Reason Slow Performance - when is optimisation coming?
To reduce CPU overhead in Reason, I very often use "bounce in place" and then disable the related plugins. This definitely helps to reduce CPU load. How is this different than a "freeze" (I've never used freeze in another DAW)?
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- tobypearce
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Freeze is one-step easier.
You press a freeze button and it effectively bounces the entire track to audio and uses that, whilst also disabling all the original plugins - all in one click.
The difference is that this happens behind the scenes so you don't get a second, separate track with the original one muted. When you unfreeze it simply deletes the rendered version and goes back to the original.
You press a freeze button and it effectively bounces the entire track to audio and uses that, whilst also disabling all the original plugins - all in one click.
The difference is that this happens behind the scenes so you don't get a second, separate track with the original one muted. When you unfreeze it simply deletes the rendered version and goes back to the original.
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Ah I get it - thanks for the reply.tobypearce wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Freeze is one-step easier.
You press a freeze button and it effectively bounces the entire track to audio and uses that, whilst also disabling all the original plugins - all in one click.
The difference is that this happens behind the scenes so you don't get a second, separate track with the original one muted. When you unfreeze it simply deletes the rendered version and goes back to the original.
So what happens when you freeze a MIDI track? How does the resulting audio waveform get displayed on the timeline without a new track being created?
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Totally different: Reason "bounce in place" works like rendering track and puting it back to project just as rendered wav, without ability to edit your instrument or efect. You just got huge audio sample.
In other DAWs freezing preserves whole track with midi, instruments, effects, automations etc. It's totally reversible, you click "unfreeze" and in a second you got back your whole track, you can adjust effects, instrument etc. In Ableton Live freezing lowers CPU usage to unnoticeable level
- chimp_spanner
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One thing I’d love to see is better graphical performance for VSTs. It wasn’t until I used Serum in Cubase for the first time in ages that I realised how smoothly everything moves. In reason it’s kinda sluggish and jerky. I wonder if this has anything to do with overall performance? I’ve always felt like graphics are a big piece of the puzzle. The bigger my projects get, the more sensitive they are to things like scrolling around the rack. I also experience different degrees of popping (in biiig projects) depending on which view I’m in; mixer, rack or sequencer.
When this update drops I’d love to know some of the technical stuff, like what they changed, what the cause was!
When this update drops I’d love to know some of the technical stuff, like what they changed, what the cause was!
- Marco Raaphorst
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I guess the Reason performance issues are being talking care off. I hope one day to see Reason be okay again performance wise. If I compared Reason to Ableton Live 9 Live is performing much better. Also with lower latency.NekujaK wrote: ↑11 Aug 2018A fair point. Using this suggested approach, my results are:selig wrote: ↑11 Aug 2018
As I understand it, a better simple benchmark would be to create an audio track, add the plugin, then DUPLICATE the track. It would be very uncommon to stack the same plugin on one track, but far more common to add it to multiple tracks. And again, as I understand it, the CPU hit can be different with this test and will represent a more “real world” application.
- Reason: 13 tracks/instances before maxing the CPU meter, and getting the dreaded "too slow" dialog.
- Reaper: 32 tracks/instances before maxing the CPU meter.
Reason fared significantly better using this method, while Reaper suffered a bit, but even so, the disparity remains quite large. Would love to see what kind of results other folks are getting. Even if everyone's machine specs are different, it would be interesting to see the performance ratio between Reason and other DAWs on the same machine, using this method.
On a day-to-day basis this is why I use my Reason 7 setup the most! It's the best balance between features and performance. Later versions don't give me enough additional features to justify the performance hit and earlier versions miss some of the features I need. However, as an aside I do also have a nice separate install of Reason 5 which I absolutely love using. Reason 5 gives incredible CPU performance, is really snappy and I also find it quicker to get a song started in there workflow-wise
- esselfortium
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Yes, please! No matter how well performance is optimized, track freeze is still an absolute must.EnochLight wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018Great point!MattiasHG wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018I was just about to come here to post this! When you compare performance between Reason versions, you need to compare them on the same terms. Same projects, same audio interface, same computer, same settings. Otherwise it's very likely something else has changed.
It'd be very strange to say "My Reason 8 song with mostly native devices and some REs had way better performance than my Reason 10 song with Serum, Ozone and tons of other VSTs".
That said (and completely related): when the legendary update appears that it supposed to address Reason's VST-performance issues, please PLEASE PLEASE include the option to properly freeze tracks. This additional feature would help a tremendous amount for people who really need to push Reason to its limits.
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- fieldframe
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Even better, some DAWs have a completely transparent auto-freeze that renders a track as long as you aren’t currently editing it and then unfreezes the moment you move a note or tweak a parameter (I think Studio One does this).tumar wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Totally different: Reason "bounce in place" works like rendering track and puting it back to project just as rendered wav, without ability to edit your instrument or efect. You just got huge audio sample.
In other DAWs freezing preserves whole track with midi, instruments, effects, automations etc. It's totally reversible, you click "unfreeze" and in a second you got back your whole track, you can adjust effects, instrument etc. In Ableton Live freezing lowers CPU usage to unnoticeable level
Reason 5 does not have Rack Extensions, Audio Recording, VST's, Europa and Grain, etc, etc. etc.Magnus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018On a day-to-day basis this is why I use my Reason 7 setup the most! It's the best balance between features and performance. Later versions don't give me enough additional features to justify the performance hit and earlier versions miss some of the features I need. However, as an aside I do also have a nice separate install of Reason 5 which I absolutely love using. Reason 5 gives incredible CPU performance, is really snappy and I also find it quicker to get a song started in there workflow-wise
Reason 7 does not have most recent Rack Extensions, Pitch Editor, Europa, VST's and Grain, etc. etc...
You're losing so much for not using Reason 10 and i assure you simmilar projects have simmilar performance between them as long as your definitions are also similar (since there was no possibility to enable HT on R8, you should disable it too on R10 to compare).
I'm just not a fan of Reason since v8.mcatalao wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Reason 5 does not have Rack Extensions, Audio Recording, VST's, Europa and Grain, etc, etc. etc.Magnus wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018On a day-to-day basis this is why I use my Reason 7 setup the most! It's the best balance between features and performance. Later versions don't give me enough additional features to justify the performance hit and earlier versions miss some of the features I need. However, as an aside I do also have a nice separate install of Reason 5 which I absolutely love using. Reason 5 gives incredible CPU performance, is really snappy and I also find it quicker to get a song started in there workflow-wise
Reason 7 does not have most recent Rack Extensions, Pitch Editor, Europa, VST's and Grain, etc. etc...
You're losing so much for not using Reason 10 and i assure you simmilar projects have simmilar performance between them as long as your definitions are also similar (since there was no possibility to enable HT on R8, you should disable it too on R10 to compare).
I agree with this dude!
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Well, to be fair - there's a lot of people who still love their 1998 Toyota Corolla. It gets them from point a to b, is reliable, and basically gets the job done. And then there are those who would prefer a 2018 model instead.
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I got a 2018 Honda Civic . . . . .EnochLight wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Well, to be fair - there's a lot of people who still love their 1998 Toyota Corolla. It gets them from point a to b, is reliable, and basically gets the job done. And then there are those who would prefer a 2018 model instead.
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- Marco Raaphorst
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What is the speed difference between old and new cars?
Easy question...in the past ppl thought they would die if they drive faster than 50kmh.
Reason12, Win10
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At this time the price of fuel counted and not speed. So it was a matter of how much fuel and money you need to pay for 100km.
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Well I actually meant strange as my ability to mix better. Lol, I guess i worded that with an open-ended scenario. Yeah I know what it is. It seems kind of obvious that a software full of production devices and real-time displays, multiple instruments and devices would be an obvious thing.QVprod wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Not strange at all. Audio isn't cpu intensive. Plugins are. Which is why many want a freeze function as that essentially allows you to bounce without deleting the plugin in case there's further tweaks or automation one wants to add later on. Basically what you do now, but without the need for a separate session.Kalm wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018My performance lag is based on the graphic interface of a couple devices I use, multichannel output routing, and big toys like ReSpire, Softube TSAR-1 etc. The minute I decide to remove any one of these out of my sessions, I get 1/3 of my power back. I have a little more wiggle room on my mac mini than my MacBook Pro.
But bouncing my sessions as audios to another session and constantly doing that workflow has actually improved things for me. Strange.
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Didn't know that. I have Studio One v3 Pro, but it outperforms Reason on the same machine, so I never had to freeze anything.fieldframe wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Even better, some DAWs have a completely transparent auto-freeze that renders a track as long as you aren’t currently editing it and then unfreezes the moment you move a note or tweak a parameter (I think Studio One does this).tumar wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018
Totally different: Reason "bounce in place" works like rendering track and puting it back to project just as rendered wav, without ability to edit your instrument or efect. You just got huge audio sample.
In other DAWs freezing preserves whole track with midi, instruments, effects, automations etc. It's totally reversible, you click "unfreeze" and in a second you got back your whole track, you can adjust effects, instrument etc. In Ableton Live freezing lowers CPU usage to unnoticeable level
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Absolutely! I've mentioned this in another thread or two, but I think a part of CPU issue (at least on Mac) is to do with graphics. The odd thing with the graphics issue is that if I, for example, open Serum inside one of Native Instruments plugs (Maschine or Komplete Kontrol), the graphics response is almost perfect. The knobs are responsive and the graphics move the way they're supposed to. I don't know what all this means, it's just an observation.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018One thing I’d love to see is better graphical performance for VSTs. It wasn’t until I used Serum in Cubase for the first time in ages that I realised how smoothly everything moves. In reason it’s kinda sluggish and jerky. I wonder if this has anything to do with overall performance? I’ve always felt like graphics are a big piece of the puzzle. The bigger my projects get, the more sensitive they are to things like scrolling around the rack. I also experience different degrees of popping (in biiig projects) depending on which view I’m in; mixer, rack or sequencer.
When this update drops I’d love to know some of the technical stuff, like what they changed, what the cause was!
No DAW can "optimise" a plugin's performance.Michaellos wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018
I would say that Expanse, for example, is pretty much cpu hungry, much more hungry than Omnisphere 2.5, for example. I would love to see some sort of Re performance optimization as well as VST
All DAWs can do is schedule a plugin to process audio. Plugins are executed by your CPU.
- fieldframe
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Auto-freeze is probably why, then.tumar wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Didn't know that. I have Studio One v3 Pro, but it outperforms Reason on the same machine, so I never had to freeze anything.fieldframe wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018
Even better, some DAWs have a completely transparent auto-freeze that renders a track as long as you aren’t currently editing it and then unfreezes the moment you move a note or tweak a parameter (I think Studio One does this).
Ah. Yeah I think the committing to audio has a subconscious effect on how you approach a mix.Kalm wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018Well I actually meant strange as my ability to mix better. Lol, I guess i worded that with an open-ended scenario. Yeah I know what it is. It seems kind of obvious that a software full of production devices and real-time displays, multiple instruments and devices would be an obvious thing.QVprod wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018
Not strange at all. Audio isn't cpu intensive. Plugins are. Which is why many want a freeze function as that essentially allows you to bounce without deleting the plugin in case there's further tweaks or automation one wants to add later on. Basically what you do now, but without the need for a separate session.
- Marco Raaphorst
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And GPU. I think that’s the main issue.avasopht wrote: ↑19 Oct 2018No DAW can "optimise" a plugin's performance.Michaellos wrote: ↑18 Oct 2018
I would say that Expanse, for example, is pretty much cpu hungry, much more hungry than Omnisphere 2.5, for example. I would love to see some sort of Re performance optimization as well as VST
All DAWs can do is schedule a plugin to process audio. Plugins are executed by your CPU.
- Marco Raaphorst
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This video of Rick is interesting I think:
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