 10GB OF GREAT CONTENT everywhere for nothing, I have tons of samples i never heard on my HD, tons of refills i never touched, even all the samples and loops stuff in Reason11 i never touched.

But i like the idea of the packs, where you can check a complete, well, pack...It contains everything to make a specific song type/genre, a specific synth or whatever. Man, i really had payed for something like this in my beginning times, where i absolutely had no clue how to create a song or sounds for the music i wanted to make. Or imagine a package dedicated to vocal processing or mastering... Man, in the past i really had payed for it, as long it has high quality content and if i could effort it.

Today, naahhh, i have enough and know enough...but in the past, yea, sure, give it to me!

And as a side note, i think most samples, sounds, patches are just complete cheap crap out there. I dont want another synth with 1000 patches. Man, how much time do those guys think i have to browse through 1000 patches? I would like rather see 50 really high quality patches instead of 1000 crap sh!t which i need to make sound good, before i can use them... And today i know, creating a really, really good patch can eat up hours. Just for one patch! So, i know good stuff costs money, its ok, but it MUST BE GOOD!

I agree.

I was thinking more on the lines of buying out a label like PrimeLoops and then using the content to produce a more refined product like what Output has done. Not sure if you've looked at their stuff, but I had a play around with Output Exhale, and it is built on those same basic vocal and instrument samples we'd usually discard, but constructed with layers and effect stacks that would be easy to construct with Combinators, IDT (Exhale is just a Kontakt patch), or a more specialized RE.

Either way, it would advance their Reason+ Sound Packs by 10 years, with an immediate offering of more valuable content from day 1 with source material to build combinators and patches.

[EdwardKiy]

Perhaps Mattias and JP should take their, um discussion elsewhere. A public spat between a Product Manager and an RE Dev is not going to help anything.

No, stuff must be said. This whole shitstorm happened because of lack of communication. This is communication. It's bad because there was none. If more time passes it will be even worse. Mattias is here, finally, and hopefully will take this all in and have a hard long think.

So far Mattias has nothing other than being "personally offended". JP posts are a mix of objective issues and subjective issues that made him feel bad personally. Mattias went with ignoring the important stuff and address the tiny and personal detail.

The facts are this: RS took a dump on core users AND 3rd party developers. And it's much harder on 3rd party RE developers, because a) they helped build Reason at their own risk, b) some of them had years if not decade(s?) invested in this and c) this was their source of income.

There's just no way RS can brush this off and come out clean.

This post is NOT like the other 'doom-and-gloom' posts on this forum, because this time most people that normally take a defensive stance on Reason are also here and they are pissed.

[Mint]

Perhaps Mattias and JP should take their, um discussion elsewhere. A public spat between a Product Manager and an RE Dev is not going to help anything.

Was going to say similar thing.
Sort things out in a private discussion guys.