Mimic: New Creative Sampler

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Billy+
Posts: 2785
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Jackjackdaw wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Windows is fine man, it's just a screen to load apps from.
It really isn't. I've used Windows in the past and it makes me hate my computer
Actually even though I have exactly the same thoughts as you after giving it a try it's by far the best version since XP. The upgrade from 7 to 10 went very well and I don't have any performance loss which was the biggest concern I had with the i3 quad core intel laptop I was trying R+ on, in fact I would suggest it's actually performing a bit better and although it's only got 4gb of ram Reason works well enough for me to at least try version 12.

I also think I'm getting less issues with hires as the intel 4000 hd graphics chipset is using a lot lower dpi than most other devices, I wouldn't normally recommend giving windows a try but actually it's ok and worth a try :thumbs_up:
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
What MIDI tools are you itching to use

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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guitfnky
Posts: 3850
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
EnochLight wrote:
10 Sep 2021


:lol:

I mean, I feel their pain - I'm on a computer that's approaching a decade old and still haven't pulled the trigger to buy a new machine. But, I'm fortunate that on Windows these sort of software issues are extremely rare these days. That said, if Reason 12 didn't run on my computer because my hardware/OS combo couldn't handle it, I wouldn't campaign for an RE I wanted to be sold separately under (an inaccurate comparison of) inclusivity - I'd freak'n go out and buy a new machine! Or wait. Whatev's. It's only stuff.
Why is my description of inclusivity inaccurate? If Reason Studios were a not-for-profit, they wouldn't be doing this. The only reason they're doing this is for profit - 100%. That's why I'm calling it out because it does effect me and others and it does seem like a cynical decision on their part to not make something, where incompatibility is not an issue, available to as wide an audience as possible.
by this logic, we should be able to run Reason on a 386 running Windows 3.1, because “inclusion”, I guess? 🤔
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/track/the-lake-door

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

avasopht wrote:
10 Sep 2021
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Why is my description of inclusivity inaccurate? If Reason Studios were a not-for-profit, they wouldn't be doing this. The only reason they're doing this is for profit - 100%. That's why I'm calling it out because it does effect me and others and it does seem like a cynical decision on their part to not make something, where incompatibility is not an issue, available to as wide an audience as possible.
Are you sure about that?

Are you 100% sure it doesn't use any features not found in the older SDK?
I'm 100% sure Mimic was built with SDK Version 4.2.0 - Released May 20th 2020.
Rack Extensions created with this SDK require Reason 10.1 or later.

The decision to limit the availability of this RE is a cynical one that is ultimately quite exploitative of the Reason customer base, imho.

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Loque
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
avasopht wrote:
10 Sep 2021


Are you sure about that?

Are you 100% sure it doesn't use any features not found in the older SDK?
I'm 100% sure Mimic was built with SDK Version 4.2.0 - Released May 20th 2020.
Rack Extensions created with this SDK require Reason 10.1 or later.

The decision to limit the availability of this RE is a cynical one that is ultimately quite exploitative of the Reason customer base, imho.
Its a decision by the company. Nothing less, nothing more.
I accapt you do not like it. Its ok. Thanks for letting us know.
I dont feel exploited.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

Loque wrote:
10 Sep 2021
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021


I'm 100% sure Mimic was built with SDK Version 4.2.0 - Released May 20th 2020.
Rack Extensions created with this SDK require Reason 10.1 or later.

The decision to limit the availability of this RE is a cynical one that is ultimately quite exploitative of the Reason customer base, imho.
Its a decision by the company. Nothing less, nothing more.
I accept you do not like it. Its ok. Thanks for letting us know.
I dont feel exploited.
Well, this is a public forum. If enough people express a dissatisfaction then perhaps Reason Studios will offer more options to those who want Mimic. Currently you have one option. Get Reason 12. This isn't an option for everyone because of the increased system requirements.

I've demonstrated that there is no technical reason why Mimic couldn't be available to more of the customer base.

I don't understand why the attitude in response to this from my fellow reason users is one of apathy, contempt or ridicule.

Without customers Reason Studios wouldn't have a business. Why are we tolerating Reason Studios dictating a relationship that involves them sharing the fruits of their labour in the most narrow way possible as a means to extract as much profit from the user base? Surely that's not a healthy customer business relationship? Surely a slightly more relaxed and customer-friendly approach would win the day for everyone?

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
I've demonstrated that there is no technical reason why Mimic couldn't be available to more of the customer base.
the technical reason is that the code doesn’t exist in earlier versions.
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/track/the-lake-door

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

guitfnky wrote:
10 Sep 2021
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
I've demonstrated that there is no technical reason why Mimic couldn't be available to more of the customer base.
the technical reason is that the code doesn’t exist in earlier versions.
What code? Mimic is an RE, the code is self-contained in the RE's directory with the Mimic assets. It just so happens that RE directory is embedded inside the Reason 12 application bundle. There is no actual real dependency on Reason 12. All embedded devices from Reason 6 onwards are just Rack Extensions! They could either be published to the store or published as an embedded device into the Reason.app or sometimes both (as Beatmap was when it originally launched).

It's not for a technical reason that Mimic isn't available in the shop, it's for a profit-driven proprietarianism.

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 10 Sep 2021

Apathy, contempt and ridicule. The holy trinity of user group interaction.

Mimic is not a sampler worthy of even the mildest meltdown against society and the corporate evil. It's a shiny sticker on a sub par version release. Load up Kong or Dr. octorex or Grain and do your thing.

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guitfnky
Posts: 3850
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
guitfnky wrote:
10 Sep 2021


the technical reason is that the code doesn’t exist in earlier versions.
It just so happens that RE directory is embedded inside the Reason 12 application bundle.
okay, so that’s your technical reason. 🤷🏻‍♂️
I write bad music for good people

latest release—The Lake Door:
bit.ly/TheLakeDoor-Soundcloud
https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/track/the-lake-door

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joeyluck
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
They've artificially and deliberately decided to publish Mimic as an exclusive in Reason 12 to try and make a weak upgrade look more enticing.
I get the desire to have Mimic, but you're looking at this the wrong way. They did not artificially decide to make Mimic exclusive to R12. Mimic was planned as part of R12 from the beginning.

They develop their devices as REs. Every instrument and effect they have made in the past decade has been made with the RE SDK. Just like Europa, Grain, and others. So things they decide to have built-in now, maybe aside from the new Combinator, are made with the RE SDK.

I always thought it wasn't good to sell things separately that are included. That's not a good value for the customer and it causes confusion in the shop. Some like yourself may dislike it today, but then down the road, you'll find yourself able to upgrade and then get something you had already paid for. To me, what they are doing now is the more honest thing. Mimic is a value of R12 as it had been planned to be. It just happened to be built with the RE SDK because that's how they build their instruments.

DaveyG
Posts: 1189
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 10 Sep 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Mimic is not a sampler worthy of even the mildest meltdown against society and the corporate evil. It's a shiny sticker on a sub par version release. Load up Kong or Dr. octorex or Grain and do your thing.
Haha. And amen to that brother. :clap: :clap: :clap:

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

joeyluck wrote:
10 Sep 2021
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
They've artificially and deliberately decided to publish Mimic as an exclusive in Reason 12 to try and make a weak upgrade look more enticing.
I get the desire to have Mimic, but you're looking at this the wrong way. They did not artificially decide to make Mimic exclusive to R12. Mimic was planned as part of R12 from the beginning.

They develop their devices as REs. Every instrument and effect they have made in the past decade has been made with the RE SDK. Just like Europa, Grain, and others. So things they decide to have built-in now, maybe aside from the new Combinator, are made with the RE SDK.

I always thought it wasn't good to sell things separately that are included. That's not a good value for the customer and it causes confusion in the shop. Some like yourself may dislike it today, but then down the road, you'll find yourself able to upgrade and then get something you had already paid for. To me, what they are doing now is the more honest thing. Mimic is a value of R12 as it had been planned to be. It just happened to be built with the RE SDK because that's how they build their instruments.
I see what you're saying Joey. Having said that, next time they release an instrument I imagine it will be standalone again. It will be an automatic add to the Companion for Reason+ owners, requiring no further payment, and also a one-off standalone RE purchase required for perpetual license customers.

If they do that, then it begs the question why couldn't Mimic have been that way too? Give your customers options. Yes I may end up paying twice for something in the long run but I should be able to do that if it suits my current needs and situation. The way it stands I've had that choice taken away from me and without any technical basis.

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Apathy, contempt and ridicule. The holy trinity of user group interaction.

Mimic is not a sampler worthy of even the mildest meltdown against society and the corporate evil. It's a shiny sticker on a sub par version release. Load up Kong or Dr. octorex or Grain and do your thing.
Top lad.

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EnochLight
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
I see what you're saying Joey. Having said that, next time they release an instrument I imagine it will be standalone again. It will be an automatic add to the Companion for Reason+ owners, requiring no further payment, and also a one-off standalone RE purchase required for perpetual license customers.

If they do that, then it begs the question why couldn't Mimic have been that way too? Give your customers options. Yes I may end up paying twice for something in the long run but I should be able to do that if it suits my current needs and situation. The way it stands I've had that choice taken away from me and without any technical basis.
Because they were trying to appease perpetual license users who aren't on R+, so including it in R12 perpetual was a good choice to do just that. You DO have options. Your options are: subscribe to R+, or if you want to stay on a perpetual license, buy the R12 upgrade. What you are asking is for a third option. Good luck with that.
Win 10 | Reason 12 |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
10 Sep 2021
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
I see what you're saying Joey. Having said that, next time they release an instrument I imagine it will be standalone again. It will be an automatic add to the Companion for Reason+ owners, requiring no further payment, and also a one-off standalone RE purchase required for perpetual license customers.

If they do that, then it begs the question why couldn't Mimic have been that way too? Give your customers options. Yes I may end up paying twice for something in the long run but I should be able to do that if it suits my current needs and situation. The way it stands I've had that choice taken away from me and without any technical basis.
Because they were trying to appease perpetual license users who aren't on R+, so including it in R12 perpetual was a good choice to do just that. You DO have options. Your options are: subscribe to R+, or if you want to stay on a perpetual license, buy the R12 upgrade. What you are asking is for a third option. Good luck with that.
When I bought Reason 11 Suite, I got REs added to my account automatically.

They could have easily used that method with Mimic:
  • Automatically add it as bought to your account if you buy Reason 12 perpetual
  • Or if you're a Reason+ user have it freely available to install via the Companion
  • And if neither of the above, also have it for a standalone price in the shop
It would be in better keeping with Reason's modular nature; for a while you can buy new parts for the older model. On the newer model those new parts comes as standard.

That sounds like a fairer set up to me. My argument is that I know Mimic can fit inside the older model without any modification needed. It isn't incompatible. The manufacturer has just deliberately decided to stop this from happening to make the new model look more exciting in the brochure and also perhaps to try and push their rent-a-car pitch more too.

That's all fine but it doesn't mean I have to respect them for it, it's not a great deal for me when all's said and done. I would like them to do better for existing previous model owners too, that's my point. It's just a shame such a request must fall on deaf ears.

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EnochLight
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
When I bought Reason 11 Suite, I got REs added to my account automatically.

They could have easily used that method with Mimic
Suite was a one-off product offer that included additional RE's for an additional cost. Not even the same thing here. No one is debating that Mimic was built with the RE SDK and could technically run in Reason 11 - we all know it can. It's clearly a business decision - one that adds value to Reason 12. For the record, Reason 11 is over 2 years old. Software companies make money by selling new licenses and upgrades to the latest version. They made the call to make Mimic part of 12, and I completely understand why. Makes total sense to me from a business standpoint - they're not a charity, they're in business to make money selling shit.
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
That's all fine but it doesn't mean I have to respect them for it, it's not a great deal for me when all's said and done. I would like them to do better for existing previous model owners too, that's my point. It's just a shame such a request must fall on deaf ears.
If you recently bought Reason Suite, then sure - maybe not the best deal for you since you literally just upgraded. But if you've had it a while, then 12's value become a bit better - depending on if you see value in the (massively improved - no seriously) Combinator 2, hi-res graphics, faster recursive browser, and Mimic - as well as the other items coming over the next 3-4 months mentioned in the timeline that's planned. And for 11 owners, they got quite a few updates in 11.x releases that added value to 11 Suite owners - and surprisingly some of them were for the standalone DAW. Isn't this doing better for 11 Suite owners?

11.1:

Reason Rack Plugin is now available in AUv2 format
Reason 11.1 and Reason Rack Plugin are now notarized and ready for macOS Catalina
Added keyboard input to Reason Rack Plugin, you can now use Tab, Delete, Enter, cmd/ctrl+z and the arrow keys.
Added Bypass support to Reason Rack Plugin (VST3)

11.2:

New Player device included in Reason and Reason Suite: Beat Map Algorhythmic Drummer
New MIDI Out Device in Reason Rack Plugin, you can now send MIDI notes and MIDI CC to your host
New MIDI Out Device replacing the External MIDI Instrument in Reason standalone
Drag MIDI notes to track from Redrum, Dr OctoRex and Matrix from Reason Rack Plugin
New version of Authorizer with several improvements

11.3-11.3.2:

Reason Rack Plugin is now available to Pro Tools users as an AAX plugin
Reason Rack Plugin for AAX is now available as "Effect" as well, under various effect submenus. With RRP Effect, the empty rack shows the most used effect devices, for quick access.
Added Remote files for Novation Launchkey mk3 series.
Browsing for Default Song Template in the Preferences will now open a regular OS file browser.
It's now possible to create a Player in a new rack by dragging and dropping it onto a rack divider.

11.3.3:

Skip button at plugin scanning now skips only one plugin instead of all remaining plugins
New “Enable All” button in Manage Plugins to re-enable all failed plugins for scan on restart

11.3.4:

Updated version of Beat Map (included in Reason & Reason Suite)
Two brand new maps, Arctic and Tharsis
A number of new device patches and Combinator style patches, using the new maps
Three quick buttons for setting Reset Step to 16, 32 or 64. These are especially useful when the maps play long, complex rhythms. Restrain the beat by selecting 16, and play a variation or fill by briefly selecting 64
Default value for Reset Step changed to 32

11.3.9:

Feature: Shift+doubleclick on note in Edit mode selects that note + all following notes until end of clip
Win 10 | Reason 12 |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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QVprod
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
09 Sep 2021


I would buy Reason 12 but I can't run it! It requires Windows 10 or macOS 10.13. I have macOS 10.11 and can't run higher.

This argument can go back and forth forever so how about an actual possible solution?

The harsh truth is that you're 5 operating systems behind the current one, so it was bound that something would eventually be incompatible. Rule of thumb when possible is to be 2-3 OS behind max.

That said, depending on how old your mac is, you can still update it even though Apple doesn't support it. I did this up until a few years ago with a 2006 Mac Pro and was able to run Yosemite (10.10) on it with no issues. And it's not very complicated to do.

https://www.macworld.co.uk/how-to/insta ... c-3654960/

Then, problem solved! You can just buy Reason 12 for only $30 more than what they would've likely charged for Mimic had they released it separately.

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MannequinRaces
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 10 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
10 Sep 2021
MannequinRaces wrote:
10 Sep 2021
^^^^^ This guy, lol. Give it up man. Upgrade or fade into the background. This is how software and hardware work. It’s called planned obsolescence. :)
:lol:

I mean, I feel their pain - I'm on a computer that's approaching a decade old and still haven't pulled the trigger to buy a new machine. But, I'm fortunate that on Windows these sort of software issues are extremely rare these days. That said, if Reason 12 didn't run on my computer because my hardware/OS combo couldn't handle it, I wouldn't campaign for an RE I wanted to be sold separately under (an inaccurate comparison of) inclusivity - I'd freak'n go out and buy a new machine! Or wait. Whatev's. It's only stuff.
I feel their pain also. I’m not on 12 yet because I need to update my Mac OS and my aging computer is getting long in the tooth, like a lot of people. At this point might as well wait for M1 support and decide after R12 is a bit more mature. You won’t see me campaigning for this nonsense though of breaking things out of code just to appease the minority group with aging hardware / software. That’s just entertaining silly talk at this point.

rootwheel
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Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 10 Sep 2021

Never mind, I've found Serato Sample VST.

Even though Serato states the system requirements as being this:

macOS Mojave 10.14
macOS Catalina 10.15
macOS Big Sur 11

(which is higher than Reason 12 is asking!) I decided to just take a chance and download the demo - and lo and behold the VST works great on El Capitan Reason 11.

It's only $99 and does everything I wanted from Mimic, with the only exception being I can't drag and drop directly from the Reason Browser and ReFills but I can easily work around that by importing via a drag, drop and bounce clip to disk from the sequencer first.

The CPU usage is amazingly low in polyphonic mode too, I thought it would be really high given that's been one of the main complaints I've read about Mimic in advanced mode.

Anyway that's $99 I could have sent Reason Studios' way that they've missed out on.

So long, and thanks for all the apathy, contempt and ridicule.

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MannequinRaces
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
So long, and thanks for all the apathy, contempt and ridicule.
Builds character. Enjoy Serato!

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avasopht
Posts: 2702
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Never mind, I've found Serato Sample VST.

Even though Serato states the system requirements as being this:

macOS Mojave 10.14
macOS Catalina 10.15
macOS Big Sur 11

(which is higher than Reason 12 is asking!) I decided to just take a chance and download the demo - and lo and behold the VST works great on El Capitan Reason 11.

It's only $99 and does everything I wanted from Mimic, with the only exception being I can't drag and drop directly from the Reason Browser and ReFills but I can easily work around that by importing via a drag, drop and bounce clip to disk from the sequencer first.

The CPU usage is amazingly low in polyphonic mode too, I thought it would be really high given that's been one of the main complaints I've read about Mimic in advanced mode.

Anyway that's $99 I could have sent Reason Studios' way that they've missed out on.

So long, and thanks for all the apathy, contempt and ridicule.
Look, if there's one thing you should learn from now that could save you the most hassle in the future.

Use the right tool for the job.

If you need something like Serato, just get Serato.

I've been using Reason for nearly 20 years, but I started out with Cubase and for some years was using ProTools and sometimes Logic at the studio (this was before Record).

It's nice when you can do everything inside of an integrated system, and Reason has a hell of a lot of it. But before we got VST support (and I wasn't too keen on ReWire), I'd sometimes do the VST parts in another DAW and just import the audio.

Don't waste your time trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

Reason is first and foremost a virtual rack with one hell of a lightweight DAW. It's why it works so well as a VST plugin - it's so easy to build your own effects chains that does exactly what you want. Works great for instruments too.

But don't try to force it.

Do you see guitarists refusing to use anything but the Gibson amp? No. They usually have a massive assortment of amps, guitars, strings, picks and pedals, which they will use according to the task at hand, or at random.

Sometimes you just need a looper to record whatever comes out. Sometimes you need to be able to edit the MIDI or audio.

But don't waste your time trying to force square pegs into round holes.
---

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EnochLight
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Post 10 Sep 2021

rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Never mind, I've found Serato Sample VST.. It's only $99 and does everything I wanted from Mimic, with the only exception being I can't drag and drop directly from the Reason Browser and ReFills
And you also can't save any samples you load into Serato Sample, embedded in the VST - so don't lose them samples! :D Full disclosure: I've owned Serato Sample since release.
rootwheel wrote:
10 Sep 2021
So long, and thanks for all the apathy, contempt and ridicule.
:shock: Enjoy Serato Sample, and its tiny GUI/UX that can't be zoomed!

Image
Win 10 | Reason 12 |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Jackjackdaw
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Post 11 Sep 2021

You can't save samples embedded in Reason patches either unless it's part of a project .

rootwheel
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Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 11 Sep 2021

avasopht wrote:
10 Sep 2021
Don't waste your time trying to fit square pegs into round holes.
That's my whole creative process.

rootwheel
Posts: 67
Joined: 21 Aug 2021

Post 11 Sep 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
11 Sep 2021
You can't save samples embedded in Reason patches either unless it's part of a project .
True. Serato does work nicely in terms of sample files and Reason songs. If a sample gets moved or deleted, then when reopening the song Serato prompts you to relocate it on your drive. I'm just storing them in a folder alongside the Reason song file. Works well for me. Would have preferred to have been able to do everything natively with Props new sampler inside Reason 11 but let's not open that can of worms again - it clearly won't get me anywhere with you lot.

Anyway, thanks again everyone, it's been interesting to find out just how you see the world...

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