"Vintage" Sampler
- manisnotabird
- Posts: 479
- Joined: 20 Feb 2015
- Location: Austin, TX
Something a la vintage Ensoniq samplers. Switchable bit and sample rates of the samples, but then analog-emulated filters and maybe even analog-emulated amplifer section. This is pretty much impossible to do polyphonically in Reason right now, without some very complicated routing using Distributor.
What you describe sounds like TAL Sampler which I would love to see ported from VSTi to the Reason rack. If not, I would love a sampler like that. I don't think the current SDK allows for importing of samples so it won't likely come until a Prop upgrade to the SDK.
For now, what I do is create a patch in TAL Sampler. Then I use Samplit 2.1 to sample the TAL Sampler patch and convert it to a perfect NN-XT patch which I can then tweak further in the rack.
For now, what I do is create a patch in TAL Sampler. Then I use Samplit 2.1 to sample the TAL Sampler patch and convert it to a perfect NN-XT patch which I can then tweak further in the rack.
Are you sure that the bit rate could be adjusted? I'm not aware of this being possible in early 90s samplers at least. Old samplers allowed you to downsample (sample rate) destructively which is the same as taking your 44.1khz WAV and downsampling it in a wave editor.manisnotabird wrote:Something a la vintage Ensoniq samplers. Switchable bit and sample rates of the samples, but then analog-emulated filters and maybe even analog-emulated amplifer section. This is pretty much impossible to do polyphonically in Reason right now, without some very complicated routing using Distributor.
Aside from that both the NN-19 and NN-XT have amplifier and filter ADSRs with decent filters in. Again I'm not aware of any sampler filters from the time as being anything particularly special. Mostly they were digital filters to my knowledge. Unless anyone can chime in with more specific knowledge of the samplers of the time, Ensoniq, Roland, Akai etc?
- Benedict
- Competition Winner
- Posts: 2747
- Joined: 16 Jan 2015
- Location: Gold Coast, Australia
- Contact:
The Emax I had Curtis chips for Filters. Emax II went entirely digital but still sounded very nice. Actually much smoother, better behaved, than the Curtis.
Downsampling alone will not emulate an older unit as so much depended on the DA converters (as well as filters). IMO the Ensoniqs and Akais sounded horrible compared to Emu. Of course my Emaxes were many times the price.
The other thing you can do is simply sample one note per octave or one note only for the whole keyboard (usually on Mid C) as that really is how we did it at the time when using samplers as synths. Most of what you hear in these tracks is Emax II with tones sampled only on Mid C at 28k. That includes drums which were synthesized from the tones.
The track "Utopia 497" is probably a good place to start.
And yes I would like to have some advances on Thor & NN-XT. While they are truly superb, they could use some new features - ideally within the existing units but in practical terms probably more likely a whole new unit. Maybe called Ma-XT
Downsampling alone will not emulate an older unit as so much depended on the DA converters (as well as filters). IMO the Ensoniqs and Akais sounded horrible compared to Emu. Of course my Emaxes were many times the price.
The other thing you can do is simply sample one note per octave or one note only for the whole keyboard (usually on Mid C) as that really is how we did it at the time when using samplers as synths. Most of what you hear in these tracks is Emax II with tones sampled only on Mid C at 28k. That includes drums which were synthesized from the tones.
The track "Utopia 497" is probably a good place to start.
And yes I would like to have some advances on Thor & NN-XT. While they are truly superb, they could use some new features - ideally within the existing units but in practical terms probably more likely a whole new unit. Maybe called Ma-XT
Benedict Roff-Marsh
Completely burned and gone
Completely burned and gone
Hey Benedict- can i ask what sounded so bad with the akai samplers:: was it just the libraries,or the actual device output i wonder?Benedict wrote:IMO the Ensoniqs and Akais sounded horrible compared to Emu.
Am a big fan of emu products here- wishing the company founders still developed today- the emu X3 was quite advanced software for time,and the dsp chips they developed are awesome in use-imo.
Aside from nnxt,these days i find myself using http://www.vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php (shortcurcuit v1.1.2)quite a lot-really nice options/filters and effects for me.
This old feature list alone- could transform something like the nnxt,giving a 'vintage feel' with some of the filters and mod algorithms.
Specifications (v1.1.1)
User interface
Streamlined user interface for fast editing at the sample-zone level.
Fast editing of multiple zones.
"In context"-sample preview.
Extensive drag & drop support (onto the keyrange-view or the list-view).
Sample/Intrument import
RIFF wave-files (.wav) (8/16/24/32-bit & 32-bit float, mono/stereo at any sample rate)
AKAI S5000/S6000/Z4/Z8 .akp banks (partial)
NI battery kits (partial)
Soundfont 2.00 (partial)
Propellerhead Recycle 1 & 2
Sampler engine
High-quality sinc interpolation
Oversampling used when needed to prevent aliasing
Double-precision float math (64-bit) used where it matters (IIR-filters).
Single-precision float math (32-bit) used elsewhere.
Supports any sample-rate.
Max polyphony per instance: 256 voices
Multiple outputs. (max 16 mono AND 8 stereo-pairs per instance)
Supported sample-playback modes:
playback modes:
forward
forward loop
forward loop with crossfading
forward loop until release
forward loop bidirectional
forward shot
sliced (maps slices accross the keyboard)
on release
reverse
reverse shot
2 filters / voice
Filter algorithms:
Lowpass 2-pole (2 types)
Lowpass 1/2/3/4-pole ladder-filter
Lowpass 1/2/3/4-pole ladder-filter with saturation
Highpass 2-pole
Bandpass
Peak
Notch
Dual bandpass
Dual peak
Comb filter
2-band parameric EQ (2 types)
graphic EQ
morphEQ
mörder OD (overdrive)
Bitf*cker
Distortion
Clipper
Gate
Limiter
Slewer
Microgate (does glitch/loop style effects when the gate is open)
Ring modulation
Phase modulation (equivalent to FM)
Frequency shifting
Pulse oscillator
Pulse oscillator (with sync)
Sawtooth oscillator (with 1-16 voices in unison)
Sinus oscillator
3 stepLFOs / voice. Doubles as 32-step stepsequencer and wavetable LFO.
2 AHDSR envelopes / voice
Powerful modulation system with the ability to modulate itself. Destinations include envelope-times, loop-points in addition to traditional destinations.
Group LFO
Group modulation routing.
Group effects. (2 effects / group)
Effect types:
digidelay (feedback, filtering & optional midi-sync)
freqshift delay
chorus
freqshift flange
digidist
stereo width
MS decoder
System requirements
Microsoft Windows 2000, XP or newer.
Processor with SSE-support (includes Intel Pentium 3 and newer, AMD Athlon XP and newer)
Software capable of hosting VST-instruments.
Did'nt you have something todo with this old sampler software Benedict??
- Benedict
- Competition Winner
- Posts: 2747
- Joined: 16 Jan 2015
- Location: Gold Coast, Australia
- Contact:
I was BIG fan of Shortcircuit back in my VST days. I was a pretty vocal advocate for him for a while. I think there was then a newer version that just didn't work as well. I kinda forget now. What I liked tho was that immediately it reminded me of my beloved Emax II - only with a lot more options. Also no silly flashing lights GUI.
Akai and Ensoniq were more popular but that was really a price thing and then familiarity as your mate had one and said it was the best (as that was all he knew). The Emu filters and workflow were always more musical than feature driven. IMO the Emu sounded nicer and flowed much better in the same way that other American instruments and software can tend to. Thinking Opcode's Vision and of course Moog, Oberheim...
Akai and Ensoniq were more popular but that was really a price thing and then familiarity as your mate had one and said it was the best (as that was all he knew). The Emu filters and workflow were always more musical than feature driven. IMO the Emu sounded nicer and flowed much better in the same way that other American instruments and software can tend to. Thinking Opcode's Vision and of course Moog, Oberheim...
Benedict Roff-Marsh
Completely burned and gone
Completely burned and gone
Hi everyone...i am a new user here. If you talk about my case then I would love to see ported from VSTi to the Reason rack. If not, I would love a sampler like that. I don't think the current SDK allows for importing of samples so it won't likely come until a Prop upgrade to the SDK.What I do is create a patch in TAL Sampler. Then I use Samplit 2.1 to sample the TAL Sampler patch and convert it to a perfect NN-XT patch which I can then tweak further in the rack.
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printed circuit board assembly company
Last edited by RockyFath on 24 Jan 2017, edited 1 time in total.
I'd like to see something with a bit more character than the standard samplers also.
I bought TAL Sampler a few months ago, and it's been my single favourite virtual instrument purchase. Partly because of the Akai/Emu signal processing emulation, partly because of the editor and workflow, and the fact that it sounds great, but mainly because.... *drumroll* time-stretching! Admittedly it's old-school granular time-stretching, which I love love love, but (until Grain) there was NO time-stretching functionality in any of Reason's samplers! If you just wanted to play a sound polyphonically, the same duration but different pitches, you couldn't. And for a program which prides itself on the quality of its time-stretching, that's just crazy. I assume you can use Grain to approximate an old-school Akai sampler in this way, but ultimately it's a granular synth, not a sampler.
One of the things I love doing with TAL Sampler's time-stretching is to set it to one voice polyphony and play legato with a vocal sample. Press the key with the sample on it, and immediately press another key. The sample will change to the pitch of the second key the moment you press it. With a bit of glide/portamento, this is super fun, and very 90s.
It would be very much within the ethos of Reason and the rack to update the rack with a well-featured new sampler with a great editor and great vintage sampler emulation. The NN-19 is visually based on an Akai S950, but as an original Reason device it comes from an era when users had neither the computing power nor the will to emulate the dirty sound of "bad old" hardware. Now, we do.
One of the things I love doing with TAL Sampler's time-stretching is to set it to one voice polyphony and play legato with a vocal sample. Press the key with the sample on it, and immediately press another key. The sample will change to the pitch of the second key the moment you press it. With a bit of glide/portamento, this is super fun, and very 90s.
It would be very much within the ethos of Reason and the rack to update the rack with a well-featured new sampler with a great editor and great vintage sampler emulation. The NN-19 is visually based on an Akai S950, but as an original Reason device it comes from an era when users had neither the computing power nor the will to emulate the dirty sound of "bad old" hardware. Now, we do.
- Vince-Noir-99
- Posts: 449
- Joined: 02 Dec 2015
- Location: Russia
I always found the NN19 to be pretty good at doing that 80s sampler sound, by using just one sampeld note, played chromatically 1 or even 2 octaves lower than its original pitch. With the LO BW and Interpolation switches there are quite a few options.
The S1000 and S1100 both have 8-Point sinc interpolation. Basically means, throw in a low-bitrate or low-sample rate sound, or play the lower notes, it sounds a lot better without aliasing.
http://martin78.com/samplers/akai-s1000-s1100/
I have an S1000 and a S1000PB (playback-only) they sound great to me
http://martin78.com/samplers/akai-s1000-s1100/
I have an S1000 and a S1000PB (playback-only) they sound great to me
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