Abandoned Rack Extensions

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selig
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Post 10 Jun 2022

Shoukz wrote:
10 Jun 2022
selig wrote:
09 Jun 2022
NOTHING is ‘future proof’!
yep, especially when they said it will be
Or not, if they didn’t say it would be…
;)
Selig Audio, LLC

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MrFigg
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022
Shoukz wrote:
09 Jun 2022
how can you share a combinator preset that contain RE users can't bought anymore ?

you can't,

so RE are not futur proof.

end of the discussion.
Why would you want to share a patch with someone who doesn't have one of the plugins? Sounds like an awfully mean thing to do :thumbs_down:
I’m going to put RE-2A in all my combis now…well only the ones I’m gonna share. I’m funny like that :).
丰2ॐ

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orthodox
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Post 10 Jun 2022

joeyluck wrote:
10 Jun 2022
If we're talking about forcing devs to keep their products in the shop forever, I definitely do not support that. Of course devs should have the freedom to manage their products. The future proofing of products is about having the products you have purchased continue to work in future versions of Reason.
Devs can't be forced to keep the existing products in the shop legally, that would be ex post facto. But even if they remove it from the shop, RS will still be providing downloads to those who purchased it.
Distribution Agreement wrote: Reason Studios is entitled to allow End Users to access and re-access copies of the RSPPs. If these Terms terminates for any reason, the Developer grants Reason Studios an eternal, non-exclusive, non-revocable, non-transferable license to store the RSPP and to provide End Users, that have already purchased, rented-to-own or subscribed to the RSPP, access and re-access to copies of the RSPP ...

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selig
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Post 10 Jun 2022

rootwheel wrote:
10 Jun 2022
The whole future proofing of this compatibility does fall apart when REs are able to disappear for some but not for others. It's actually worse than what happened to ReFills - at least you could sometimes find a copy of those floating around the internet. With REs you have no way of getting discontinued ones at all.
I understand that some REs are discontinued, but not how that applies to ‘future proof’. I guess it depends on how you define ‘future proof’. If you have an RE, you have it into the (foreseeable) future, so it is future proof in as much as anything is future proof, right?

BUT not if you try to extend that argument to ANYONE being able at ANY point in the future to use the same discontinued RE you have. Another example - if I make my own samples and use them in a song, then you cannot load that song now or any time in the future - but isn’t the song still ‘future proof’ for ME? And isn’t that what we’re talking about when we use that term? If not, then what exactly does “future proof” mean in this context? Sounds like some of us are using the term one way, and others are using it a different way - thus the ‘confusion’ over what is future proof…
Selig Audio, LLC

Shoukz
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Post 10 Jun 2022

avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022
Shoukz wrote:
09 Jun 2022
how can you share a combinator preset that contain RE users can't bought anymore ?

you can't,

so RE are not futur proof.

end of the discussion.
Why would you want to share a patch with someone who doesn't have one of the plugins? Sounds like an awfully mean thing to do :thumbs_down:
seriously boys is just that hard to understand that nothing can be trully shared if other peoples can't get access to the RE included in a combi patch?

and then some people doesn't understand why I prefer to stop talking about that.

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MrFigg
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Post 10 Jun 2022

Shoukz wrote:
10 Jun 2022
avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022


Why would you want to share a patch with someone who doesn't have one of the plugins? Sounds like an awfully mean thing to do :thumbs_down:
seriously boys is just that hard to understand that nothing can be trully shared if other peoples can't get access to the RE included in a combi patch?

and then some people doesn't understand why I prefer to stop talking about that.
You’re still talking about it though.
丰2ॐ

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selig
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Post 10 Jun 2022

Shoukz wrote:
10 Jun 2022
avasopht wrote:
10 Jun 2022


Why would you want to share a patch with someone who doesn't have one of the plugins? Sounds like an awfully mean thing to do :thumbs_down:
seriously boys is just that hard to understand that nothing can be trully shared if other peoples can't get access to the RE included in a combi patch?

and then some people doesn't understand why I prefer to stop talking about that.
I think any confusion is coming from conflating “sharing” with “future proof”, which has a different meaning.
And I don’t think anyone disagrees that if you can’t load a patch because of a missing RE you can’t share it ‘perfectly’. :)
Selig Audio, LLC

dakta
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Post 10 Jun 2022

"Future-proofing is the process of anticipating the future and developing methods of minimizing the effects of shocks and stresses of future events."

My interpretation therefore is that if you own it, and it is futureproofed you will still be able to use it without impact in the coming years. It might for example, be the fact the RE can survive Reason turning 13 without starting to squawk like a parrot - You have to bear in mind there might be realistic limits to this, for example if RS went bust. (In the same way lifetime warranties are a bit... you know)

A good way of futureproofing existing users from RS going bust would be to allow logins without internet authorisation - just throwing that out there.

Now that I've said my piece, I am terminating this discussion :)

DJMaytag
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Post 10 Jun 2022

FWIW, the point of my bumping this topic wasn’t to determine the future of any particular RE’s, but more determine if any are relegated to the dustbin of the past because they’re abandoned, no longer being updated.

If an RE is good enough, I won’t really care so much, but I’d rather vote with my dollars by spending them on devices with active developers.

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joeyluck
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Post 10 Jun 2022

Well I've said it before, a RE doesn't need to be considered abandoned if it doesn't continue to receive updates. And a RE dev doesn't need a constant flow of REs or even need to release more REs to avoid people saying they abandoned the format. And I think you hit the nail on the head: "If an RE is good enough..." So just buy the good REs you like.

dakta
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Post 10 Jun 2022

Of the same mind, if any of my current RE's have had updates I haven't noticed, I sort of bought them for what they were at the time, getting updates (perhaps beyond a bug fix which I've not noticed any to be fair) is not something I'd expect for a one off purchase.

If it exists, can be bought and I want it - it's fair game. As per a thread I started a few weeks back there's a few RE's I've genuinely missed out on because they have dissapeared and I'd buy them in a moment given the chance even though continued development is completely off the cards.

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avasopht
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Post 11 Jun 2022

dakta wrote:
10 Jun 2022
"Future-proofing is the process of anticipating the future and developing methods of minimizing the effects of shocks and stresses of future events."

My interpretation therefore is that if you own it, and it is futureproofed you will still be able to use it without impact in the coming years. It might for example, be the fact the RE can survive Reason turning 13 without starting to squawk like a parrot - You have to bear in mind there might be realistic limits to this, for example if RS went bust. (In the same way lifetime warranties are a bit... you know)

A good way of futureproofing existing users from RS going bust would be to allow logins without internet authorisation - just throwing that out there.

Now that I've said my piece, I am terminating this discussion :)
It's future proof to the extent that your rack extensions will always be supported in future versions of Reason and that the developer does not have to do anything to support a different CPU architecture or operating system.

So sure, if a meteorite hits planet earth, causing an EMP that renders all electronics completely useless, then sure ... well ... guess nothing is future proof
---

dakta
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Post 11 Jun 2022

Fair comment - whilst I didn't refer directly to that scenario, I did anticipate and ultimately try to cover for such extremes cases in that post:

"You have to bear in mind there might be realistic limits to this"

It also covers less extremes and even things that are quite likely that can impede with music production, such as worldwide economic recession, the erosion of coastline and marriage

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 31 Dec 2022

Softube has also left the RE store as it seems.

DJMaytag
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Post 31 Dec 2022

jam-s wrote:
31 Dec 2022
Softube has also left the RE store as it seems.
They had some seriously unrealistic expectations of the RE market.

ab459
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Location: Minsk Belarus

Post 31 Dec 2022

jam-s wrote:
31 Dec 2022
Softube has also left the RE store as it seems.
Honestly no regret (although i like Softube modular some devices), but as for compressors it's definitely was too much for the price imo.

Tomtom
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Joined: 14 Apr 2022

Post 08 Jan 2023

Maybe my question is a bit off-topic. But is there a way to get REs which aren't in the shop anymore via some kind of "used market". (I am thinking about AirRaids Distillery...)

Does anyone know a way? There were some better REs (imo) which are lost forever.

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MrFigg
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Post 08 Jan 2023

Tomtom wrote:
08 Jan 2023
Maybe my question is a bit off-topic. But is there a way to get REs which aren't in the shop anymore via some kind of "used market". (I am thinking about AirRaids Distillery...)

Does anyone know a way? There were some better REs (imo) which are lost forever.
I guess you could write to the dev and ask if they'd be wiling to put a license on your account. Don't think AirRaid are reachable any more though.
丰2ॐ

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avasopht
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Post 08 Jan 2023

Tomtom wrote:
08 Jan 2023
Maybe my question is a bit off-topic. But is there a way to get REs which aren't in the shop anymore via some kind of "used market". (I am thinking about AirRaids Distillery...)

Does anyone know a way? There were some better REs (imo) which are lost forever.
Unfortunately, REs aren't transferable. Not sure how this works legally as EU consumer law prohibits this sort of limitation.
---

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dioxide
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Post 08 Jan 2023

I like Softube as a developer and I'd probably own more of their REs if they hadn't cranked the prices so high a few years back. I remember initially they were a bit more affordable. I think most developers have assumed that now Reason has VST support we can just use VSTs but I have no plans to go down that route. The recent Apple Intel to ARM transition just reinforced my commitment to the RE format as these kind of things are like a asteroid strike mass extinction event for VST plugins.

DJMaytag
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Location: Madison, WI

Post 08 Jan 2023

dioxide wrote:
08 Jan 2023
The recent Apple Intel to ARM transition just reinforced my commitment to the RE format as these kind of things are like an asteroid strike mass extinction event for VST plugins.
Most definitely. I’ve got a few plugins that aren’t even ready for Monterey yet, much less M1/M2 native. I’ve slowed WAY down in recent years on spending money on software/plugins, focusing more on RE’s and hardware synths.

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avasopht
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Post 08 Jan 2023

I'm surprised and a little disappointed that targeting LLVM bytecode (for later targeting of specific hardware and operating systems) hasn't become the norm for this sort of thing.

Web Assembly can sort of offer this level of platform independence, but it's a needless workaround given we already have an existing industry standard solution already (as well as some well-established cross-platform libraries for things like GUI, etc.).
---

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sublunar
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Post 14 Jan 2023

I want to take this opportunity to call out McDSP's RE's which are known to have bugs and which they are not fixing. That really grinds my gears.

Because of my experience with McDSP, I've basically abandoned RE's in general, especially now that Arturia's FX collection exists.

Allowing RE's into your ecosystem that contain bugs that won't ever be fixed is a huge stain on Reason's walled garden stability/integrity. Seems like Reason could withold royalties or whatever to said RE developers until the bugs are worked out, but they don't. There was a time where I was determined to use only RE's and not mess around with third party plugins (except for Superior Drummer) because I thought they were vetted and stable. That ship has sailed.

If I was one of the more reputable RE devs like Jiggery Pokery or Selig, I would be pretty miffed about the bad apples and the impact it has on the rest of the RE market.

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DaveyG
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Post 14 Jan 2023

sublunar wrote:
14 Jan 2023
I want to take this opportunity to call out McDSP's RE's which are known to have bugs and which they are not fixing. That really grinds my gears.

Because of my experience with McDSP, I've basically abandoned RE's in general, especially now that Arturia's FX collection exists.

Allowing RE's into your ecosystem that contain bugs that won't ever be fixed is a huge stain on Reason's walled garden stability/integrity. Seems like Reason could withold royalties or whatever to said RE developers until the bugs are worked out, but they don't. There was a time where I was determined to use only RE's and not mess around with third party plugins (except for Superior Drummer) because I thought they were vetted and stable. That ship has sailed.

If I was one of the more reputable RE devs like Jiggery Pokery or Selig, I would be pretty miffed about the bad apples and the impact it has on the rest of the RE market.
McDSP still exist as a company although last time I looked their site made no mention of Reason or REs. Try emailing them.

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sublunar
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Post 14 Jan 2023

DaveyG wrote:
14 Jan 2023
sublunar wrote:
14 Jan 2023
I want to take this opportunity to call out McDSP's RE's which are known to have bugs and which they are not fixing. That really grinds my gears.

Because of my experience with McDSP, I've basically abandoned RE's in general, especially now that Arturia's FX collection exists.

Allowing RE's into your ecosystem that contain bugs that won't ever be fixed is a huge stain on Reason's walled garden stability/integrity. Seems like Reason could withold royalties or whatever to said RE developers until the bugs are worked out, but they don't. There was a time where I was determined to use only RE's and not mess around with third party plugins (except for Superior Drummer) because I thought they were vetted and stable. That ship has sailed.

If I was one of the more reputable RE devs like Jiggery Pokery or Selig, I would be pretty miffed about the bad apples and the impact it has on the rest of the RE market.
McDSP still exist as a company although last time I looked their site made no mention of Reason or REs. Try emailing them.
I did. They literally told me they had no plans to fix the known issues with their RE's. Which are still for sale in the shop. What better reason can one have for abandoning the RE ecosystem? I say that as a former true believer.

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