Reason 12.5.0 Released (VST3)

[BeReasonable]

I'm having huge cpu spikes and popping as well. The cpu load indicators are showing each mix channel hitting around 30%.... even when tgeres a single associated device only running at 2 or 3% - so not sure whats happening here.

Edit - this is just running REs, no VSTs at all

This is true - one of my Europa combinators has a relatively heavy CPU footprint, whereas my older copy of reason did not. It seems like they allocated more space for certain automation components (or sound in general) that scales differently than it did previously (I believe they eluded to this in the patch notes to support more VST automation). I also have an issue with Echo rolling on some of the CPU-hungry REs / VSTs that I didn't have before.

I'm due for a new computer, I may end up upgrading in 2023. 6th generation Intel is like 2016/2017 I think.

I'm using a 7950X with 64GB Ram. Two instances of DS Thorn were running about 10-15% cpu each. Had to bounce down to audio tracks just so I could mix without problems.

[avasopht]

Is it now possible to load RRP inside stand-alone?

No, they seem to have disabled that possibility.

Hmm ... what happens if you run RRP inside of some other VST bridge?

[zoidkirb]

No, they seem to have disabled that possibility.

Hmm ... what happens if you run RRP inside of some other VST bridge?

I gave RRP a run inside of Unify inside Reason standalone and it didn't seem to cause any problems.
It's a very sub-optimal way to use the rack though, as you don't get direct automation from the RRP to the DAW. Have to first assign the RRP parameter you want to a Unify Macro, and then assign that Macro to Reason.

[BeReasonable]

- A simple half rack midi transpose device for instruments that do not have built in octave controls. Again, for layering, I want to be able to split things off simply and just have an instrument an octave up or down without a bunch of hassle.

This can easily be done for a long time by simply using a combinator.

Yes, but I want them all to be routed to their own mix channel so I can balance them at the same time as everything else instead of having to go down to a combinator to handle a submix in some line mixer.

[joeyluck]

This can easily be done for a long time by simply using a combinator.

Yes, but I want them all to be routed to their own mix channel so I can balance them at the same time as everything else instead of having to go down to a combinator to handle a submix in some line mixer.

Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... transpose/

[BeReasonable]

Yes, but I want them all to be routed to their own mix channel so I can balance them at the same time as everything else instead of having to go down to a combinator to handle a submix in some line mixer.

Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... transpose/

No, I'm looking for something more in line with old school midi hardware with a bit of that RE thrown in.

Back in the day I had a JL cooper nexus plus - you take one midi source and split it out to multiple devices.

That's what I want to be able to do in reason - which seems simple enough but for some reason they don't actual expose midi to the user in any meaningful way. I want one source sequencer track to spit out midi, a device that can route it to any VST / RE instrument in the rack with mix channel. Tranposing could be done with the RE you linked or programmed into the splitter itself.

[Dante]

Universal Audio Native (Spark) VST3's work. Or at least Waterfall B3 does on my system complete with learned Mod Wheel control of the Leslie Rotor speed so Im a happy camper

[Jackjackdaw]

Is this what you're looking for?
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... transpose/

No, I'm looking for something more in line with old school midi hardware with a bit of that RE thrown in.

Back in the day I had a JL cooper nexus plus - you take one midi source and split it out to multiple devices.

That's what I want to be able to do in reason - which seems simple enough but for some reason they don't actual expose midi to the user in any meaningful way. I want one source sequencer track to spit out midi, a device that can route it to any VST / RE instrument in the rack with mix channel. Tranposing could be done with the RE you linked or programmed into the splitter itself.

Reason’s invisible midi bothers me often as well. Outside of Reason, Cubase is very good at midi routing, can easily route one midi track to multiple devices with a transpose modifier on each instrument . Also , Voltage Modular let’s you route midi devices with cables in a modular environment.

[DaveyG]

No, I'm looking for something more in line with old school midi hardware with a bit of that RE thrown in.

Back in the day I had a JL cooper nexus plus - you take one midi source and split it out to multiple devices.

That's what I want to be able to do in reason - which seems simple enough but for some reason they don't actual expose midi to the user in any meaningful way. I want one source sequencer track to spit out midi, a device that can route it to any VST / RE instrument in the rack with mix channel. Tranposing could be done with the RE you linked or programmed into the splitter itself.

Reason’s invisible midi bothers me often as well. Outside of Reason, Cubase is very good at midi routing, can easily route one midi track to multiple devices with a transpose modifier on each instrument . Also , Voltage Modular let’s you route midi devices with cables in a modular environment.

I don't think Reason has any MIDI routing as such. I think it uses its own internal system which may not be very compatible with what we think of as MIDI. In a perfect world the back panel of every rack device would have MIDI ports as well as CV and we'd be free to interconnect/split/merge that stuff in any way we can think of but I think that is not as easy for RS to implement.as we might assume. As a result you get people using Combinators to route one "MIDI signal" to multiple things, which works but is very much a workaround rather than ideal.

I think this is also the reason that RS are reluctant to add support for VSTs that generate MIDI, such as Scaler 2, Captain Chords etc.

[moalla]

R12 is crazy, after i renamed all VST paths, copied back the Graphicss Cache
C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\Propellerhead Software\Reason\GraphicsCache
and deleted C:\Program Files\Propellerhead\Reason
Installed R12.2.10 D39 but not loading, than deleted this installation folder again
Installed 12.5 D29 tried and now it works PUH
Tried some VST3 effects like Flux Mini 2 (nice free Pump Re alternative)
everything works fine, also the Waves VST2 stuff

Thanks guys for the short discussion of backward compatility of Reason.

RS did a really well job, overall loading time R12 increased dramatical at my old i7 4710mq notebook,
now a 1,5gb project opens still in some seconds, also vst graphics loading a little bit faster,
and the most impressive thing for me is that RS have managed to increase performance,
so now I´m able to load one instance waves abbey road chambers extra,
were i got before problems with audio cracks before

Now i understand, why the developers are ring around "the best reason ever"
final x86 64bit improvements, last VST2 fixes, fixed graphic performance lags,
comb 2 update aditional in and outputs, succesful VST3 interface implentation.

Congrats for this major release, now the team deserves a vacation

[Arrant]

Universal Audio Native (Spark) VST3's work. Or at least Waterfall B3 does on my system complete with learned Mod Wheel control of the Leslie Rotor speed so Im a happy camper

Yes, all the UAD Spark VST3 instruments work. And people asked why VST3 was important

[chimp_spanner]

Universal Audio Native (Spark) VST3's work. Or at least Waterfall B3 does on my system complete with learned Mod Wheel control of the Leslie Rotor speed so Im a happy camper

Yes, all the UAD Spark VST3 instruments work. And people asked why VST3 was important

"bUt WiLl It MaKe YoUr MuSiC sOuNd BeTtEr" - said someone somewhere

[moalla]

Yes, all the UAD Spark VST3 instruments work. And people asked why VST3 was important

"bUt WiLl It MaKe YoUr MuSiC sOuNd BeTtEr" - said someone somewhere

maybee in terms of super expensive equals good

[xylyx]

- Ability to split sequencer track out to seperate mix channels and not have to copy everything over to the new track. I want to be able to layer using the main mixer and not have to make every update to duplicate midi tracks.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the only way I have found to achieve this is using Distributor, which costs £9. It shows up as an instrument, so it means that it creates a sequencer track where you can place your midi. You can then route the CV to multiple synths (max 8) and choose 'Unison' and set the amount of voices to the number of devices you have connected. This way you have one track driving multiple synths.

- A simple half rack midi transpose device for instruments that do not have built in octave controls. Again, for layering, I want to be able to split things off simply and just have an instrument an octave up or down without a bunch of hassle.

You can do this with two free devices (although it's a bit more convoluted than a simple half rack device!):

https://reasonstudios.com/shop/rack-ext ... layer-tap/
https://reasonstudios.com/shop/rack-ext ... transpose/

Place the CV Player Tap above the instrument layer you want to transpose, then add the AB Transpose below that. Route the Gate and Note CV from the required Distributor channel to the Input on CV Player Tap. Now you can change the Octave or Semi knobs on AB Transpose, as needed.

I've attached a quick demo below to illustrate the above ideas.

distributor layer.zip

(146 Bytes) Downloaded 134 times

[jam-s]

This can easily be done for a long time by simply using a combinator.

Yes, but I want them all to be routed to their own mix channel so I can balance them at the same time as everything else instead of having to go down to a combinator to handle a submix in some line mixer.

Well, simply route them to their own mix channel then. You don't have to use the "from devices" and or the internal primitive submix of the combinator or the combinator output sockets at all.

[moalla]

After all, for Ryzen 7000 i can say, wait for the final Agesa Bios, for example Agesa 2021 update 1.7 solves 2,5years after release of Ryzen 3000x the usb power and audio crackl problems.
I was aware of this AMD problem and i decided just to buy a 3900x two months after 5900x was released, but i think in steppings /revision of AMD cpu´s now it´s much better. So maybe it could important to have a powerfull machine capable runing win 7 in future.

So i´m really excited how will be your experience with Ryzen 5000 and 7000 in future, especial with buffer settings, fellow musicians
Is it worth to upgrade from 3900x to 5950x in terms of low latency performance.

[altron]

Surprise update! But is VST3 plugin MIDI out supported?

[Mataya]

Of course nope.

M

[madmacman]

Surprise update! But is VST3 plugin MIDI out supported?

From the updated manual (p.380):

VST compatibility in Reason
• Reason 12.5 and later supports 64-bit VST3 and VST2 (2.4) plugins.
• Both Windows and Mac VSTs are supported.
! Multitimbrality in VSTs is currently not supported - only one channel per VST can be played back at a time. If you are using a multitimbral VST it will only receive on MIDI Channel 1.
! Reason does not support VSTs that output MIDI.
! VSTs are NOT supported in Reason Rack Plugin!

(Emphasis by me)

[Re8et]

- Ability to split sequencer track out to seperate mix channels and not have to copy everything over to the new track. I want to be able to layer using the main mixer and not have to make every update to duplicate midi tracks.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the only way I have found to achieve this is using Distributor, which costs £9. It shows up as an instrument, so it means that it creates a sequencer track where you can place your midi. You can then route the CV to multiple synths (max 8) and choose 'Unison' and set the amount of voices to the number of devices you have connected. This way you have one track driving multiple synths.

- A simple half rack midi transpose device for instruments that do not have built in octave controls. Again, for layering, I want to be able to split things off simply and just have an instrument an octave up or down without a bunch of hassle.

You can do this with two free devices (although it's a bit more convoluted than a simple half rack device!):

https://reasonstudios.com/shop/rack-ext ... layer-tap/
https://reasonstudios.com/shop/rack-ext ... transpose/

Place the CV Player Tap above the instrument layer you want to transpose, then add the AB Transpose below that. Route the Gate and Note CV from the required Distributor channel to the Input on CV Player Tap. Now you can change the Octave or Semi knobs on AB Transpose, as needed.

I've attached a quick demo below to illustrate the above ideas.

distributor layer.zip

PSDN CV Envelope Generator does it also, as it does Charlotte if I'm not wrong, and, of course, LoveSoud Player MIDI CV.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... generator/

[npinero1]

So can I get my Scaler plugin (VST 2/3) to play another instrument live?
I dont like the sounds on Scaler, but I do like how it handles chord progressions.

[joeyluck]

So can I get my Scaler plugin (VST 2/3) to play another instrument live?
I dont like the sounds on Scaler, but I do like how it handles chord progressions.

Maybe give this a shot: viewtopic.php?p=625672#p625672

[Propellerhands]

What I love the most in this update is that unlike in Ableton, Reason shows which plugin is VST2 and which is VST3, not only in the list of plugins, but Rack too. Hope they will keep this functionality.

Now would be interesting to know if someone could test, if by deleting a plugin from PC, Reason in an opened project file shows which version of VST is missing inside the Rack or does one have to guess?

[reasonosaer]

Reason’s invisible midi bothers me often as well. Outside of Reason, Cubase is very good at midi routing, can easily route one midi track to multiple devices with a transpose modifier on each instrument . Also , Voltage Modular let’s you route midi devices with cables in a modular environment.

I don't think Reason has any MIDI routing as such. I think it uses its own internal system which may not be very compatible with what we think of as MIDI. In a perfect world the back panel of every rack device would have MIDI ports as well as CV and we'd be free to interconnect/split/merge that stuff in any way we can think of but I think that is not as easy for RS to implement.as we might assume. As a result you get people using Combinators to route one "MIDI signal" to multiple things, which works but is very much a workaround rather than ideal.

I think this is also the reason that RS are reluctant to add support for VSTs that generate MIDI, such as Scaler 2, Captain Chords etc.

actually, unless reason is built in some really weird way i can't imagine it was a lot more work for them to partially implement vst and now vst3 support while completely disabling all midi routing functionality (which is part of the vst3 spec) and hiding it from the end user without breaking anything else (if they haven't, we'll see..). i suspect this is done because they want player REs to be the only composition aid type plugins available in the rack. by doing so they make reason and the rack plugin a walled garden for midi based music theory plugins that just so happen to be the fastest growing segment of the plugin market by far - ask someone from PB about sales numbers for scalar vs everything else they sell if you don't believe me. they apparently want this bad enough to do some more extra work making sure people can't use the rack plugin as a work around to get midi output from vsts in reason standalone.

basically they've created the same situation for player REs that they wanted for REs in general, i.e. to be able to sell plugins with zero resale value to a captive audience without having to actually compete in the vst market. i've worked with dozens of younger artists in their 20s who came up finger drumming on MPCs and are essentially one finger composers with zero knowledge of music theory and zero desire to learn any (why should they it hasn't held them back so far?) it's not a stretch to say that the majority of people under 30 i've mixed music for don't read music or play a traditional instrument and lots of them are using scaler / instachord / cthulu / captain plugins, etc. RS think they are being clever by forcing this crowd to buy players if they want access to that kind of composition in the rack, but i've literally never met a single person younger than myself (37) who uses reason, they're all using ableton, bitwig, or fl studio.

I imagine the hedge fund types steering the RS ship these days will again fail to learn the lesson their forebears at Props obviously didn't learn when they tried to do the same thing with REs thinking about all the money they were going to make and wound up being forced to sell their company instead. in that case they only reversed course when it became clear to them (several years after it was obvious to everyone but them including most of their userbase) that failing to support vsts in reason was a miscalculation that was going to be the end of the company unless they backtracked at which point they were already a decade behind the competition. that's how we got to the embarassing situation RS are in today where they have to publicly humiliate themselves by trotting out partial support for a standard everyone else implemented years ago as a major accomplishment. it's just as cringe as being really proud of adding crossfades in 2018 or partially implemented hi-res display support in 2021, etc, etc...

[EnochLight]