Hardware vs Software

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
cognitive
Posts: 177
Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Location: Los Angeles

Post 14 Nov 2018

With just a Subtractor and a Matrix, you can start to approximate a pretty authentic 303/Acid sound. Also, there are plenty of tune-able 808/909 sounds to be found included with Redrum and Kong.

For more authentic analog mojo, I'm personally a fan of Synapse' "The Legend".

djs
Posts: 98
Joined: 29 Jan 2018

Post 14 Nov 2018

Software is more efficient to produce a track given the ability to use a mouse and keyboard. Also more budget friendly with more bang for the buck- many software devices packed into one program. Hardware on the other hand, is cumbersome in sequencing, recording, and editing, but it allows more creativity with the hands on experience and far more enjoyable to experiment with.

User avatar
Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2504
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

Post 15 Nov 2018

EnochLight wrote:
14 Nov 2018
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
14 Nov 2018


nope. that's saying you don't need a specific guitar for heavy metal. you can use any guitar. same as for 303. you can use any synth. freedom. think outside the box.
Image

I look forward to your blog post about this.
hit me baby: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/you-cant-make-acid/

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11222
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
15 Nov 2018
EnochLight wrote:
14 Nov 2018


Image

I look forward to your blog post about this.
hit me baby: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/you-cant-make-acid/
You wrote better articles with a better tone...
Reason12, Win10

come1
Posts: 11
Joined: 14 Nov 2018

Post 15 Nov 2018

Yes but I want to burst out onto the scene!!! Make an impact, shake things up. I think I need some serious hardware to do this. I tried Reason but all my tracks flopped, no DJ would play them because they sounded so lame.

What synth should I start with? Maybe a Mini Moog right? Or should I get and 808 and 303?

Where is Tijn at these days?

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11222
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
Yes but I want to burst out onto the scene!!! Make an impact, shake things up. I think I need some serious hardware to do this. I tried Reason but all my tracks flopped, no DJ would play them because they sounded so lame.

What synth should I start with? Maybe a Mini Moog right? Or should I get and 808 and 303?

Where is Tijn at these days?
In that case...as usual...dont blame the tools ;-)
Reason12, Win10

come1
Posts: 11
Joined: 14 Nov 2018

Post 15 Nov 2018

In that case...as usual...dont blame the tools ;-)


I blame Reason. It sounds properly good on the Bose speakers in my bedroom, but in the club it sounds like a wet fart going off. I blame Reason because it's like low data right?

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2939
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

This is low quality trolling! D-. See me in my office.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 4415
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

user error.
I write music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

User avatar
QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3500
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
I blame Reason. It sounds properly good on the Bose speakers in my bedroom, but in the club it sounds like a wet fart going off. I blame Reason because it's like low data right?
Nope not Reason's fault. Means your mix doesn't translate to other systems. Another DAW or a hardware synth won't improve that. Only developing skill will. https://theproaudiofiles.com/mix-translation/

User avatar
dioxide
Posts: 1791
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

Acid house and acid techno constitutes most of my musical output. When people see me live they are often surprised as they think I produced it all with classic hardware and not 100% Reason (and REs).

I use ABL3 now, ABL2 previously and before that Thor and Subtractor. Marco's right in saying that you don't need a 303 emulator to make this style, but at the same time the 303 is used in most of the tracks in this genre, and most of the defining records.

People fetishize vintage gear, and especially in some strands of this scene as some in the scene idealise the past. In my opinion you don't need the hardware for something like a 303. For me the only advantage to hardware (which I don't use by the way) is the interface is designed for the instrument. The TB303 is such a simple device that it's easy to recreate the instrument by mapping the controls to a MIDI controller, as there are only 6 knobs, only 5 of which you might use for controlling the sound.

Finally the classic gear for this style (303, 909 and perhaps 808, 707 and 727) are basically preset machines. This means they are a great equaliser when it comes to making music, as once you have got all the 'right' sounds, then you have to think about you can do to make it a standout track. The 303 only really makes 303 noises, so it becomes about choosing the notes and the rhythm. The last few years there has been a lot of mediocre acid made (IMO) and I think it is because people gather the sounds they need and make something that is run of the mill. They don't seem to think about what other elements they need to add to those classic sounds to make their track a more interesting piece of music.

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11222
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
In that case...as usual...dont blame the tools ;-)


I blame Reason. It sounds properly good on the Bose speakers in my bedroom, but in the club it sounds like a wet fart going off. I blame Reason because it's like low data right?
The most common problem you describe is that the bass and low end is not mono and/or bad mixed. Cut everything below the frequency your speakers can produce or get a speaker setup that produces the sound that you hear in a club (e.g. a sub woofer). And now learn to create a defined bass in the low end area. And btw, i suck in that pretty much and still need to learn that, because this seem to be the most problematic part of mixing.

...and i start to smell some kind of...
51r+HMAGbtL._SL1000_.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
dioxide
Posts: 1791
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

One more thing. A friend of mine is a hardware snob and has a Bassbot 303, which is a pretty good hardware emulation of a TB303. He's an ex-TB303 user but sold it years ago. He has a x0xbox but the Bassbot is a closer emulation. At the time I was using ABL2 and he brought it round to mine and I set it up to do a like for like comparison. There wasn't much in it. ABL2 had a bit more 'crunch' at certain settings but it was very close, much to his annoyance.

Since ABL3 has come out I don't think there is much difference at all. The VST is currently getting some tweaks to improve the response of the filter accent when multiple accents are used in a row. I think the improvement is going to very slight though. The RE version will also have this improvement apparently.

At the moment ABL3 is as good as the real thing in my opinion. Phosycon and ABL2 were quite close but ABL3 surpassed them both. ABL3 is also better than anything Roland have made recently (Aira TB-3 and Boutique TB03). I haven't tried their software 303, but my guess is that it is similar to the models in their hardware. EDIT: My mistake, Roland haven't released a software version of the TB303 yet.

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8416
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
Yes but I want to burst out onto the scene!!! Make an impact, shake things up. I think I need some serious hardware to do this. I tried Reason but all my tracks flopped, no DJ would play them because they sounded so lame.

What synth should I start with? Maybe a Mini Moog right? Or should I get and 808 and 303?

Where is Tijn at these days?


:roll:



lame_troll_attempt.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

antic604

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
I blame Reason. It sounds properly good on the Bose speakers in my bedroom, but in the club it sounds like a wet fart going off. I blame Reason because it's like low data right?
:?

:roll:

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8416
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

Post 15 Nov 2018

That moment when you realize people get soooo bored with their life, they literally need to create a fake account and start trolling. The 50 millions dollar question - is it a current Reasontalker, someone who has been banned before, both, or a KVR-peep truly bored out of their mind?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

come1
Posts: 11
Joined: 14 Nov 2018

Post 15 Nov 2018

I'm not trolling, it's a real question. Can music produced on a laptop, really stand up next to true analogue audio run through a dedicated mixer?

I'm putting this down to the way that Reason processes audio, it feels like the engine is limited in throughput.

I use Beats by Dre headphones for most of my mastering duties - could this be the problem? I thought Dre was a decent producer so surely these will help me get a fat mixdown?

Where is DirtyHarry at these days?

User avatar
FlowerSoldier
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 15 Nov 2018

Bro, I would invest in some decent monitors if that's your problem. I used to try mixing on bose speakers...i thought my mixes sounded pretty good.
But they sucked. Also, no offense broh, Beats suck bad. Maybe try some Shure headphones. They're pretty affordable and much better.
You need to get some good monitors so you can actually hear what's happening in your low end. The bose systems just are built to make music sound good, not provide an actual reflection of what's going on in your mix.

Where Tupac at these days?

User avatar
EnochLight
Moderator
Posts: 8416
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Imladris

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
I'm not trolling, it's a real...
Sure.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11222
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
I'm not trolling, it's a real question. Can music produced on a laptop, really stand up next to true analogue audio run through a dedicated mixer?

I'm putting this down to the way that Reason processes audio, it feels like the engine is limited in throughput.

I use Beats by Dre headphones for most of my mastering duties - could this be the problem? I thought Dre was a decent producer so surely these will help me get a fat mixdown?

Where is DirtyHarry at these days?
Hans Zimmer produces on a laptop.
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3500
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
I'm not trolling, it's a real question. Can music produced on a laptop, really stand up next to true analogue audio run through a dedicated mixer?

I'm putting this down to the way that Reason processes audio, it feels like the engine is limited in throughput.

I use Beats by Dre headphones for most of my mastering duties - could this be the problem? I thought Dre was a decent producer so surely these will help me get a fat mixdown?
Should you be serious, I've already linked you to an article about mix translation. and...
FlowerSoldier wrote:
15 Nov 2018
Bro, I would invest in some decent monitors if that's your problem. I used to try mixing on bose speakers...i thought my mixes sounded pretty good.
But they sucked. Also, no offense broh, Beats suck bad. Maybe try some Shure headphones. They're pretty affordable and much better.
You need to get some good monitors so you can actually hear what's happening in your low end. The bose systems just are built to make music sound good, not provide an actual reflection of what's going on in your mix.
Like FlowerSoldier said ^ No professional mix engineer mixes with Beats headphones or Bose speakers. Those are consumer level products not intended for professional use.

User avatar
fotizimo
Posts: 285
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Canada

Post 15 Nov 2018

So why not have some hardware AND software??

Try out the IK-Multimedia Uno synth. Hardware based analog with 2-OCSs, and both IOS and VST versions of the app to control the hardware with.

The thing can make some really great sounds, and I can use it in Reason. The only drawback is that the MIDI signals are one-way in Reason, in that you can control the hardware from the VST, but any changes you make to the hardware device, do not come back through to the VST, although Reason is to blame for that as it doesn't allow MIDI input signals to interact with instruments + VSTs.

You can also check out the Roland System-1 VST that goes with the System-1 or System-1m hardware devices. Same interaction capabilities as the Uno, as well as the MIDI restrictions.
Fotizimo @ Instagram
:reason: on Surface Pro 4
Nektar Impact 25
Novation Launchkey Mini
Arturia SparkLE Spark Codec for Reason

kinkujin
Posts: 206
Joined: 01 Mar 2018

Post 15 Nov 2018

Computers aren't as cool as a hardware synth, no doubt, but once you go down that hardware rabbit-hole .... let's just say I've gotten myself into a fair bit of trouble in my house.

I'm a believer it can all be done in the box - if that's what you like. Either way have fun!

User avatar
bitley
Posts: 1673
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Location: sweden

Post 15 Nov 2018

It is about the too... I mean the toys! The hardware acts as the instant toys over here & evidence for all guests that... oh it's a music maker who lives here. Feels good surrounding myself with some dear old friends like Kawai K4, D-50, Ensoniq EPS & about half a truckload more (Atari of course). I use it to make sounds no doubt but I don't seem to connect the stuff with midi & etc like we did it in the old days. Often I just grab stereo cables for a sampling or multitrack session with a specific synth (check it out if u like, many tracks like that on soundcloud.com/bitleytm and youtube.com/bitleytm - such as... sessions with CZ-101, Alpha Juno, Oberheim Matrix 6, Roland JD-XA - which was kindly borrowed to me from Roland when they wanted an opinion...). So hm what was the ques... nah you don't need hardware really. Speakers, that's it, but be kind with the neighbors. In my hw collection I basically add what I grew up with that made me go window shopping for years so I was happy as a kid / the kid in me finally got its sugar rush so I couldn't settle with the awesome PX7. Found a mint DX21 and that's just lovely too. I guess I treat the synths like some kind of studio art. Of course play them too but I have no attraction for analog gear anymore. Sold a 106 two years ago, even sold my beloved JX8P when needing money a while ago. They've become silly expensive so my secret synth recommendation is to exclusively look for digital machines but that is if you know them and like them. Youtube has become the major window shopper's outlet so whenever I need to update myself on how a Bogdan NZ-9 or Zyvox 505RS (kidding) sounds / insert odd old synth here I go there. Often happens if I see some ad. Fortunately I'm precious with minty looking and fully working instruments and those are often overpriced anyway. Then again for new gear the Deepmind series are really tempting. I had the DM12 but sometimes I just buy / sell / trade because it's fun to make changes. If something very rarely gets used I sell it with no hesitation. I even had a completely mint JX-10 for a while last year, upgraded it and all but nah. I can lay my eyes on it forever and just love it but when it comes down to it the gear is often just standing in my way. You should hear my complaints when I want to make music without fuzz, I'm like Donald Duck then; "Too much stuff here!!! Grrrr!!!".

/ A synth addict's confession

(15 minutes later I'm back on Ebay and just scanning pages for hours lol - I'm so pointlessly drawn to memories)

Notable truth: at last I could say I'd tried and even owned every synth ever made. Did it take me back to square one? Without doubt. The ones you loved as a kid will always haunt you.

...Must resist TX81Z...

User avatar
aeox
Competition Winner
Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

Post 15 Nov 2018

come1 wrote:
15 Nov 2018
I'm not trolling, it's a real question. Can music produced on a laptop, really stand up next to true analogue audio run through a dedicated mixer?

I'm putting this down to the way that Reason processes audio, it feels like the engine is limited in throughput.

I use Beats by Dre headphones for most of my mastering duties - could this be the problem? I thought Dre was a decent producer so surely these will help me get a fat mixdown?

Where is DirtyHarry at these days?
Yes it can!

I just want to be clear on one thing though.. there is no "Reason sound" in terms of "audio engine" If your bass sounds like a wet fart then it's a mix/sound design issue. (if you are able to achieve a wet fart sound, I'd actually be interested to know how) That sounds like some serious physical modeling.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: jaholeo and 20 guests