Reason Studios updates their roadmap (November 17, 2021)

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buddard
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Post 20 Nov 2021

Loque wrote:
19 Nov 2021
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
19 Nov 2021
Looking forward to the bass line generator! I hope it is not only for acid style bass though (sorry fellow Reason talker who wishes it is a rebirth style sequencer. 🤗) I really hope it isn't just that 😱
Agree. I instantly thought about a real bass with sliding notes, but this is not possible as a Player, except someone smart adds a CV out for controlling a pitch bend or other CV signals for controlling like MW (np devs, you can pay me later for this idea...).
Sliding notes have been possible since before Players existed, for example the Matrix in Reason 1.0... Just enable legato mode and auto portamento on the instrument and legato notes will trigger a slide?
Or am I missing something?

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Loque
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Post 20 Nov 2021

buddard wrote:
20 Nov 2021
Loque wrote:
19 Nov 2021

Agree. I instantly thought about a real bass with sliding notes, but this is not possible as a Player, except someone smart adds a CV out for controlling a pitch bend or other CV signals for controlling like MW (np devs, you can pay me later for this idea...).
Sliding notes have been possible since before Players existed, for example the Matrix in Reason 1.0... Just enable legato mode and auto portamento on the instrument and legato notes will trigger a slide?
Or am I missing something?
The interesting thing on playing a bass would be the sliding in different speeds.

If someone did not forget that the portamento time should be automatable or can be controlled somehow, it can be done. Otherwise only with the PB. But also doable with an LFO or direct pitch changes.

Guess we will see what a "bass" Player makes it special about beeing a "bass" player ;-)
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flexluthor
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Post 21 Nov 2021

I imagine the new player is just for subscribers or an RE sale. They don't care about perpetual owners. Its hilarious how they are talking about a new device. Their line for a long time now was that the people that develop devices are separate from those that work on Reason. Now they are mixing the two together. Unless this is being added to the core program, then take it off your roadmap. Bring the browser into the 21st century

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 21 Nov 2021

Roadmap should not only be for perpetuals though. Whether the device is for everyone or just subscribers, is fine that it is in the roadmap. In fact, I would think the roadmap is actually more important to subscribers than to perpetuals.


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jlgrimes
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Post 21 Nov 2021

TritoneAddiction wrote:
20 Nov 2021
Hoboys wrote:
20 Nov 2021
This... Thor, Kong, Maelstrom, Redrum and even the 1-rack devices all have flawed parameter exposition.

How to let RS know about this? Can we collect signatures or maybe a poll for New Devices vs Improving Stock? Hell, even saying "improving" feels a bit of a stretch, because that's something that MUST HAVE BEEN THERE from day 1. RS guys, if you' are reading this - don't let Mr. Jubel waste his time on something we don't want and then go "well we can't please everybody" when the new device get booed. LISTEN. You CAN please everyone.

P.S.: going through the demos of SKP new Aura combinator refill and it's absolutely mind blowing what he has done with stock devices. Imagine what he can do without these unnecessary limitations.
No no no. Let the old devices be. Thor, Subtractor, Redrum etc. I mean sure, I can agree why not make everything automatable. Other than that, leave them alone. It's time to move on.
Just look at Europa and Grain. They're much better and more fun devices. New is good. :puf_smile:

I somewhat disagree here.

Certain devices would benefit an overhaul.

Basic compressors/EQs can be overhauled to be more flexible. Ableton constantly tweaks their compressors, EQs, improve filters on various plugins, add workflow features to instruments. They do add new devices when it is necessary.

Thor, Subtractor, and Redrum all could benefit from tweaking especially Redrum.

It feels very 2001, alot of things have changed since then in terms of drum programming.

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buddard
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Post 21 Nov 2021

flexluthor wrote:
21 Nov 2021
Their line for a long time now was that the people that develop devices are separate from those that work on Reason. Now they are mixing the two together.
How so?

TritoneAddiction
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Post 21 Nov 2021

jlgrimes wrote:
21 Nov 2021
TritoneAddiction wrote:
20 Nov 2021

No no no. Let the old devices be. Thor, Subtractor, Redrum etc. I mean sure, I can agree why not make everything automatable. Other than that, leave them alone. It's time to move on.
Just look at Europa and Grain. They're much better and more fun devices. New is good. :puf_smile:

I somewhat disagree here.

Certain devices would benefit an overhaul.

Basic compressors/EQs can be overhauled to be more flexible. Ableton constantly tweaks their compressors, EQs, improve filters on various plugins, add workflow features to instruments. They do add new devices when it is necessary.

Thor, Subtractor, and Redrum all could benefit from tweaking especially Redrum.

It feels very 2001, alot of things have changed since then in terms of drum programming.
I get where you're coming from. And you're not wrong. Old devices could be improved for sure.
It's just that for me personally, I would rather work with something new and fresh rather than old improved devices. It's one thing if the devices were like 1-4 years old. But these are OLD devices. For me it's a bit like going back to change old already finished songs. It's done. It's a piece of art/creation that's connected to a particular time. That's how I view instruments/devices. Let them be.

In the end it's all a matter of priority what the developers should spend their time on. I could understand if they wanted to add a new standard EQ (something like Synapse GQ-7), a proper limiter etc. Let's face it the Mclass stuff is pretty bad. Looks boring too. If they updated those, they would have to change pretty much everything. Might as well build something better and more modern from scratch.
I mostly responded to all of this to show that not everybody wants RS to spend their time updating the old devices.

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Post 21 Nov 2021

flexluthor wrote:
21 Nov 2021
I imagine the new player is just for subscribers or an RE sale. They don't care about perpetual owners.
I mean clearly they don't care about perpetual owners. It's not like they offer a perpetual license upgrade as a purchase option and the choice to buy perpetual license RE's ala-cart instead of being forced to subscribe for everything...

Oh wait... :lol:
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Hoboys
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Post 21 Nov 2021

TritoneAddiction wrote:
21 Nov 2021
I get where you're coming from. And you're not wrong. Old devices could be improved for sure.
It's just that for me personally, I would rather work with something new and fresh rather than old improved devices. It's one thing if the devices were like 1-4 years old. But these are OLD devices. For me it's a bit like going back to change old already finished songs. It's done. It's a piece of art/creation that's connected to a particular time. That's how I view instruments/devices. Let them be.

In the end it's all a matter of priority what the developers should spend their time on. I could understand if they wanted to add a new standard EQ (something like Synapse GQ-7), a proper limiter etc. Let's face it the Mclass stuff is pretty bad. Looks boring too. If they updated those, they would have to change pretty much everything. Might as well build something better and more modern from scratch.
I mostly responded to all of this to show that not everybody wants RS to spend their time updating the old devices.
I actually meant just exposing all the functions like they were meant to be, but since you've brought it up - if the MClass stuff is bad, doesn't this then beg the question - why is it even there?

EQ, comp and limiter are basic tools for any old or new user, the face of the product, so to speak. They must be either removed or, preferably, overhauled before they become clutter. Clutter is bad user experience which results in bad company reputation.

I am also increasingly concerned with the designs, because they grow worse by the year.

Here's an example of what sounds good, looks sexy and is fun to work with - SUCCESS:

sexy.png


Legacy stuff, if I'm being honest, looks decent to me. I wouldn't touch the design, but it sounds horrible - FAIL:


fail.png


And here is the new wave of designs, the worst of them all. I call them "functional spreadsheets". This one doesn't even fit the rack, has no texture, no depth, looks skewed and out of place - MEGA FAIL:


megafail.png


If I could attach more pictures, I'd add algoritm and friktion to this category as well. I don't care they are functional. They cost a £100 each and should be way beyond that. 3rd party devs like Ekssperimental Sounds Studio and Red Rock Sounds, among a few others, seemed to have grasped the Rack and Skeuomorphism concepts better than Reason, which is ironic, and they are not hiding behind the "functional design" nonsense and just do the work of delivering devices with great workflow and beautiful designs that are pleasant to work with, with the former dev's work being more prominent on the aesthetics side and the latter on the functionality, but both reaching a good balance.


There's no shame in a teacher learning from his students.


Also not even a mention of sequencer improvements despite the majority of users clearly speaking out in favour of them. I don't want for Mr. Jubel to be in a position where his long and hard work on a new device will only result in a walk of shame from Game of Thrones, but this seems to be where it's headed right now. No amount of revenue gain will let RS buy back their reputation. Having the Grand Master himself work on core devices and functionality, on the other hand, would be time well spent for both the users and the company.


Also, using the mailing list for user polls may not be a bad idea.
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bxbrkrz
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Post 21 Nov 2021

Legacy Mode / Delicious Mode switch in the back of the rack? Something small and discreet, like with Dr. Octo.
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AnotherMathias
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Post 21 Nov 2021

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Nov 2021
Legacy Mode / Delicious Mode switch in the back of the rack? Something small and discreet, like with Dr. Octo.
Yep, that's pretty much what I'd like. The oldest devices (Subtractor, Redrum, NN-19, and perhaps Thor) were made to have an extremely low CPU consumption, something I appreciate still to this day. Their design and layout were extremely well thought out, to be compact, quick and straightforward to use (well, maybe not so much Thor) and yet very versatile.
But inevitably, super-low CPU algorithms will sound a bit flat and one-dimensional, the opposite of the rich, deep, and organic sound we crave today.

If they could keep all the cleverness of those designs, but allow us to splurge a bit on the CPU, it would really breathe new life into these gems. I'm not talking just about the technical stuff like oversampling and reducing aliasing, but also about veering more into the U-He DIVA territory, with rich non-linear analog oscillators and filters. But again, keeping the original device layouts and architecture. Switchable to legacy mode, of course.

If they wanted to add a discrete little drawer with some FX (like in most their newer devices), that would okay with me as well.

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EnochLight
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Post 21 Nov 2021

I'd wager that RS's move away from going 100% skeuomorphic is in response to the user community largely begging for a more modern take on device GUI's in the past. Some may feel Algoritm, Friktion, and most the RS-branded Players look like functional spreadsheets :lol: ; others may find them refreshing compared to the Scott Forstall-induced fever dream of the past 15-20 years. Me? I'm sort of in the middle. I used to lament the anachronism of skeuomorphism as a GUI, but when it's done right - it does look pretty cool. I do think that the stuff Ekssperimental Sounds, PinkNoise Studio's Maia stuff, and a handful of other RE devs look pretty damn awesome in the rack. But I also am starting to embrace ultra-modern flat graphic designs as well, such as the stuff iZotope has been doing lately with their VST.

Now that Reason's graphics have been moved to the GPU, maybe we'll see more higher resolution/better eye candy? Who knows.
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DaveyG
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Post 21 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
21 Nov 2021
I'd wager that RS's move away from going 100% skeuomorphic is in response to the user community largely begging for a more modern take on device GUI's in the past. Some may feel Algoritm, Friktion, and most the RS-branded Players look like functional spreadsheets :lol: ; others may find them refreshing compared to the Scott Forstall-induced fever dream of the past 15-20 years. Me? I'm sort of in the middle. I used to lament the anachronism of skeuomorphism as a GUI, but when it's done right - it does look pretty cool. I do think that the stuff Ekssperimental Sounds, PinkNoise Studio's Maia stuff, and a handful of other RE devs look pretty damn awesome in the rack. But I also am starting to embrace ultra-modern flat graphic designs as well, such as the stuff iZotope has been doing lately with their VST.

Now that Reason's graphics have been moved to the GPU, maybe we'll see more higher resolution/better eye candy? Who knows.
I'm actually not that bothered about how things look. My favourite synth, and by a long way, is Omnisphere and I think even the most die-hard Omnisphere fan would struggle to claim that it's good looking. But it's a hugely capable, logical and flexible synth and the new Sonic Extensions are truly astonishing (they are on my Christmas list...) But I also use FL Studio, which is at the more "cartoon" end of the scale and, at times, Reason feels a bit towards that end too. The wobbly cables and rack ears can be fun but they can also feel a bit outdated and gimmicky. My main DAW is Studio One which is very "grown up" and, arguably, a bit boring to look at but gives me the efficiency I need to work quickly, and the older I get the more I need to work quickly and efficiently before I forget where I was heading. Mind you, I'll take almost anything over the illogical mess that is ProTools. Thankfully my days in pro studios are pretty much done and I no longer have to use that thing. It truly was a hate-hate relationship. :-)

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Post 21 Nov 2021

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Nov 2021
Legacy Mode / Delicious Mode switch in the back of the rack? Something small and discreet, like with Dr. Octo.
You mean you wish Dr.Octo Rex had it or are you talking about the High Quality Interpolation / Low Bandwith settings?

Legacy / Delicious lol! I wouldn't call it Delicious lol! maybe Modern or Advanced?

Apparently the antonym of legacy is current.

I also don't see anything wrong with updating old devices. I'd love to see SubTractor, Thor, ReDrum, Kong, Scream 4 and even Alligator (32 step trance gate?) get updates.
:reason:

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bxbrkrz
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Post 21 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
21 Nov 2021
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Nov 2021
Legacy Mode / Delicious Mode switch in the back of the rack? Something small and discreet, like with Dr. Octo.
You mean you wish Dr.Octo Rex had it or are you talking about the High Quality Interpolation / Low Bandwith settings?

Legacy / Delicious lol! I wouldn't call it Delicious lol! maybe Modern or Advanced?

Apparently the antonym of legacy is current.

I also don't see anything wrong with updating old devices. I'd love to see SubTractor, Thor, ReDrum, Kong, Scream 4 and even Alligator (32 step trance gate?) get updates.
1. I mean a little switch, just like the one in the back of the Dr.
Thinking about it, and with our new infinite graphic power, it would be cool to use that switch to also update the look of the device. All the old devices would be "wrapped" in Combinator 2 tech. Turn Thor around, switch it, and you get Delicious Thor, all yellow, with an animated lava lamp inside. :puf_smile:

2. The word "Modern" sounds older than "Legacy" to me. Why not "Delicious"? :D

Image
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

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Creativemind
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Post 22 Nov 2021

bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Nov 2021
Creativemind wrote:
21 Nov 2021


You mean you wish Dr.Octo Rex had it or are you talking about the High Quality Interpolation / Low Bandwith settings?

Legacy / Delicious lol! I wouldn't call it Delicious lol! maybe Modern or Advanced?

Apparently the antonym of legacy is current.

I also don't see anything wrong with updating old devices. I'd love to see SubTractor, Thor, ReDrum, Kong, Scream 4 and even Alligator (32 step trance gate?) get updates.
1. I mean a little switch, just like the one in the back of the Dr.
Thinking about it, and with our new infinite graphic power, it would be cool to use that switch to also update the look of the device. All the old devices would be "wrapped" in Combinator 2 tech. Turn Thor around, switch it, and you get Delicious Thor, all yellow, with an animated lava lamp inside. :puf_smile:

2. The word "Modern" sounds older than "Legacy" to me. Why not "Delicious"? :D

Image
'Cause delicious is to do with taste.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.42 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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bxbrkrz
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Post 22 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
22 Nov 2021
bxbrkrz wrote:
21 Nov 2021

1. I mean a little switch, just like the one in the back of the Dr.
Thinking about it, and with our new infinite graphic power, it would be cool to use that switch to also update the look of the device. All the old devices would be "wrapped" in Combinator 2 tech. Turn Thor around, switch it, and you get Delicious Thor, all yellow, with an animated lava lamp inside. :puf_smile:

2. The word "Modern" sounds older than "Legacy" to me. Why not "Delicious"? :D

Image
'Cause delicious is to do with taste.
Image
When my kick is phat, I visualized a thicc juicy burger. When I sharpen its transient I can taste the slices of pickles I added to it.

I don't want to derail this magenta colored thread any further :puf_smile:
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

earwig83
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Post 22 Nov 2021

It's a really bad company and they should give us some of our money back. I bought R12 specifically on the promise of browser updates and they lied.

earwig83
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Post 22 Nov 2021

tronam wrote:
19 Nov 2021
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed by some of these delays, but I have no doubt the core development team is working as hard as they can to get R12 into shape. I think it'll eventually get to where it needs to be, but that's not much consolation for pro users who depend on Reason every day to be as stable and performant as possible. Sticking with R11 over the next 6mo still feels like a pretty sensible way to go.
release schedule for R13 will come before they fix it and they will try to drag us into tht version with more lies about fixes and improvements to things that should have been done years ago. This company is about as honest as my ex girlfriend.

earwig83
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Post 22 Nov 2021

cocoazenith wrote:
18 Nov 2021
I appreciate their transparency.
IMO there is no transparency here because there is no promise being made by them. They basically can sit and do nothing (or shift the goal post) and say that they never promised us a rose garden. It's the same deceptive formula of damage control that all the awful gaming companies now default to. Software/gaming industry will never recover from all these precedents being set. This is the norm moving forward in perpetuity. We are now all collectively held hostage by these businesses to keep using the tools we love, despite their obvious shortcomings. I can live with it but I ain't smiling anymore. And all love for the company is lost from me.

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Post 22 Nov 2021

earwig83 wrote:
22 Nov 2021
I can live with it but I ain't smiling anymore. And all love for the company is lost from me.
Similar to the situation with your ex-girlfriend, perhaps it's time to move on? I mean if you're that miserable, why stick around?
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earwig83
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Post 22 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
17 Nov 2021
Pepin wrote:
17 Nov 2021
Having read the blog post, I'm somewhat reassured to hear they're scrapping the "smart browser" for now. It always seemed like the least important of all the features on the roadmap.

I just hope the bug where the browser doesn't remember collapsed folders is fixed soon. That's actually been the most annoying issue in R12 for me, small as it might seem.

And as for whether R12 is "perfect" for most users, there are bugs in R12 that do affect everyone (such as aforementioned browser issue). So in that sense, it's not perfect. But I think we all know what was meant by that sentence, which is that the show-stopping performance bugs don't affect most users. And that's undoubtedly true.
Well I'm still hopeful for tags! For example, the only reverbs revealed in a search for "reverb" are those plugins with "reverb" in the name :\

I want the search to help me find things and remind me what I have, not just locate things by name which I need to know beforehand.

And I hope when they fix the collapse feature, that they add the option/alt-click to expand/collapse all :-)
I know I one of the harsh people but I am no longer sorry about it. The fact that they haven't introduced tags in this version goes to show what a mess the organization is in. The fact that it wasn't there from say one makes no sense, in fact. They literally hyped bringing the browser out of the dark ages and did NOTHING for R12 (that works)! And they still charged the full price. The audacity is quite unbecoming.

If it was easier, people would class action them for this crap. This search thing is a huge issue that has plagued us the entire time of using reason and they had the gall to market a solution.

Only products with the word "reverb" show up in reverb searches. It's really sad how a wonderful product is being held up by committee decisions that make little sense. They don't care about anything but extracting revenue from it through deception and lies. It's obvious the soul is gone from that place.

That said, I should go easier on them, with the current state of games, software, tv and film, it is clear all companies are cutting corners and putting out garbage into the world.

Hoboys
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Post 22 Nov 2021

earwig83 wrote:
22 Nov 2021
joeyluck wrote:
17 Nov 2021


Well I'm still hopeful for tags! For example, the only reverbs revealed in a search for "reverb" are those plugins with "reverb" in the name :\

I want the search to help me find things and remind me what I have, not just locate things by name which I need to know beforehand.

And I hope when they fix the collapse feature, that they add the option/alt-click to expand/collapse all :-)
I know I one of the harsh people but I am no longer sorry about it. The fact that they haven't introduced tags in this version goes to show what a mess the organization is in. The fact that it wasn't there from say one makes no sense, in fact. They literally hyped bringing the browser out of the dark ages and did NOTHING for R12 (that works)! And they still charged the full price. The audacity is quite unbecoming.

If it was easier, people would class action them for this crap. This search thing is a huge issue that has plagued us the entire time of using reason and they had the gall to market a solution.

Only products with the word "reverb" show up in reverb searches. It's really sad how a wonderful product is being held up by committee decisions that make little sense. They don't care about anything but extracting revenue from it through deception and lies. It's obvious the soul is gone from that place.

That said, I should go easier on them, with the current state of games, software, tv and film, it is clear all companies are cutting corners and putting out garbage into the world.
Don't go easier on them, because they did nothing to deserve it. They DID mess up, they HAVE lied and ARE lying to users directly, they ARE moving away from licence and they ARE disrespectful towards the community in their actions. Just maybe go a little easier on the rest of us here, because we're all here hoping it won't go where we know it will :)

earwig83
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Post 22 Nov 2021

Hoboys wrote:
22 Nov 2021
earwig83 wrote:
22 Nov 2021


I know I one of the harsh people but I am no longer sorry about it. The fact that they haven't introduced tags in this version goes to show what a mess the organization is in. The fact that it wasn't there from say one makes no sense, in fact. They literally hyped bringing the browser out of the dark ages and did NOTHING for R12 (that works)! And they still charged the full price. The audacity is quite unbecoming.

If it was easier, people would class action them for this crap. This search thing is a huge issue that has plagued us the entire time of using reason and they had the gall to market a solution.

Only products with the word "reverb" show up in reverb searches. It's really sad how a wonderful product is being held up by committee decisions that make little sense. They don't care about anything but extracting revenue from it through deception and lies. It's obvious the soul is gone from that place.

That said, I should go easier on them, with the current state of games, software, tv and film, it is clear all companies are cutting corners and putting out garbage into the world.
Don't go easier on them, because they did nothing to deserve it. They DID mess up, they HAVE lied and ARE lying to users directly, they ARE moving away from licence and they ARE disrespectful towards the community in their actions. Just maybe go a little easier on the rest of us here, because we're all here hoping it won't go where we know it will :)
I can get behind what you are saying! :)

I guess what pained me most is the people on forums and social media defending Reason Studios and their choices over the last few years. The company is clearly on the dark side now. They will be just as bad as Native instrument eventually.

earwig83
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Post 22 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
22 Nov 2021
earwig83 wrote:
22 Nov 2021
I can live with it but I ain't smiling anymore. And all love for the company is lost from me.
Similar to the situation with your ex-girlfriend, perhaps it's time to move on? I mean if you're that miserable, why stick around?
The software is still usable because they haven't completely ruined the paradigm just yet and leaving is not a good solution at all. That's what I like to call "giving up and being a quitter". I'd rather fight for what's right and push for the right choices to be made, even if it means dealing with poor faith comments on these forums.

Plus I still need access to 20 years of songs that I made! I do wish people would stop trying to push people away with the "if you don't like it don't buy it" mentality. It's exactly how we ended up here with everything, by suppressing disappointment and defending these companies and their greedy choices.

After all, you still are supposed to express things constructively to a partner who is letting you down and the way I look at it, this will be a long divorce process because of the assets that are tied together. So for the time-being, expect many users to start speaking this way for the foreseeable future.

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