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Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by Loque
Billy+ wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
craste wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
Look at the latest Reason Studios video on YouTube - Most of the comments are from people screaming out for sequencer improvements.
Its a shame to see those comments, makes you fear for the future of the company. If I worked there I would stand up in the office and shout "guys and girls - like WTF are we doing here? We are not giving them what they want. Lets sort that out first and then give them more toys to play with!"
We'll enjoy playing with the 'toys' more then.
I'm still holding out hope that they surprise us all in September and we all feel silly about our comments and disappointment, but I am a little concerned that the GPU hi res could end up craving resources that would otherwise be DSP on system that don't have dedicated GPU's.
Where are systems without GPU out there?
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by avasopht
Billy+ wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
craste wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
Look at the latest Reason Studios video on YouTube - Most of the comments are from people screaming out for sequencer improvements.
Its a shame to see those comments, makes you fear for the future of the company. If I worked there I would stand up in the office and shout "guys and girls - like WTF are we doing here? We are not giving them what they want. Lets sort that out first and then give them more toys to play with!"
We'll enjoy playing with the 'toys' more then.
I'm still holding out hope that they surprise us all in September and we all feel silly about our comments and disappointment, but I am a little concerned that the GPU hi res could end up craving resources that would otherwise be DSP on system that don't have dedicated GPU's.
A dedicated GPU isn't required as most CPUs come with strong enough GPU acceleration. And that won't strain the CPU at all. In fact, it will use less CPU resources.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by Billy+
avasopht wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
Billy+ wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
I'm still holding out hope that they surprise us all in September and we all feel silly about our comments and disappointment, but I am a little concerned that the GPU hi res could end up craving resources that would otherwise be DSP on system that don't have dedicated GPU's.
A dedicated GPU isn't required as most CPUs come with strong enough GPU acceleration. And that won't strain the CPU at all. In fact, it will use less CPU resources.
Here's hoping
And with any luck a new Silicon native build will also be available fairly soon so I can buy myself a new toy.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by PhillipOrdonez
MuttReason wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
guitfnky wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
totally agree. I’ll always be optimistic and looking around that next corner to see if they’ll finally start focusing on the stuff I need, but it’s getting clearer and clearer that they’re not too interested in the DAW side of things these days. seems like the focus is on adding more bells and whistles to all the existing bells and whistles, rather than making it a robust tool for end-to-end music making.
I think that’s probably right (although to be clear, at this point none of us know *for certain* what the future holds for Reason). If Reason = the rack + DAW of choice, then so be it. If that is the case, then Reason is essentially a super-modular rompler, and there are a number of quality of life enhancements (beyond hi-res) that would take the rack to the next level… many of which have previously been pointed out on this board. I would love to see MIDI drag and drop from Reason Players, similar to drag and drop from DrOctRex and Redrum. Shouldn’t be hard to do but would be great (in my workflow in Live, anyway).
Ultimately if Reason morphs into just the rack (and the DAW is essentially deprecated over time), RS will be competing with well-developed rompler ecosystems like NI. Yes, I know Reason is modular and massively flexible - it’s not just a giant sound bank - but conceptually Reason’s role in music creation would be not that different to any other large library sound source like NI. The Maschine + Komplete package is pretty compelling (although in cost terms the equivalent of a few years of Reason+ subs!). Question is how Reason would fare long term in that part of the market. I think it would hold its own as long as RS keep expanding the capabilities of the RRP and don’t get silly with the economics (eg upgrade prices move up into multi-hundred £/$/€ and R+ sub ratchets up each year far beyond inflation). I hope I’m right!
I don't know, but I don't like the NI way. Preset upon preset, that's just no way to roll. Everything sounds "awesome" on its own but make a song with all those presets and it gets boring fast. I prefer Reason because of the immediacy of their instruments over those that come in those stupid komplete packages. I got a Maschine mkiii and haven't upgraded the komplete select 11 it came with. I'm not going to pay 200 or 300 for some presets everyone has and I'm never going to use. I feel bad every time I've bought an expansion, even though some of the samples might be good, it is all so meh. NI is so meh.
♂️
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by orthodox
I see all this discontent as a storm in a teacup. You guys are winding each other, painting the image of the company that has nothing to do with reality. You can argue with that image as long as you want, of course you will win the argument.
I cannot imagine the actual todo list they have regarding Reason features, let alone the problems they are facing implementing them. They may be not too rapid, but that's how it is. I don't think they spend their time in the bar drinking beer instead of developing.
As regards to the priorities, if they decide that the hi-res is important now for engaging new users, I respect that decision. I guess they know better where to go than any of the commenters.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by Billy+
Well I see at least one feature I'm after is on the todo list
viewtopic.php?p=537130#p537130
Just no date....
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by slic
orthodox wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
I see all this discontent as a storm in a teacup. You guys are winding each other, painting the image of the company that has nothing to do with reality. You can argue with that image as long as you want, of course you will win the argument.
I cannot imagine the actual todo list they have regarding Reason features, let alone the problems they are facing implementing them. They may be not too rapid, but that's how it is. I don't think they spend their time in the bar drinking beer instead of developing.
As regards to the priorities, if they decide that the hi-res is important now for engaging new users, I respect that decision. I guess they know better where to go than any of the commenters.
Well, I only bought R11 Studio last week because of the upcoming HD Graphics (scaling) update....so there is at least one. I also bought it primarily to use as a 'rack' in other DAWS (and then was very surprised how good the DAW actually was)
Also (warning- made up statistic coming) probably 95% of people making music are using another DAW and only a a very small % each year may switch to Reason (probably irrespective of how good a DAW it is), but I suspect a fairly large % will use the rack to access reason goodies in their DAW of choice, it costs the same however you use it.
From a business point of view I can only see a win here for Reason Studio. As someone else said, even if a few users who ate unhappy with the sequencer development switch to another DAW, they will probably still use the rack and continue to be customers for Re's and packs....
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by guitfnky
slic wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
even if a few users who ate unhappy with the sequencer development switch to another DAW, they will probably still use the rack and continue to be customers for Re's and packs....
perhaps in the short term. but as new Reason versions come out, it’s going to be a steeper and steeper climb for RS in terms of providing value in the rack. they require $130 to stay current (or $20 a month), so unless they’re providing truly killer devices with each update, that starts becoming a pretty good reason *not* to upgrade. and REs are great, but there’s no need to upgrade Reason to use them, until they update the SDK again. and even then, there aren’t (m)any new REs coming out that are so good that people are going to want to spend $130 to update and then more money just to use a new device or two. and it doesn’t help that RS have made it more difficult to actually get to the shop.
for people already using RRP in another DAW, you’ll probably eventually get more bang for your buck buying VSTs, or just getting additional content specific to your DAW.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by gbuck
Maybe the all the other 'DAW' companies secretly pay RS studios to not add enhancements and goodies to the sequencer/mixer so that they can compete with Reason?
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by orthodox
gbuck wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
Maybe the all the other 'DAW' companies secretly pay RS studios to not add enhancements and goodies to the sequencer/mixer so that they can compete with Reason?
That sounds insulting for us developers. Taking money for cessation of a project is humiliating.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by Carpainter
guitfnky wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
for people already using RRP in another DAW, you’ll probably eventually get more bang for your buck buying VSTs, or just getting additional content specific to your DAW.
Reason upgrades are a decent value when they go on sale. $90 doesn't buy you a whole lot in the VST plugin space these days, but it's definitely worth putting that money toward a high-quality VST plugin if there's nothing in the newest version of Reason that interests you.
Propellerhead is capable of adding high quality devices to the base package of Reason. Grain, Europa, and Quartet are proof of that. I just hope they don't start locking everything behind the RE paywall to encourage people to subscribe to Reason+.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 07 Jun 2021
by gbuck
orthodox wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
gbuck wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
Maybe the all the other 'DAW' companies secretly pay RS studios to not add enhancements and goodies to the sequencer/mixer so that they can compete with Reason?
That sounds insulting for us developers. Taking money for cessation of a project is humiliating.
I apologize, no insult intended. It was in jest (a little nitwitty). I just know Reason can/could be more awesome than it already is.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by dvdrtldg
OMG a 33 page thread for an update that's still three months away
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by Yonatan
If this thread will turn into a complaining wall as the R12 get released, it is already half way to 100 pages.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by MaMue
Thats crazy, it looks like they really do not update the sequencer once again, even there are millions of pages & commments of requests in every platform of the internet.
I mean, thats really weird, isn't it? I just can't take it anymore.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by nebraskafire
I always thougth Steinberg is really good in ignoring customers but reason...pfff...thats a completely different league.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by dannyF
They seem to be making the same mistake with Reason today as they made with all the apps / alihoopa a few years ago.
They wanted that quick cash yo.
So they split their interest/resources into competing projects internally. That's what I see with Reason+ and download packs ( can I get a whoo hoo!!! ). And just like the apps/alihoopa they will be abandoned because they ended up not being viable.
All that wasted energy and resources that could have gone into useful features. Like folder tracks in the sequencer. Feels like they are being lazy with development and this lastest fiasco with delay compensation just shows what kind of company we are dealing with now.
imo, they need to pool all resources into adding DAW features, yesterday. Before they lose customers.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by epoch
jam-s wrote: ↑07 Jun 2021
Reason is lacking a lot of customisability. Have a look at some of the options you get in Mixcraft 9 (which could be bought from humble bundle for just a few bucks recently) for example:
NewProjSettings.png
(notice the video track?)
MouseWheelSettings.png
(make it zoom like you want)
RecordingSettings.png
... and a lot of other often requested features for Reason.
Just looking at all those menus has given me a headache!
I'm glad that isn't how Reason works. In some ways, Reason is more like Apple in that you pretty much get what you're given - something that matches the developers' vision of how it should be, not yours. It's definitely not the Linux of the DAW world, that lets you go crazy with customisation of every little component of the interface...
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by mcatalao
epoch wrote: ↑08 Jun 2021
Just looking at all those menus has given me a headache!
I'm glad that isn't how Reason works. In some ways, Reason is more like Apple in that you pretty much get what you're given - something that matches the developers' vision of how it should be, not yours. It's not the Linux of the DAW world that lets you go crazy with customisation of every little component of the interface...
Well, to be honest i'd like to see a balance between what we have today (a decluttered daw that works but lacks some major features) and a completely overhauled heavy and hidden features daw where the simple things of day to day are hard to accomplish.
What you're saying is giving you a headache is stuff you configure once, other stuff at a project basis (but again, once when you begin the prokect).
Stuff that you already do to some the degree in reason's properties. Or in some menus in reason like the precount or deactivating the tutorials window.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by MaMue
Just looking at all those menus has given me a headache!
I'm glad that isn't how Reason works. In some ways, Reason is more like Apple in that you pretty much get what you're given - something that matches the developers' vision of how it should be, not yours. It's definitely not the Linux of the DAW world, that lets you go crazy with customisation of every little component of the interface...
You can't compare that.
Apple doesn't need an investor and Apple is the state of the art in software usability at all, too. There work so many genuis minds, that they do not need that much tips from a core user base. I mean imagine, Apple would had sell "photo packs" or "new little apps to use in another Software" all the time 10 years ago. Imagine they never updated their "core product" Do you really think, that would be the business to their todays success?
Nobody wants to use another DAW to use Reason, why the heck they dont just update the DAW at all? It feels really that people get forced to switch to another "Core Product / DAW".
IMO a terrible product organisation and marketing, really.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by slic
I am not saying Reason's sequencer cant be improved (and I hope it is), but guarantee you whatever DAW you use you will see something better in another DAW and something your really miss from Reason.
I should know, I have Bitwig, Live, Studio One and ReNoise as well as Reason now...Bitwig only just got comping after 7 years and its still in beta (but has folder tacks!), Live can't do audio pitch correction and has very basic midi editing, it also only just got comping after 20 years. Studio One does most things pretty well but I cant say I find it 'fun' or particularly inspiring, its very much a blank canvas.
Lots of choice, but there has never been just 'one' choice for me.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by MaMue
slic wrote: ↑08 Jun 2021
I am not saying Reason's sequencer cant be improved (and I hope it is), but guarantee you whatever DAW you use you will see something better in another DAW and something your really miss from Reason.
I should know, I have Bitwig, Live, Studio One and ReNoise as well as Reason now...Bitwig only just got comping after 7 years and its still in beta (but has folder tacks!), Live can't do audio pitch correction and has very basic midi editing, it also only just got comping after 20 years. Studio One does most things pretty well but I cant say I find it 'fun' or particularly inspiring, its very much a blank canvas.
Lots of choice, but there has never been just 'one' choice for me.
But its e.g. just some track folders ...
We are not talking about hundreds of unique new special features here. The totally basic stuff like some markers, a little clip launcer that loopes in sync...stuff like this.
Aahhh
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by dannyF
Regarding Track Folders :
The code must be so ancient and codependant between the Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. If it was easy or not to codependant they would have done it already.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by mcatalao
dannyF wrote: ↑08 Jun 2021
Regarding Track Folders :
The code must be so ancient and codependant between the Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. If it was easy or not to codependant they would have done it already.
2 or 3 years ago, yes. But nowadays with work done to create the rrp vst I doubt there is such dependency between the sequencer and the rack.
Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 08 Jun 2021
by dannyF
mcatalao wrote: ↑08 Jun 2021
dannyF wrote: ↑08 Jun 2021
Regarding Track Folders :
The code must be so ancient and codependant between the Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. If it was easy or not to codependant they would have done it already.
2 or 3 years ago, yes. But nowadays with work done to create the
rrp vst I doubt there is such dependency between the sequencer and the rack.
what mean by rrp vst?
♂️