Ochen K?

[avasopht]

Well it was a brilliant run.

Best of luck Ochen K.

[jayhosking]

REs are ideal for my workflow, and I only use a few VSTs where there is no comparable alternative in Reason (e.g. RComp from the Waves bundle). I love REs and will continue to purchase them when they offer something new, exciting, or inspiring to the Reason experience.

Chip64 rules. It was the very first RE I bought and got me into the world of non-PH devices in the rack. It did exactly what it promised and made me excited for Reason in a whole new way. It's a shame to hear that OchenK won't be developing any more, but I'm forever grateful for the work he's done.

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

I've been playing with Grain the last few days. It is cool in and of itself, but after a while it becomes apparent it's rather a one-trick one pony. It does one thing quite well, but then gets a bit samey and the omissions start to become apparent. Heck, it doesn't even have reverse sample playback (other than manually using Sample Edit, but that would be a workaround using a general Reason tool, not a synth feature and so not something you can change on-the-fly, it's an either/or decision, short of creating two devices). So the grains and spectral edit are cool features for sure, and it absolutely offers something not otherwise native to Reason, and as such may be worth the upgrade in and of itself to a lot of people. But it is limited, and together with Europa, I suspect many developers—as I'm sure Ochen, whose spot-on assessment yesterday rebooted this thread, also knows—are well aware they were clearly designed to rip off the best bits of two or three sample-loading REs as native devices that can run more efficiently than any RE will ever be able to. And it's strange how much devs are told PH want to boost RE sales, yet they neuter the market with similar native devices, thus reducing the need for RE purchases, for desperately short-termist goals like subscriptions and VST support. Don't buy that whole "VST was decided long before Verdane" line. Given that VST support for Reason (or my guess here, it was a proposed feature for Record 1.0) was originally designed, to some extent at least, back in 2007, then yes, it's literally true, as it was decided long, long before Verdane!

What many fail to realise with those kinds of carefully worded official statements, is that it's very specifically not the same as the decision to actually implement VST support when it was, and that can only have been for it to have been placed on the table as either a demand from Verdane last year, or, vastly more likely, as a very large and specific carrot for all potential investors in a pie-chart infused PowerPoint presentation* as early as Summer 2016. Investments don't have happen overnight, and we know from MHG's own posts that he was pushing hard for VST support, despite the fact that SDK2.5 was being worked on at the time, a clear conflict-of-interest imho. Given that the VST support release was right after SDK2.5 launched, it's hard to come to any other conclusion than VST support was added when it was specifically in order to faciliate investment from someone. Any sensible business plan would have dictated giving SDK2.5 a chance to bed in and resolve new issues, and effectively amortize itself through new REs, but there was demonstrably never any serious intention to do that once it was decided to get that investment and buy-out.

Couple things:

• VST support came to be because it was the number one feature request and the things that kept the most people from checking out Reason. When I became Product Manager, all research I did pointed toward it being essentials for Reason as a DAW.
• Europa and Grain are Rack Extensions built with the same SDK you have access to but presented as native devices for ease of use. In other words, they are not running more efficiently because of the platform. We eat our own dog food, so to speak.
• When designing Europa, we actually tried hard to differentiate it from eXpanse—not rip anything off. Expanse is a great synth in its own right and still unique next to Europa. When designing these instruments we primarily looked at user needs and the market at large, not specific products.
• I personally still don't think VST is a conflict of interest with REs in the long run. My hope was (and still is) that it becomes very apparent why we created REs to begin with. Personally, after getting a lot of VSTs for testing purposes, I've ended up just using three or four. The rest of my devices are REs. It's just easier to work with in the Reason environment.
• We'll keep updating the Rack Extension SDK and platform. We believe in it and it does amazing things that no other plug-in format does.

Wow - thanx for the response Mattias! I now have eXpanse and I'm pleased to say, I still love Europa for what it is. Different sets of tools in the toolbox. And yes, please keep updating the SDK

[Biolumin3sc3nt]

I also want to add - Ochen K was a pioneer back in the wild wild west of RE's. Thank You for your efforts dude

[friday]

I am so frustrated with all this Propellerhead bashing over the last years... (thanks Mattias that you still comment)

Reason 10 is so much fun at the moment. It is one of the first times I can be sure that if shit music is coming out, that I am the problem not Reason! Because I now have all the possibilities, super creative workflow, cool new native instruments, nice mixing console, creative RE's, VST Synths, CV, external synths with midi and analog feeling with UAD (yea bad performance, but it works for me)... shit boys i am in the flow again ! Thanks, Phads!

Then I have to say something about the weeping RE developers... I have bought so much RE's ... from all of you who had answered to this post! And I really like your work. But this here is confusing me, most of your work was still already released in the VST world, I am not sure if you earned more money in the VST area... self-marketing, more competitor, no copy protection (or a lot of work for that) and so on... As an example, if you released expanse in the VST area I think you never came out of the light of all the other VST competitors. RE is maybe a little market but you do have much less rivalry and problems to solve!

And again, thank you Props for all the courageous decisions you made in the last years. Now for me it is time to see all the little improvements (workflow and performance), perfect for 10.5

Peace

[Faastwalker]

• VST support came to be because it was the number one feature request and the things that kept the most people from checking out Reason. When I became Product Manager, all research I did pointed toward it being essentials for Reason as a DAW.
• Europa and Grain are Rack Extensions built with the same SDK you have access to but presented as native devices for ease of use. In other words, they are not running more efficiently because of the platform. We eat our own dog food, so to speak.
• When designing Europa, we actually tried hard to differentiate it from eXpanse—not rip anything off. Expanse is a great synth in its own right and still unique next to Europa. When designing these instruments we primarily looked at user needs and the market at large, not specific products.
• I personally still don't think VST is a conflict of interest with REs in the long run. My hope was (and still is) that it becomes very apparent why we created REs to begin with. Personally, after getting a lot of VSTs for testing purposes, I've ended up just using three or four. The rest of my devices are REs. It's just easier to work with in the Reason environment.
• We'll keep updating the Rack Extension SDK and platform. We believe in it and it does amazing things that no other plug-in format does.

All sounds very encouraging an positive. I'm not sure how things will pan out in reality but I hope you are close to the mark.

To respond to your comments if I may - I'm pretty sure when VST was announced half the Reason user base believed it would mean the end of RE, myself included. I don't want this to be the case as I love Reason & I love RE's. For me the way RE's work in the Reason rack is utterly sublime. The VST implementation was also amazingly well done but I'd still rather RE over VST any day of the week. I've never been a fan of VST and have only ever bought about 3 commercial VST's and used a bunch of freebies since I first got hold of Cubase VST many, many moons ago.

In Reason I have ImpOSCar & about 5 free VST's. Not really interested beyond that but I have bought a lot of RE's. My main concern with VST, as with many others, is the impact their inclusion in Reason will have on RE development. RE is better for Reason than VST. But that alone is not enough. RE's need to sell in order for them to be viable for developers to make. And as we have heard from OchenK (and I suspect JiggeryPokery shares a similarly bleak outlook) it's just not worth him bothering with RE anymore. This from one of the most prolific & fantastic independent RE developers out there. How many others are in the same position? The future looks pretty bleak for RE from where I am standing. I hope I'm wrong but right now RE feels a bit like a really, really good gaming console .......... that not many people are making games for anymore

[Psuper]

I could make a huge effort in showing exactly what is happening and why, but it's not worth it frankly I don't think those who should be listening are. The writing was on the walls long before this last update which I was plenty vocal about.

Propellerhead needed to focus on their ' Reason the CORE DAW': 1 GUI. 2. Performance. 3. Options. 4. Back-end. Not 'Reason The Competition' to its own RE platform developers or 'Reason the Rewired Instrument'.

As a die-hard Reason user, I always had a strong desire to support both Propellerhead and developers associated with Propellerhead, and spent plenty doing so. Many of us felt that way. I no longer feel that way about Propellerhead, and it's a sad rippling effect that will hit the developers even harder.

Some people feel vst support is a major issue, it's not. If you were even slightly about making music with Reason as your primary DAW, you knew and used midiloopback for many years without fail: I've had 'vst' support in Reason forever, it's just now native. Certainly many new users may not have that same desire to support REs or see the value in supporting this platform of choice due to vsts (and r10 was about bringing fresh blood into the platform), but Reason has a rabid fan base that, unfortunately, is becoming more disenfranchised with Propellerhead. That's the problem.

I don't think it's beyond repair, but it's dangerously close. And as I stated before, it's up to Propellerhead -- it's their bed and they'll alone lay in it.

[normen]

[*] I personally still don't think VST is a conflict of interest with REs in the long run. My hope was (and still is) that it becomes very apparent why we created REs to begin with. Personally, after getting a lot of VSTs for testing purposes, I've ended up just using three or four. The rest of my devices are REs. It's just easier to work with in the Reason environment.

Or the other way around - new users might think "why the fuck do I always have to go into this low-res POS rack to do stuff?". Or "Why do these VSTs use more CPU in Reason - Reason sucks". Instead of seeing that Reason is simply different. Adding instrument support I would have understood - plugins is just opening the floodgates. Somebody who's been wowed by Uaudios or Waves paid Endorsers won't want to use Pulveriser or the SSL FX in Reason.

I mean apparently it even hurts the small developers as we see. The RE market is pretty small. The big developers will look very closely if they hire a new developer to maintain a separate code (and UI!) base for REs and now that theres VST support - why would they? Because some see that REs would be cooler to use in the rack?

I do think theres a conflict of interest. Back in the day with Macintosh software you could make some money even though only some 3 to 5 percent of computer users used Macs. Even with BeOS software you could make some money. That was because you might have been the only one offering a certain kind of software for that platform. Because you had no competition you could sell your software to ALL users that needed this kind of software. Thats how people can survive in small software markets, be the main seller (or sell for a high price).

Anyway its there now and I personally don't mind, its cool if you know how to wield it. I don't think its good for the general perception of Reason though.

[Zac]

I could make a huge effort in showing exactly what is happening and why, but it's not worth it frankly I don't think those who should be listening are. The writing was on the walls long before this last update which I was plenty vocal about.

Propellerhead needed to focus on their ' Reason the CORE DAW': 1 GUI. 2. Performance. 3. Options. 4. Back-end. Not 'Reason The Competition' to its own RE platform developers or 'Reason the Rewired Instrument'.

As a die-hard Reason user, I always had a strong desire to support both Propellerhead and developers associated with Propellerhead, and spent plenty doing so. Many of us felt that way. I no longer feel that way about Propellerhead, and it's a sad rippling effect that will hit the developers even harder.

Some people feel vst support is a major issue, it's not. If you were even slightly about making music with Reason as your primary DAW, you knew and used midiloopback for many years without fail: I've had 'vst' support in Reason forever, it's just now native. Certainly many new users may not have that same desire to support REs or see the value in supporting this platform of choice due to vsts (and r10 was about bringing fresh blood into the platform), but Reason has a rabid fan base that, unfortunately, is becoming more disenfranchised with Propellerhead. That's the problem.

I don't think it's beyond repair, but it's dangerously close. And as I stated before, it's up to Propellerhead -- it's their bed and they'll alone lay in it.

I think this doesn't really add up to anything at all. Read it a few times and all you get is some bad feeling.

[ochenk]

This is a really interesting read.

I sort of understand the preference of REs over VSTs, but I think that’s more in theory than practice. If a developer made a synth and released it in VST and RE formats, and they were the same, then totally, get the RE. It’ll be a better experience in Reason. But the reality is that the choice is usually between a better VST product versus a necessarily cut-down RE version, and that’s a tougher call to make.

For example, I made Chip64 because I wanted some chip emulation, not just sample playback. And I wanted a few modulation and sequencing options that wouldn’t be possible with samples. So I made it. And it’s $40. However, in my opinion, the best chip emulation product on the market is Plogue’s chipsounds. It’s fantastic. It was total overkill for what I needed. But if Reason supported VST at the time, I would have just spent the $95 on that and never made Chip64.

Now, I didn’t go into it thinking that I wanted to make a simpler version of chipsounds. Rather, I wanted to make the best chip emulation that had ever existed in Reason up to that point, and I dare say, I did that. It’s not perfect by any means. But it brought something new to Reason. Now, with VSTs, there’s hardly anything new to bring. Nearly every RE idea I can think of has a VST version already. Can I think of ways to improve it? Sure. Would it be nice if there was a comparable RE version? Totally. But do I want to just develop and potentially improve devices that already exist just for the sake of making them native REs? Not really.

And then there’s the money part. Yes, overall sales for me are down since VST. But the big loss comes from subscriptions and rigs. If you buy Chip64 at full price, I see about $25 of that $40. (The other $15 is Prop’s cut.) But if you “rent” Chip64 as part of a subscription, I get 50 cents a month. That’s it. A $40 product, and I see 50 cents. Now sure, I get that 50 cents every month, but who’s going to keep that subscription going, month after month, for the 4 years it’ll take for me to break even? No one, that’s who.

I think the hope is that people who may not have purchased Chip64 outright will add it as part of a subscription. I don’t particularly believe that, but even if that’s true, 50 cents a month means nothing to me. We are many many orders of magnitude below any volume that makes 50 cents add up to anything meaningful.

But I want to be really clear. None of this is a criticism of Reason. Reason is still the best thing around. VST support is great for users. And subscriptions are a steal for users. If you’re not using subscriptions, you should. It’s a great way to get a lot of product for very little money. This is just an explanation of how the RE developer landscape has changed, at least for me.

That’s not to say that there aren’t ways to revive the RE developer landscape. In my mind, the biggest way to do so is to make the RE format have actual functional value over VSTs. There is essentially nothing that REs can do that VSTs can’t. But if there were things, then there would be a reason (a “value proposition” if you will) for REs to exist. For example, VSTs can’t do send-to-track in Reason like a Matrix can. VSTs can’t nest in Reason like the Combinator. VSTs can’t be used as players in Reason. VSTs can’t do native polyphonic CV in Reason. VSTs can’t pre-read the sequencer in Reason. Now, REs can’t do any of these things either, but they could. Props could add all of this to the SDK. And if they did so, I’d be back on board making REs.

I do think it says a lot that we have three significant RE developers in this thread saying that the RE ecosystem doesn't make sense as a development platform anymore. I don't know what to do with that, but it seems important.

But again, Reason 10 is a fantastic product.

And while I’m at it, I think version 10 a totally worthy update from 9.x.

I remember back to the early updates. Version 3’s big updates were the Combinator and the MClass suite. Version 4’s big ones were Thor, a new sequencer, and RPG8. Version 5’s were OctoRex, Kong, and Neptune. And so on. Those were all great updates. Version 10 has Europa, and Grain as the big ones, plus Klang, Pangea, and Humana as all new included instruments. That’s a big update. Plus, there is a very large group of users (maybe the majority?) that heavily rely on presets. I know that when I was making RE synths, users kept asking for more presets. For those people, doubling the amount of unique, usable presets for a synth doubles the value of that synth. So the huge content update in version 10 is a big deal for a lot of people.

Alright. I’m starting to feel like an old guy yelling at the television.

TLDR: Reason is awesome. RE development doesn’t make sense any more. It could if the SDK developed significantly. But Reason is still awesome.

[MarkTarlton]

50 cents a month for a subscription is really LOW for your RE that cost 40 dollars...I feel ya!

[Loque]

50 cents a month for a subscription is really LOW for your RE that cost 40 dollars...I feel ya!

Easy calculation: 9€ per Month for 400€ value. RE costs 40€ makes 0.90€ per month. PH wants its part from this 0.90€ and the result (depending on PHs fee) is something around 0.40€, that makes 4€ in one year and requires 10 years for full price and around 6 years considering what Ochen said.

If you have 1000€ subscriptions per month around 80€ for just your REs makes 800€ per moth. To make a living after taxes of that you need at least 3000 subscriptions with that value each month. Sure you can hack a bit comparing costs and income... A developer (depending on country) can easily cost 10,000€ per month. So if you have a company with a few devs, you can continue this calculation and see how many subscriptions with what value you need to survive.

I dont have any numbers how many Reason user exists, but i guess something around 20.000 world wide. Compared to VST DAWs are probably a big bunch of more users. Not saying you have automatically more money, because there a trillion of free VSTs available you need to compete against. The only chance to make RE survive is a easy way to migrate between RE and VST IMO. That would open the market for RE devs and best choice for users to get a RE version and probably a VST for free for there other DAWs. A lot of users of Reason would choose a RE over a VST in this situation.

[jayhosking]

Thanks so much to all who are chiming in here! It's been really great and interesting to read.

For example, I made Chip64 because I wanted some chip emulation, not just sample playback. And I wanted a few modulation and sequencing options that wouldn’t be possible with samples. So I made it. And it’s $40. However, in my opinion, the best chip emulation product on the market is Plogue’s chipsounds. It’s fantastic. It was total overkill for what I needed. But if Reason supported VST at the time, I would have just spent the $95 on that and never made Chip64.

Again, I don't pretend to know whether I represent the typical Reason user or RE buyer, but for what it's worth, I am far more likely to purchase REs versus VSTs for the following reasons:
- integrated, faster workflow in Reason
- price point is usually lower
- I can trial the full version of the RE for a month through the same authentication system I'm already using
- there are no outside log-ins or signing up

Furthermore, I would probably always opt for smaller, more focused devices over larger, super-comprehensive units. Chipsounds seems awesome, but I don't want all that and I certainly am not going to pay a hundred dollars for it when I can get Chip64 for half that. If anything, I want even more modular building blocks than we already have; I wish the Props would break out the effects and filter sections of the R10 synths so I could apply them to anything.

VSTs are often such a pain in the ass, and I can't even imagine how much more of a pain they're going to be when I need to migrate to my next computer. Everything within the Propellerhead ecosystem, though, is available to sync from the website with just a few clicks, and will just work together.

The only VSTs I see myself buying in the future are ones that fill a niche that currently isn't filled by REs.

So again, thanks to all developers for making great units (Props included). I am endlessly inspired by this program and the REs out there. I sincerely hope there are many more to be made.

[Zac]

I hear the voices of Jiggery-Pokery and Ochen K etc. And i feel their pain. The Props have kinda undermined RE developers. I own a lot of REs and they cost me a fair penny. If i was starting now I'd get the three rigs and save a fortune.

It's not just developers who have been undercut.

I really hope that RE devs get some fire power back by the props improving the sdk in ways such as Ochen suggests above^

[EdGrip]

One potential source of hope is that the inclusion of VSTs will attract lots of new users and significantly grow the user base.
It's a small user base forced to use REs vs a bigger user base with the option to use REs. Right now, we're in between. We've not had time for many new users to arrive yet, and all the existing users are proccupied exploring and buying all the VSTs they've always wondered about. Under any circumstances, this was always going to be a flat spot for RE devs.
We all know, from reading different forums, that a great many people dismissed Reason because they couldn't use their VST collection, or couldn't use Serum, or whatever. It was a deal-breaker, even if they liked the idea of trying Reason. I don't think we can overstate what a barrier to growth that must have been. If it took an investor to press the issue, so be it. I don't want to get back into the 9.5 "VSTs are bad for Reason!" threads, other than to say VSTs are obviously good for Reason.

Edit: And then there's subscriptions, which is a separate thing. I'm not a fan, and it sounds like a major kick in the teeth for our devs too.

[Gorgon]

Negative comment removed after reviewing it.

Instead, I'll say something positive. I just bought 4Mer to show support for OchenK.

[FLVZ]

Thanks so much to all who are chiming in here! It's been really great and interesting to read.

I second this.

I also believe it sounds like any future REs have, should incorporate a system whereby Props and RE devs are actually working on the SDK r&d together. As in some kind of progressive committee so as to create a synergistic link between source and content. There are so many knowledgeable devs & designers here with extensive understanding of sound hardware and software surely their incorporation can lead to giant strides of innovation going forward?

[Goodbye]

I think it comes down to a few key things:

Problem: RE developers are clearly not happy with recent developments - they've gone from a protected eco-system to competing against VSTs. That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if:
- The RE SDK allowed them to compete with VSTs.
- The RE SDK allowed them to do things that VSTs can't do.
- Buying an RE didn't mean buying something you can no longer sell or trade (this to me is just an indefensible position now that they are competing with VSTs).
- They were paid a decent amount for subscription services.

Solution:
- Improve the RE SDK
- Allow people to sell/trade REs
- Pay the developers properly

The last two points are really indefensible. The first seems like a no-brainer.

I think this whole process has been completely bungled. Whether due to pressure from the now major shareholder or just incompetence I don't know, but it is damaging the platform we all love. Lets face it - that's why we are posting to this forum - because we care about Reason and its eco-system. For some because it earns their keep, for others because they love creating with it. I've been using it since I got talking to another student during a fire-alarm and went back to his room for a smoke, only to find Rebirth on his PC screen. That was in 2000. I have no interest in using other DAWs and I'm not interested in VSTs, I love Reason and I love REs. For me the modular aspect was always the thing that set it apart. It's really sad to see something so wonderful being so neglected, and such bad decisions being made. And it isn't just a few people - there is so much bad feeling out there, whether on social media or elsewhere. It feels like Propellerhead are making a clumsy attempt to increase their user base, but are really going to do the opposite. I hope I'm completely wrong. I hope Propellerhead are hearing rather than just listening. I hope they'll come out with something that will shut me up and maybe even maybe feel guilty for all the complaining I'm doing.

[dioxide]

I sympathise with RE devs that have been hit by the subscription model. I sell digital goods through various outlets and one of them sells via subscription. For some 'sales' I'm not even seeing 10 cents. The development time for these product is very long and requires a lot of skill. As soon as I am able to I'm going to pull out of this contract.

Subscriptions are customer friendly and companies are experimenting with this model, but unfortunately they kill the viability of certain products, ultimately offering the customer less.

[Psuper]

I could make a huge effort in showing exactly what is happening and why, but it's not worth it frankly I don't think those who should be listening are. The writing was on the walls long before this last update which I was plenty vocal about.

Propellerhead needed to focus on their ' Reason the CORE DAW': 1 GUI. 2. Performance. 3. Options. 4. Back-end. Not 'Reason The Competition' to its own RE platform developers or 'Reason the Rewired Instrument'.

As a die-hard Reason user, I always had a strong desire to support both Propellerhead and developers associated with Propellerhead, and spent plenty doing so. Many of us felt that way. I no longer feel that way about Propellerhead, and it's a sad rippling effect that will hit the developers even harder.

Some people feel vst support is a major issue, it's not. If you were even slightly about making music with Reason as your primary DAW, you knew and used midiloopback for many years without fail: I've had 'vst' support in Reason forever, it's just now native. Certainly many new users may not have that same desire to support REs or see the value in supporting this platform of choice due to vsts (and r10 was about bringing fresh blood into the platform), but Reason has a rabid fan base that, unfortunately, is becoming more disenfranchised with Propellerhead. That's the problem.

I don't think it's beyond repair, but it's dangerously close. And as I stated before, it's up to Propellerhead -- it's their bed and they'll alone lay in it.

I think this doesn't really add up to anything at all. Read it a few times and all you get is some bad feeling.

Maybe you expect a mind-blowing thought-inducing post every single time from me, but I typically save those for the times it matters. This one is just a recap of what I stated was going to happen, before it happened, in an effort to help stop it from continuing.

And quite on-point without even adding my personal complaints or praises, of which I have many.

[Tumble]

Imagine where plugins would be today if Steinberg had only made VST either a Cubase-only format or one that required licensing fees.

Just sayin'.

[Lov2sing]

Ok I really understand both the developers and PH sides. The hard part is dealing with an ever evolving system which is hard when there is over twenty other systems to choose from with other companies jumping on the CV band wagon. Softube has their CV system which looks more like a real modular system. Not to say they did not get the ideal from giving into PH RE’s and to figure out how they could enter the marketplace with their own CV system. Now Softube and Cubase have joined forces and now CB’s applications is on Softube Console 1. IMO the devs need to cross platforms and add AU so at least Apple will have a second platform if that is possible. My second thought is allow only the older RE’s to be part of the subscription format. I own over 200 RE’s to support the format and even I feel all that money was somewhat wasted due to the fact some RE’s were not supported for long periods of time due to devs have dropped out. Yet I will continue to spend on RE’s if they put out things that I need or feel is a good investment. Lastly PH needs to address being hooked up with a hardware manufacturer to give the users a hands on experience like Softube. I would love to own Console 1 if it was a true dedicated system for Reason. As far as VST’s I only get what RE’s are not available. Saying that we need to allow PH to address everything in there time frame. I’m getting R10 it’s great to me and when 11 comes out I know I will get that Lord willing. Dev’s you have to be like myself when I had to reinvent my company to substain it for 20 years and if you want to compete you will have to do the same. Soup companies don’t change what’s inside the can but do change the packaging unless what’s in the can has become stagnant. No one buys yours, mine or any other product if it is not changing with the times. Just my 2 cent worth for I can’t afford anymore for I’m upgrading to R10 at the end of the month.

[selig]

Imagine where plugins would be today if Steinberg had only made VST either a Cubase-only format or one that required licensing fees.

Just sayin'.

Look at Digidesign/Avid (Pro Tools), which developed the DAW plugin concept three years before there were such a thing as VSTs. While the initial format has evolved from TDM to RTAS to AAX, they are still very much around. Not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing - just "a" thing!

[jayhosking]

Solution:
- Allow people to sell/trade REs

This would almost certainly make things worse for RE developers and ensure that money is going into others' hands rather than developers'. Like subscriptions, it's one of those requests that I've seen bandied about on message boards, but ultimately it's serving the user in the short term and hurting the smaller developers in the long term, ultimately hurting everyone in the long term. A 30-day trial, plus relatively cheap buy-in prices, plus a probably irrevocable (for the time being) subscription model is more than adequate for the user. Let's not throw the sales of used REs into the mix. The users are fine and getting so much amazing content at such a low entry point. Let's find a way to adequately pay RE developers for their work and effort, and encourage more of it.

[joeyluck]

Not to take away or discredit the opinions and experiences of the developers who have chimed in here, but everybody should keep in mind that these are the experiences and opinions of these particular developers. I see many forum members treating some statements as representing the entire RE dev community and drawing conclusions on the state of things based solely on those comments.