Wish OchenK would come back!

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 1824
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

20 Sep 2018

If only to add retrigger mode to A-Series ;) But also because I really liked his devices. I find myself using them all the time. Anyone still hear from him or has he checked out permanently?
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

HP Envy J130ea | i7 4700MQ | 12 GB DDR | 2GB GeForce 740m | Komplete Audio 6

MrFigg
Posts: 456
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

20 Sep 2018

I wrote to him last week to encourage a return. Here’s hoping. Great REs

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 1824
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

20 Sep 2018

Yeah like, even given all the options I have I still really like the A-Series. Just a couple of small things that prevent me from using it on the regular. His videos were the first that really explained to me how and why everything hooked up the way it did and it totally changed how I approached my other synths. I know he had a rough ride on his last release, but more people liked it than didn't. 4mer is actually really decent. Super gritty/edgy.
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

HP Envy J130ea | i7 4700MQ | 12 GB DDR | 2GB GeForce 740m | Komplete Audio 6

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 3812
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

20 Sep 2018

INteresting...this discussion that we want Ochen back comes back from time to time...Guess we want him really back. He made a few cool devices, maybe a bit buggy, but with good ideas. Hope if he comes back, he will stand the fedback and uses the ppl here for beta testing before releasing. I was actually involved in a few beta things, and the beta testers are doing a great job and the devs work hard to get the stuff done. It may also take some time to fix everything, sometimes it may take loooong to get the job done.

I cross my fingers!
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

two shoes
Posts: 30
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

20 Sep 2018

I didn’t know he left, but now that I do I want him back! I have almost all his REs and they’re great.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 5625
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, VA

20 Sep 2018

From what I remember, he didn't take too well to the added VST support and competition from that.

But I think he also voiced that much of what he had made, were things he himself wanted to have in Reason...that he in turn wanted to make available to others...

So not sure sure how much VST competition factors into that... Unless accounting for the development time/costs to beta test and continue to provide support and make sure those tools work for everybody (versus just for himself). Perhaps he still makes stuff, but only for personal use?

Hope he does release something again sometime in the future. Happy that all his products remain in the shop. Lots of great ones.

User avatar
MannequinRaces
Posts: 624
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

21 Sep 2018

I'd like to see Ochen K come back as well. I own quite a few of his REs and there's a few more I'd like to get. Hate to see a developer throw in the towel but it's his choice of course. Even with VST support I still buy REs instead of VSTs.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 5625
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, VA

21 Sep 2018

So that I'm not putting words in people's mouths, here's a post from last year in a similar thread
viewtopic.php?p=364152#p364152

User avatar
tumar
Posts: 312
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

21 Sep 2018

Yeah, man, come back. I can pay for serious Repeat Looper upgrade ;)

User avatar
kuhliloach
Posts: 544
Joined: 09 Dec 2015

21 Sep 2018

I too wish for more Ochen K.

OverneathTheSkyBridg
Posts: 197
Joined: 15 Jan 2016

22 Sep 2018

I have both the A Series Modulars, the EDS06 Drum Machine and the Glitch Effect. Absolutely awesome devices! I'd love to see an Ochen K take on a sequencer in the future, in case he's reading these.

MrFigg
Posts: 456
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

22 Sep 2018

Just sent Ochen K a link to this thread.
Come back man. You’re missed.

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 1824
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

22 Sep 2018

BTW, just in case he does read this I don't want this to seem in any way entitled. I wasn't 100% sure why he stopped and from the sounds of it, it's totally understandable. I'd still like to let the dude know his devices bring me some joy in what I do! But I know how it is. Gotta see to business and all that :)
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

HP Envy J130ea | i7 4700MQ | 12 GB DDR | 2GB GeForce 740m | Komplete Audio 6

User avatar
MarkTarlton
Posts: 296
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

22 Sep 2018

glitch is the best RE I have bought for the money considering how much I use it.

User avatar
jayhosking
Posts: 492
Joined: 28 Nov 2016
Contact:

22 Sep 2018

I use Chip64 pretty frequently. It sounds awfully pretty and it always pops in a mix.

User avatar
HeavyViper
Posts: 39
Joined: 26 Oct 2016
Location: Australia
Contact:

23 Sep 2018

Yeah, coming from a game music/chip background I'm a big fan of Chip64. I do keep running into an issue where it crashes after a project has been open for a long time, though. So, if anything, I'd like to see him come back and see about that. Although it does make for a good excuse to take a break... :V

I picked up Glitch quite recently and I'm quite happy with that too. Really great for chopping audio up into a lovely, rhythmic mess.

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1276
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

23 Sep 2018

joeyluck wrote:
21 Sep 2018
So that I'm not putting words in people's mouths, here's a post from last year in a similar thread
viewtopic.php?p=364152#p364152
He makes some valid points. When VST was introduced a lot of us felt it would spell the end for RE's. That hasn't happened. Not yet. But from what OchenK is saying here they were scarcely worth the effort in terms of financial return & offering something genuinely new for Reason users. I still prefer to buy an RE over a VST any day of the week. But as I thought at the time when VST support was announced - if we reach a point where it's no longer worth developers making RE's then they will stop making them. RE's will become the beta max of plug-in formats, which is a real shame as it's so so good for Reason. Hope it doesn't happen. But clearly it's happened for OchenK :(

User avatar
dioxide
Posts: 904
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

23 Sep 2018

Hmm. Sobering to read Ochen's response again in light of the fact he hasn't released a single RE since then. I knew the subscription model was bad news. Many VST devs seem to have stopped their RE development too eg. D16.

User avatar
joeyluck
Moderator
Posts: 5625
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: Richmond, VA

23 Sep 2018

I'd love to see more Ochen K devices, but again, he was a developer who had said that he just wanted to make REs he wanted—for his own personal use; and then in turn, make them available to others. And again, I do understand the cost of his resources such as effort and time to develop something further, and debug it so that the public can use it.... But I wasn't under the impression ever that he needed the RE business and pricing is low and probably only in place to recoup his time and effort.

I never saw his response necessarily as negative. I only saw it as someone who was a fan of many VSTs, and he wanted to put in the work to bring cool tools to us inspired by other plugins, and when those other plugins were supported, he felt less need to develop tools that already have an answer. It didn't come across to me so much as a business competition from VSTs, but rather just whether or not it was necessary for the tools he wanted to develop. Just like some patches I used to make using this and that synth combined with this utility and this effect...but now I have this new synth and I'm no longer making patches with those four other devices that I can make with the one synth. I'm not sure if he's still making REs for his own personal use, or if he's finding VSTs that answer all his demands.

That said, those RE developers looking for ways to innovate and who are invested in it for the business, will certainly continue to find ways to bring new products to the shop. It just simply does not seem like that type of venture for him. It seemed like he was just in it mostly for the creative aspect and for sharing something with the community that filled a gap. And I do believe that if he comes up with a unique idea that he feels worth sharing, then perhaps maybe we will see something again.

User avatar
CephaloPod
Posts: 232
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 Sep 2018

joeyluck wrote:
23 Sep 2018

That said, those RE developers looking for ways to innovate and who are invested in it for the business, will certainly continue to find ways to bring new products to the shop. It just simply does not seem like that type of venture for him. It seemed like he was just in it mostly for the creative aspect and for sharing something with the community that filled a gap. And I do believe that if he comes up with a unique idea that he feels worth sharing, then perhaps maybe we will see something again.
I can't imagine RE developers are making much money these days. But I don't really know.
2011 iMac i7; 24 GB RAM; OSX Sierra; Nektar LX 49; MOTU Microbook
Reason/Logic

User avatar
Faastwalker
Posts: 1276
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

24 Sep 2018

CephaloPod wrote:
24 Sep 2018
I can't imagine RE developers are making much money these days. But I don't really know.
I'm very encouraged by the Noise Engineering RE's. These were a very surprising & welcome development in the RE World. Hope we see more from these guys.

User avatar
JiggeryPokery
Posts: 931
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

24 Sep 2018

Faastwalker wrote:
23 Sep 2018
When VST was introduced a lot of us felt it would spell the end for RE's. That hasn't happened. Not yet. But from what OchenK is saying here they were scarcely worth the effort in terms of financial return & offering something genuinely new for Reason users. I still prefer to buy an RE over a VST any day of the week. But as I thought at the time when VST support was announced - if we reach a point where it's no longer worth developers making RE's then they will stop making them. RE's will become the beta max of plug-in formats, which is a real shame as it's so so good for Reason. Hope it doesn't happen. But clearly it's happened for OchenK :(
I released Steerpike 3 last month.

That's one of the two high-end delay devices in Reason. It's now absolutely Reason's equivalent of say, the classic PSP85 VST, but it's far more versatile and easy to program than that.

It's sold 3.

(And it cost me £750 to have done, and that was effectively mate's rates, so... but still that's a huge loss if I can't make that up come Black Friday).

The fundamental problem is that Propellerhead simply refuse to see RE devs as businesses and acknowledge and respond to our needs. We're a nuisance. (Or at least, maybe just I'm a nuisance :lol: ). But self-deprecating jokes aside, at the end of last February PH asked for feedback on SDK3. I wrote a detailed business case as to why Players needed a folded view. The response I got was that that they didn't want that sort of feedback, and I was "hostile" for even asking and "they" knew what Reason users wanted and I didn't. So they both effectively told me I'm not a Reason user because I need something they don't think Reason users want (huh?!) and confirmed in writing that they won't listen to or understand the needs of developers. I can't say more because of NDA (they'll perhaps say even that oversteps the line).

But this is important. They don't owe anyone a living, but they've created a system to supposedly support that possibility, then consistently undermine it. So this is my livelihood and thus the impacts of PH decisions are important to me and the refusal to acknowledge and understand the implications of their decisions speaks volumes.

Scuzzyeye and I spent nearly 18 months creating a potentially awesome Player device, and PH effectively rejected it before it even got finished because they weren't even willing to discuss our needs. They were, in their words, willing to discuss their reasons for doing it their way. That's not the same thing as offering devs support to produce products in the way we need to produce them to offers our users a useful an exciting tool. Six months on from that I'm still really upset about the way I was spoken to and I've been pretty damn depressed again ever since.

So as a format, I'm afraid RE are moreorless done. I've got a couple of things I'm working on something now but neither is going to make enough money to pay the mortgage.

Scuzzy and I have spent the summer doing Harmonic Synthesizer 2 (I reckon Scuzzy's saved up to 25% CPU in a revised AA-algo!) and remarkably Propellerhead don't want this released either: I asked PH to implement a really easy bug fix a few months back so I can offer the changable panels. An over-zealous check in the build tool stops it building. It was dismissed as "not a bug", even though the design guidelines clearly state what I'm trying to do is allowed. I quite reasonably pointed this out and like with the folded Players, made the business case for why it needs to be fixed not just for me, but for all developers.

I never heard back.

I can't pay Aron or Scuzzy for their brilliant work if these things aren't in the shop, so I end up feeling even more upset and guilty that I've wasted their time. :puf_unhappy:
Attachments
jps_3-view-gif.gif
jps_3-view-gif.gif (521.91 KiB) Viewed 524 times
Last edited by JiggeryPokery on 24 Sep 2018, edited 6 times in total.

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 3812
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

24 Sep 2018

JiggeryPokery wrote:
24 Sep 2018
Faastwalker wrote:
23 Sep 2018
When VST was introduced a lot of us felt it would spell the end for RE's. That hasn't happened. Not yet. But from what OchenK is saying here they were scarcely worth the effort in terms of financial return & offering something genuinely new for Reason users. I still prefer to buy an RE over a VST any day of the week. But as I thought at the time when VST support was announced - if we reach a point where it's no longer worth developers making RE's then they will stop making them. RE's will become the beta max of plug-in formats, which is a real shame as it's so so good for Reason. Hope it doesn't happen. But clearly it's happened for OchenK :(
I released Steerpike 3 last month.

That's one of the two high-end delay devices in Reason. It's now Reason equivalent of say, the PSP85 VST, but it's far more versatile and easy to program.

It's sold 3.

(And it cost me £750 to have done, and that was effectively mate's rates, so... but still that's a huge loss if I can't make that up come Black Friday).

The fundamental problem is that Propellerhead simply refuse to see RE devs as businesses and acknowledge and respond to our needs. We're a nuisance. (Or at least, maybe just I'm a nuisance :lol: ). But self-deprecating jokes aside, at the end of last February PH asked for feedback on SDK3. I wrote a detailed business case as to why Players needed a folded view. The response I got was that that they didn't want that sort of feedback, and I was "hostile" for even asking and "they" knew what Reason users wanted and I didn't. So they both effectively told me I'm not a Reason user because I need something they don't think Reason users want (huh?!) and confirmed in writing that they won't listen to or understand the needs of developers. I can't say more because of NDA (they'll perhaps say even that oversteps the line).

But this important.

Scuzzyeye and I spent nearly 18 months creating a potentially awesome Player device, and PH effectively rejected it before it even got finished because they weren't even willing to discuss our needs. They were, in their words, willing to discuss their reasons for doing it their way. That's not the same thing as offering devs support to produce products in the way we need to produce them to offers our users a useful an exciting tool. Six months on from that I'm still really upset about the way I was spoken to and I've been pretty damn depressed again ever since.

So as a format, I'm afraid RE are moreorless done. I've got a couple of things I'm working on something now but neither is not going to make enough money to pay the mortgage.

Scuzzy and I have spent the summer doing Harmonic Synthesizer 2 (I reckon Scuzzy's saved up to 25% CPU in a revised AA-algo!) and Propellerhead don't that either: I asked PH to implement a really easy bug fix a few months back so I do could an update the Harmonic Synthesizer. An over-zealous check in the build tool stops it building. It was dismissed as "not a bug", even though the design guidelines clearly state what we're trying to do is allowed, which I quite reasonably pointed out and like with the folded Players, made the business case for why it needs to be fixed.

I never heard back.


I can't pay Scuzzy for his brilliant work if these things aren't in the shop, so I end up feeling even more upset and guilty that I've wasted his time. :puf_unhappy:
Well, this one is mostly for stupid architects in software development, but its a good general metaphor for ppl that lost the contact.
03fig01.jpg
03fig01.jpg (40.27 KiB) Viewed 534 times


I hope you get your invest back, because i want you to create such great products in future too! Good luck!
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
eXode
Posts: 638
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

24 Sep 2018

JiggeryPokery wrote:
24 Sep 2018
I released Steerpike 3 last month.

That's one of the two high-end delay devices in Reason. It's now absolutely Reason's equivalent of say, the classic PSP85 VST, but it's far more versatile and easy to program than that.

It's sold 3.

(And it cost me £750 to have done, and that was effectively mate's rates, so... but still that's a huge loss if I can't make that up come Black Friday).

The fundamental problem is that Propellerhead simply refuse to see RE devs as businesses and acknowledge and respond to our needs. We're a nuisance. (Or at least, maybe just I'm a nuisance :lol: ). But self-deprecating jokes aside, at the end of last February PH asked for feedback on SDK3. I wrote a detailed business case as to why Players needed a folded view. The response I got was that that they didn't want that sort of feedback, and I was "hostile" for even asking and "they" knew what Reason users wanted and I didn't. So they both effectively told me I'm not a Reason user because I need something they don't think Reason users want (huh?!) and confirmed in writing that they won't listen to or understand the needs of developers. I can't say more because of NDA (they'll perhaps say even that oversteps the line).

But this is important. They don't owe anyone a living, but they've created a system to supposedly support that possibility, then consistently undermine it. So this is my livelihood and thus the impacts of PH decisions are important to me and the refusal to acknowledge and understand the implications of their decisions speaks volumes.

Scuzzyeye and I spent nearly 18 months creating a potentially awesome Player device, and PH effectively rejected it before it even got finished because they weren't even willing to discuss our needs. They were, in their words, willing to discuss their reasons for doing it their way. That's not the same thing as offering devs support to produce products in the way we need to produce them to offers our users a useful an exciting tool. Six months on from that I'm still really upset about the way I was spoken to and I've been pretty damn depressed again ever since.

So as a format, I'm afraid RE are moreorless done. I've got a couple of things I'm working on something now but neither is going to make enough money to pay the mortgage.

Scuzzy and I have spent the summer doing Harmonic Synthesizer 2 (I reckon Scuzzy's saved up to 25% CPU in a revised AA-algo!) and remarkably Propellerhead don't want this released either: I asked PH to implement a really easy bug fix a few months back so I can offer the changable panels. An over-zealous check in the build tool stops it building. It was dismissed as "not a bug", even though the design guidelines clearly state what I'm trying to do is allowed. I quite reasonably pointed this out and like with the folded Players, made the business case for why it needs to be fixed not just for me, but for all developers.

I never heard back.

I can't pay Aron or Scuzzy for their brilliant work if these things aren't in the shop, so I end up feeling even more upset and guilty that I've wasted their time. :puf_unhappy:
:(

User avatar
normen
Posts: 3429
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

24 Sep 2018

Hey, since I'm a fan of conspiracy theories how about this one.

Lets say the low sales on REs are taken as a reason to scrap first the RE format and then the rack in Reason. From what I see thats such a tempting solution right now.. Let it bleed out and then remake Reason in the image of all other DAWs. It would solve the resolution issue - which is bigger than some might realize, esp in relation to REs - and it would allow them to shake off the "toy" image they still have. Although maybe for that they should drop the name Propellerhead altogether? ;)

And they could actually pull this off relatively elegantly by simply making RE a VST development platform (Europa VST, nudge, nudge). The devs could basically use their existing RE code and compile VSTs from that so they wouldn't completely lose their investment (or shit for that matter).

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests