Will there not be a Reason 12? Time for subscription?

[hurricane]

If you purchased R11 Lite and were using 11.2.1 all this time, then you updated to 11.3 and lost a bunch of devices - I mean, this has got to be some sort of mistake, right?

[Rackman]

For anyone interested, the cheapest thing in the shop seems to be: https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/ ... ega-Bundle

[diminished]

If you purchased R11 Lite and were using 11.2.1 all this time, then you updated to 11.3 and lost a bunch of devices - I mean, this has got to be some sort of mistake, right?

The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.

[madmacman]

For anyone interested, the cheapest thing in the shop seems to be: https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/ ... ega-Bundle

Not quite. This one is even lower: https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/1545

[Rackman]

For anyone interested, the cheapest thing in the shop seems to be: https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/ ... ega-Bundle

Not quite. This one is even lower: https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/1545

Not in England. They are the same price. £3.95

[Rackman]

Plugin Boutique is a strange choice of partner for a reach-around. You would have thought they were in competition, and that the whole purpose of this version of Lite is to pull customers over away from VST shops like Plugin Boutique. Maybe they are going to marry and have heavily discounted kids.

[madmacman]

Not quite. This one is even lower: https://www.pluginboutique.com/products/1545

Not in England. They are the same price. £3.95

Strange. When not logged in I see (after switching to £) £4.37 for outlaw mega bundle and £3.82 for Hybrid3.

[DaveyG]

Plugin Boutique is a strange choice of partner for a reach-around. You would have thought they were in competition, and that the whole purpose of this version of Lite is to pull customers over away from Plugin Boutique. Maybe they are going to marry and have heavily discounted kids.

Maybe Plugin Boutique has just bought Reason Studios. Oooooohhh! Might make sense!!!!
What if I'm right?

[Rackman]

Plugin Boutique is a strange choice of partner for a reach-around. You would have thought they were in competition, and that the whole purpose of this version of Lite is to pull customers over away from Plugin Boutique. Maybe they are going to marry and have heavily discounted kids.

Maybe Plugin Boutique has just bought Reason Studios. Oooooohhh! Might make sense!!!!
What if I'm right?

I don't think you're far wrong. That's definitely the way they are headed. The fact they have spent zero time or money on their awful shop surely indicates something else in the works. My money is on a partnership though. I doubt Plugin Boutique could get that kind of money together, unless RS's value has plummeted.

[JiggeryPokery]

The Autotune RE was so unexpected and out of place that it must have been an experiment. Personally I can't see loads of developers wanting to port VSTs to REs no matter what, so I think there is another piece of the puzzle. Some kind of automated port that will require no effort on developers behalf.

Well, there's still no such thing as an automated port from VST to RE, but you're right the Antares thing is weird, dredging up a 20 year old product, because it's been released explicitly as an "Antares Audio Technologies LLC" product yet from what we can tell it was entirely ported and marketed inhouse by RS. (Before anyone says this is entirely speculation, what is a fact is that the RS marketing email for the product specifically stated it was released by Reason Studios ("we released"), not Antares, and RS are too precise with their wording for this to be untrue, even if it's not what they meant to say).

Clearly Antares got a sweetheart deal: at the very minimum they were offered the following: "either your code is going to be in our rack, or your brains, and we'll do literally everything to get it in the shop, the coding, the videos, the song demos, the lot, and you just sit there with your feet up, smoking pot, and we'll throw 70%* of what little money we make of it at you". Well, maybe the pot smoking bit I made up, and the threats of extreme violence, but the rest seems to be true. One must wonder if anyone from Antares has even installed Reason, let alone the SDK!

Given that VST retail side of the PropShop was, it must be fairly concluded, a complete bust - after all, it got the big E in what, 18 months, two years? - I expect you may see more of these sweetheart VST conversions in the coming months. The turnaround time of something like this is likely less than three months, so expect at least one more this year. For the VST producer it's literally money for nothing and their cheque for free, and for RS they think it's a big coup on social media. Gotta collect all those 's and 's and support the fascist-loving billionaire Mark Zuckerberg. I'm really not sure who the AutoTune RE is for; anyone with another DAW would just get the VST, and while personally I don't see what it adds to RRP, while no doubt some could find uses for it, it'd be pretty niche. For vocal pitch correction, anyone in Reason is using the sequencer's pitch correction, which has so many advantages over AutoTune/Neptune. And for specifically the "Cher" effect, sure, Neptune can be a little coarse for that, but look, that's a one-trick pony of an effect that was passé the moment someone else released a track after Believe that used it. But if someone wants to pay £99 just for that, well, they're welcome to do so.


* Honestly, for this arrangement I would damn well hope the split is 50/50, because if it's still 70/30, it's a real slap in the face for every IDT/GE dev who accepts, albeit perhaps a little grudgingly, the lower revenue through the addition of pre-made modules because it seems to me there's fundamentally no difference when someone else is effectively doing all the work, which isn't even true of IDT/GE!

[EnochLight]

Look at the work they've been doing for the last couple of years. Zero investment in DAW

That's a great idea - let's look at what they've been doing for the last couple of years:

• 10.1 (released about 2 years ago): Europa now loads samples; Rack Extension SDK support for Players, improved sample loading with sample zones and pattern automation support. Drum Sequencer Player offered for free for the month of May 2018 to all version 10 owners.
• 10.2 (released September 2018): Multi Lane Editing for MIDI, adaptive snap to grid, improved navigation, a new tutorial area to help you get started, adjust multiple faders, solo and mute in the mixer and more for a faster, more streamlined workflow (these are all core DAW features, BTW).
• 10.3 (released April 2019): Performance update for core DAW, especially for VST hosting, but also core devices and RE's (again, a core DAW update).
• 10.4 (released May 2019): Added Monotone Bass Synthesizer and Rytmik Drum Machine for Reason Compact support with core Reason DAW.
• 11.0 (released August 2019): I'll ignore all of the devices and obvious RRP stuff, so the core DAW got edit/draw, crossfade, curve and zoom in the sequencer.
• 11.1 (released November 2019): no core DAW stuff aside for macOS Catalina support and AU support in RRP.
• 11.2 (released February 2020): core DAW's External MIDI device now allows you to patch up to eight CV signals and route them as separate MIDI CCs to external MIDI gear; Drag MIDI notes to track.
• 11.3 (released 2 months ago): AAX support for RRP.

So, zero investment in DAW? That's being disingenuous. Should they do more? Of course! But they have given no indication that they are abandoning core DAW development at all for the past couple of years. There's only been a few updates with zero core DAW stuff.

As for the OP and whether we'll see subs or not, well - I'd honestly be surprised if we didn't see a sub option of some sort at least. The software is already setup for it to some extent - there's not a ton of work that needs to occur. That said, if they don't offer at least some sort of traditional software purchase option, they'll likely lose a ton of customers IMHO

[WOO]

How does Antares Studio's sound? Is Verdane looking for a buyer?

[Faastwalker]

The idea of Reason becoming subscription based is a pretty bleak prospect. Especially after investing so much money into RE's that can ONLY be used in Reason. I consider myself a casual user / hobbyist. I love Reason but I don't use it enough to warrant a monthly subscription. How many users would be in the same situation? On the other hand if they have also spent a decent amount of money on RE's would they fill bound to Reason? Is a very uncomfortable prospect. But it would be a cold day in Hell before I'd subscribe going forward. I think it would be a huge mistake for Reason Studios to go down this path.

[Boombastix]

Keep in mind that SaaS and buying REs is not mutually exclusive. Microsoft "Office" can still be purchased, even if they push the subscription model more. Same with Intuit and their Quickbooks, buy or subscribe, you choose. Many other examples as well.

The key is to build a user base, and it was suggested here at RT several times to make a RRP, and then that the RRP should be made free to bring in new users. It just became free…

Most users spend more money on presets, sample packs, VST/REs than the actual DAW, so to tap into that they need to get a shop inside the DAW for those things, like Arturia Analog Labs, or Roland's stuff. Splice and Sounds.com are integrated too.

But with RS holding just a small pie of the DAW market they need to expand it, RRP is that vehicle I guess.

The subscription may just be another avenue to get new users on-board who cannot cash up $500-1k for all the plugins. And they actually have RE sub already but not advertised much.

If there will be new life in the RE SDK is a wait and see I guess. User with a free RRP will be able to buy RE's like a VST, a developer has the advantage to sell with minimal risk of cracks. But VST developers complain the RE SDK is too limited in many ways, so they made it open source. Maybe that will lead to a more user friendly and attractive SDK, however most big VST developers have their own frameworks by now, so not easy to bring them over, unless RRP/RE market is so big that it cannot be ignored. That is a tough one though… Having just 3 known VST developers active with REs, just isn't enough (Synapse/Papen/UJAM)

But the free RRP this soon was unexpected though. Maybe May Madness didn't generate enough sales, so they realize that most Reason users are pretty saturated with REs at this point.

Then come Black Friday/Christmas, we will see attractive upgrade paths from the RRP, a new update of some sort, and push for RE sales to the Abelton users etc.

A big question is do they have enough coders to pull this off? They seem soooo thin on that side.

[bxbrkrz]

I am going thru the thread and I haven't read anything, anything, pointing to some major subscription news, or even the vague whisper of an infrasonic rumble of a rumor coming out of an old, abandoned and haunted coal mine that collapsed in 1883.
To the contrary, the free option seems to be good news for attracting more non Reason users to the RS ecosystem. As far as a subscription, it's fine if you can still buy Reason.

[fieldframe]

Keep in mind that SaaS and buying REs is not mutually exclusive. Microsoft "Office" can still be purchased, even if they push the subscription model more. Same with Intuit and their Quickbooks, buy or subscribe, you choose. Many other examples as well.

This will almost certainly be the case. Reason will add subscription as an option, but not exclusively (just like Rack Extensions today). The only reason Adobe was able to go subscription-only was that they had a dominant position in the market that they could abuse.

The DAW market is nowhere near the monopoly of visual creative software. Unlike Adobe, Reason Studios has to keep its customers happy because there’s actual competition, and they’d just be setting themselves on fire to make Reason subscription-only.

[cinhcet]

If future reason versions are subscription only, I would never give them a single cent anymore.

(I am posting this not to repeat what everyone already said, but I think it is important that enough people give their opinion on this, in case anyone of RS will read here)

[EnochLight]

Totally agree. I'm sure the <50 people who regularly chime in here will help Reason Studios draw up a good plan going forward.

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[robotgard]

[NDKay]

Will Reasontalk soon be a "VST-Forum" instead of a "DAW-Forum".

I mean like "Reason the DAW" as a Subforum here.

Like getting degraded by its own tools ?



(... do not, dont go serious about what i wrote! )

[joeyluck]

Will Reasontalk soon be a "VST-Forum" instead of a "DAW-Forum".

I mean like "Reason the DAW" as a Subforum here.

Like getting degraded by its own tools ?



(... do not, dont go serious about what i wrote! )

Reason 11 was released in August. Almost a year ago now. That's when the RRP was introduced and people were making these same comments then.

So I suppose the answer is: no lol

[guitfnky]

Will Reasontalk soon be a "VST-Forum" instead of a "DAW-Forum".

I mean like "Reason the DAW" as a Subforum here.

Like getting degraded by its own tools ?



(... do not, dont go serious about what i wrote! )

Reason 11 was released in August. Almost a year ago now. That's when the RRP was introduced and people were making these same comments then.

So I suppose the answer is: no lol

??? it seems you’re being a bit too literal—the crux of the question is, will Reason be moving to a more plugin-centric model in future releases? it’s still too early to say for sure. there’ve only been a couple of minor updates since 11 came out, and they’ve said very little about their approach going forward.

the answer is PROBABLY no—if we take Mattias’ comments at face value—then they’re planning to continue heavily supporting the DAW for the foreseeable future. but we can’t know that for sure until we see something concrete.

also, R11 came out in September.

“lol”

[EnochLight]

if we take Mattias’ comments at face value—then they’re planning to continue heavily supporting the DAW for the foreseeable future. but we can’t know that for sure until we see something concrete.

Well, concretely - new features were added to the core DAW in Reason 11. So I guess we'll have to see what appears in Reason 12 to really tell if there's a major course correction. But i'd imagine we're looking at early 2021 before that's a possibility...

[DaveyG]

if we take Mattias’ comments at face value

We really shouldn't. He's a nice chap but he's the product manager. It's his job to make every development sound as positive as possible. He's probably got some influence in the future direction but he does not have the final say and he's not going to divulge all the secret stuff that's going on. We'll only ever get the positive end of the story from him.

Just walk a mile in his shoes. There must be decisions that he really does not like but his job is to present them to the world as if they are just as great as the stuff he really likes. It's not a job I could do. I wear my heart on my sleeve.

[danc]

if we take Mattias’ comments at face value

We really shouldn't. He's a nice chap but he's the product manager. It's his job to make every development sound as positive as possible. He's probably got some influence in the future direction but he does not have the final say and he's not going to divulge all the secret stuff that's going on. We'll only ever get the positive end of the story from him.

Just walk a mile in his shoes. There must be decisions that he really does not like but his job is to present them to the world as if they are just as great as the stuff he really likes. It's not a job I could do. I wear my heart on my sleeve.

It baffles me every day why Reason Studios keeps their distance from their users.

Reason is an 'enthusiasts' DAW and normally (based on observations from other hobbyist/enthusiast product driven industries like motorbikes, caravans, cycling, board games, video games, model aircraft, stamp collecting or whatever) the companies that feed these markets put huge efforts in levelling with their user base. For the companies it keeps their market active and ... they learn loads from their users and mould what they build around the ideas. Plus it massively reduces moaning and winging. It's good to talk.

And... just jump on Kilohearts (the guys behind PhasePlant) Discord channel. Those guys talk and talk and talk... and never seem phased about chatting with their users. They properly discuss old, new and in-the-future feature ideas... and seriously... it works. Bugs are fixed as a joint effort. Their products have the right level of cool features because they listen to the people that have to use them. Their users are happily feeding back all the time and the devs are feeding back all the time. It's a happy and productive environment.