Reason Slow Performance - when is optimisation coming?

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
NekujaK
Posts: 617
Joined: 09 Oct 2016
Location: USA

Post 19 Oct 2018

To reduce CPU overhead in Reason, I very often use "bounce in place" and then disable the related plugins. This definitely helps to reduce CPU load. How is this different than a "freeze" (I've never used freeze in another DAW)?
wreaking havoc with :reason: since 2.5

User avatar
tobypearce
Posts: 441
Joined: 28 Sep 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

Freeze is one-step easier.
You press a freeze button and it effectively bounces the entire track to audio and uses that, whilst also disabling all the original plugins - all in one click.
The difference is that this happens behind the scenes so you don't get a second, separate track with the original one muted. When you unfreeze it simply deletes the rendered version and goes back to the original.
https://onetrackperweek.com
A quest to create, finish and publish one track every week for a year.

User avatar
NekujaK
Posts: 617
Joined: 09 Oct 2016
Location: USA

Post 19 Oct 2018

tobypearce wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Freeze is one-step easier.
You press a freeze button and it effectively bounces the entire track to audio and uses that, whilst also disabling all the original plugins - all in one click.
The difference is that this happens behind the scenes so you don't get a second, separate track with the original one muted. When you unfreeze it simply deletes the rendered version and goes back to the original.
Ah I get it - thanks for the reply.
So what happens when you freeze a MIDI track? How does the resulting audio waveform get displayed on the timeline without a new track being created?
wreaking havoc with :reason: since 2.5

User avatar
tumar
Posts: 329
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

NekujaK wrote:
19 Oct 2018
To reduce CPU overhead in Reason, I very often use "bounce in place" and then disable the related plugins. This definitely helps to reduce CPU load. How is this different than a "freeze" (I've never used freeze in another DAW)?
Totally different: Reason "bounce in place" works like rendering track and puting it back to project just as rendered wav, without ability to edit your instrument or efect. You just got huge audio sample.
In other DAWs freezing preserves whole track with midi, instruments, effects, automations etc. It's totally reversible, you click "unfreeze" and in a second you got back your whole track, you can adjust effects, instrument etc. In Ableton Live freezing lowers CPU usage to unnoticeable level :)

User avatar
chimp_spanner
Posts: 2203
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

One thing I’d love to see is better graphical performance for VSTs. It wasn’t until I used Serum in Cubase for the first time in ages that I realised how smoothly everything moves. In reason it’s kinda sluggish and jerky. I wonder if this has anything to do with overall performance? I’ve always felt like graphics are a big piece of the puzzle. The bigger my projects get, the more sensitive they are to things like scrolling around the rack. I also experience different degrees of popping (in biiig projects) depending on which view I’m in; mixer, rack or sequencer.

When this update drops I’d love to know some of the technical stuff, like what they changed, what the cause was!
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

2017 MBP | 16GB | Steinberg UR44 | Reason 10.4 | Cubase Pro 10.5

User avatar
Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2453
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

NekujaK wrote:
11 Aug 2018
selig wrote:
11 Aug 2018


As I understand it, a better simple benchmark would be to create an audio track, add the plugin, then DUPLICATE the track. It would be very uncommon to stack the same plugin on one track, but far more common to add it to multiple tracks. And again, as I understand it, the CPU hit can be different with this test and will represent a more “real world” application.
:)
A fair point. Using this suggested approach, my results are:

- Reason: 13 tracks/instances before maxing the CPU meter, and getting the dreaded "too slow" dialog.

- Reaper: 32 tracks/instances before maxing the CPU meter.

Reason fared significantly better using this method, while Reaper suffered a bit, but even so, the disparity remains quite large. Would love to see what kind of results other folks are getting. Even if everyone's machine specs are different, it would be interesting to see the performance ratio between Reason and other DAWs on the same machine, using this method.
I guess the Reason performance issues are being talking care off. I hope one day to see Reason be okay again performance wise. If I compared Reason to Ableton Live 9 Live is performing much better. Also with lower latency.

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 139
Joined: 03 Jul 2018

Post 19 Oct 2018

On a day-to-day basis this is why I use my Reason 7 setup the most! It's the best balance between features and performance. Later versions don't give me enough additional features to justify the performance hit and earlier versions miss some of the features I need. However, as an aside I do also have a nice separate install of Reason 5 which I absolutely love using. Reason 5 gives incredible CPU performance, is really snappy and I also find it quicker to get a song started in there workflow-wise :)

User avatar
esselfortium
Posts: 1249
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

EnochLight wrote:
18 Oct 2018
MattiasHG wrote:
18 Oct 2018
I was just about to come here to post this! When you compare performance between Reason versions, you need to compare them on the same terms. Same projects, same audio interface, same computer, same settings. Otherwise it's very likely something else has changed.

It'd be very strange to say "My Reason 8 song with mostly native devices and some REs had way better performance than my Reason 10 song with Serum, Ozone and tons of other VSTs". :)
Great point!

That said (and completely related): when the legendary update appears that it supposed to address Reason's VST-performance issues, please PLEASE PLEASE include the option to properly freeze tracks. This additional feature would help a tremendous amount for people who really need to push Reason to its limits.
Yes, please! No matter how well performance is optimized, track freeze is still an absolute must.

User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 709
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 19 Oct 2018

tumar wrote:
19 Oct 2018
NekujaK wrote:
19 Oct 2018
To reduce CPU overhead in Reason, I very often use "bounce in place" and then disable the related plugins. This definitely helps to reduce CPU load. How is this different than a "freeze" (I've never used freeze in another DAW)?
Totally different: Reason "bounce in place" works like rendering track and puting it back to project just as rendered wav, without ability to edit your instrument or efect. You just got huge audio sample.
In other DAWs freezing preserves whole track with midi, instruments, effects, automations etc. It's totally reversible, you click "unfreeze" and in a second you got back your whole track, you can adjust effects, instrument etc. In Ableton Live freezing lowers CPU usage to unnoticeable level :)
Even better, some DAWs have a completely transparent auto-freeze that renders a track as long as you aren’t currently editing it and then unfreezes the moment you move a note or tweak a parameter (I think Studio One does this).
Welcome to TEST FIXTURE

mcatalao
Posts: 1084
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

Magnus wrote:
19 Oct 2018
On a day-to-day basis this is why I use my Reason 7 setup the most! It's the best balance between features and performance. Later versions don't give me enough additional features to justify the performance hit and earlier versions miss some of the features I need. However, as an aside I do also have a nice separate install of Reason 5 which I absolutely love using. Reason 5 gives incredible CPU performance, is really snappy and I also find it quicker to get a song started in there workflow-wise :)
Reason 5 does not have Rack Extensions, Audio Recording, VST's, Europa and Grain, etc, etc. etc.
Reason 7 does not have most recent Rack Extensions, Pitch Editor, Europa, VST's and Grain, etc. etc...

You're losing so much for not using Reason 10 and i assure you simmilar projects have simmilar performance between them as long as your definitions are also similar (since there was no possibility to enable HT on R8, you should disable it too on R10 to compare).

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 139
Joined: 03 Jul 2018

Post 19 Oct 2018

mcatalao wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Magnus wrote:
19 Oct 2018
On a day-to-day basis this is why I use my Reason 7 setup the most! It's the best balance between features and performance. Later versions don't give me enough additional features to justify the performance hit and earlier versions miss some of the features I need. However, as an aside I do also have a nice separate install of Reason 5 which I absolutely love using. Reason 5 gives incredible CPU performance, is really snappy and I also find it quicker to get a song started in there workflow-wise :)
Reason 5 does not have Rack Extensions, Audio Recording, VST's, Europa and Grain, etc, etc. etc.
Reason 7 does not have most recent Rack Extensions, Pitch Editor, Europa, VST's and Grain, etc. etc...

You're losing so much for not using Reason 10 and i assure you simmilar projects have simmilar performance between them as long as your definitions are also similar (since there was no possibility to enable HT on R8, you should disable it too on R10 to compare).
I'm just not a fan of Reason since v8.
sdst wrote:
18 Oct 2018
just give me Reason 5 with audio track and rack extensions,

forget reason 11
I agree with this dude!

User avatar
EnochLight
Posts: 5934
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 19 Oct 2018

Well, to be fair - there's a lot of people who still love their 1998 Toyota Corolla. It gets them from point a to b, is reliable, and basically gets the job done. And then there are those who would prefer a 2018 model instead.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

User avatar
Kalm
Posts: 293
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Location: Austin

Post 19 Oct 2018

EnochLight wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Well, to be fair - there's a lot of people who still love their 1998 Toyota Corolla. It gets them from point a to b, is reliable, and basically gets the job done. And then there are those who would prefer a 2018 model instead.
I got a 2018 Honda Civic . . . . .
Courtesy of The Brew | Mac Mini Intel i7 Quad-Core | 8 GB RAM | Apple 1 TB & Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB | Reason 10 | Studio One 3 Professional | Ozone 7 | Pro Tools 12 | Adobe CC | Presonus FireStudio Project | M-Audio Axiom | And many plugs

User avatar
Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2453
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

What is the speed difference between old and new cars?

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 6326
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
19 Oct 2018
What is the speed difference between old and new cars?
Easy question...in the past ppl thought they would die if they drive faster than 50kmh.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2453
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

Loque wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Marco Raaphorst wrote:
19 Oct 2018
What is the speed difference between old and new cars?
Easy question...in the past ppl thought they would die if they drive faster than 50kmh.
And in 1998?

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 6326
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Loque wrote:
19 Oct 2018


Easy question...in the past ppl thought they would die if they drive faster than 50kmh.
And in 1998?
At this time the price of fuel counted and not speed. So it was a matter of how much fuel and money you need to pay for 100km.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
Kalm
Posts: 293
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Location: Austin

Post 19 Oct 2018

QVprod wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Kalm wrote:
18 Oct 2018
My performance lag is based on the graphic interface of a couple devices I use, multichannel output routing, and big toys like ReSpire, Softube TSAR-1 etc. The minute I decide to remove any one of these out of my sessions, I get 1/3 of my power back. I have a little more wiggle room on my mac mini than my MacBook Pro.

But bouncing my sessions as audios to another session and constantly doing that workflow has actually improved things for me. Strange.
Not strange at all. Audio isn't cpu intensive. Plugins are. Which is why many want a freeze function as that essentially allows you to bounce without deleting the plugin in case there's further tweaks or automation one wants to add later on. Basically what you do now, but without the need for a separate session.
Well I actually meant strange as my ability to mix better. Lol, I guess i worded that with an open-ended scenario. Yeah I know what it is. It seems kind of obvious that a software full of production devices and real-time displays, multiple instruments and devices would be an obvious thing.
Courtesy of The Brew | Mac Mini Intel i7 Quad-Core | 8 GB RAM | Apple 1 TB & Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB | Reason 10 | Studio One 3 Professional | Ozone 7 | Pro Tools 12 | Adobe CC | Presonus FireStudio Project | M-Audio Axiom | And many plugs

User avatar
tumar
Posts: 329
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

fieldframe wrote:
19 Oct 2018
tumar wrote:
19 Oct 2018


Totally different: Reason "bounce in place" works like rendering track and puting it back to project just as rendered wav, without ability to edit your instrument or efect. You just got huge audio sample.
In other DAWs freezing preserves whole track with midi, instruments, effects, automations etc. It's totally reversible, you click "unfreeze" and in a second you got back your whole track, you can adjust effects, instrument etc. In Ableton Live freezing lowers CPU usage to unnoticeable level :)
Even better, some DAWs have a completely transparent auto-freeze that renders a track as long as you aren’t currently editing it and then unfreezes the moment you move a note or tweak a parameter (I think Studio One does this).
Didn't know that. I have Studio One v3 Pro, but it outperforms Reason on the same machine, so I never had to freeze anything.

Hauser+Quaid
Posts: 147
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 19 Oct 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
19 Oct 2018
One thing I’d love to see is better graphical performance for VSTs. It wasn’t until I used Serum in Cubase for the first time in ages that I realised how smoothly everything moves. In reason it’s kinda sluggish and jerky. I wonder if this has anything to do with overall performance? I’ve always felt like graphics are a big piece of the puzzle. The bigger my projects get, the more sensitive they are to things like scrolling around the rack. I also experience different degrees of popping (in biiig projects) depending on which view I’m in; mixer, rack or sequencer.

When this update drops I’d love to know some of the technical stuff, like what they changed, what the cause was!
Absolutely! I've mentioned this in another thread or two, but I think a part of CPU issue (at least on Mac) is to do with graphics. The odd thing with the graphics issue is that if I, for example, open Serum inside one of Native Instruments plugs (Maschine or Komplete Kontrol), the graphics response is almost perfect. The knobs are responsive and the graphics move the way they're supposed to. I don't know what all this means, it's just an observation.

User avatar
avasopht
Posts: 1947
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 19 Oct 2018

Michaellos wrote:
18 Oct 2018

I would say that Expanse, for example, is pretty much cpu hungry, much more hungry than Omnisphere 2.5, for example. I would love to see some sort of Re performance optimization as well as VST
No DAW can "optimise" a plugin's performance.

All DAWs can do is schedule a plugin to process audio. Plugins are executed by your CPU.
---

User avatar
fieldframe
Posts: 709
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 19 Oct 2018

tumar wrote:
19 Oct 2018
fieldframe wrote:
19 Oct 2018


Even better, some DAWs have a completely transparent auto-freeze that renders a track as long as you aren’t currently editing it and then unfreezes the moment you move a note or tweak a parameter (I think Studio One does this).
Didn't know that. I have Studio One v3 Pro, but it outperforms Reason on the same machine, so I never had to freeze anything.
Auto-freeze is probably why, then. :)
Welcome to TEST FIXTURE

User avatar
QVprod
Posts: 2346
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 20 Oct 2018

Kalm wrote:
19 Oct 2018
QVprod wrote:
19 Oct 2018


Not strange at all. Audio isn't cpu intensive. Plugins are. Which is why many want a freeze function as that essentially allows you to bounce without deleting the plugin in case there's further tweaks or automation one wants to add later on. Basically what you do now, but without the need for a separate session.
Well I actually meant strange as my ability to mix better. Lol, I guess i worded that with an open-ended scenario. Yeah I know what it is. It seems kind of obvious that a software full of production devices and real-time displays, multiple instruments and devices would be an obvious thing.
Ah. Yeah I think the committing to audio has a subconscious effect on how you approach a mix.

User avatar
Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2453
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 20 Oct 2018

avasopht wrote:
19 Oct 2018
Michaellos wrote:
18 Oct 2018

I would say that Expanse, for example, is pretty much cpu hungry, much more hungry than Omnisphere 2.5, for example. I would love to see some sort of Re performance optimization as well as VST
No DAW can "optimise" a plugin's performance.

All DAWs can do is schedule a plugin to process audio. Plugins are executed by your CPU.
And GPU. I think that’s the main issue.

User avatar
Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2453
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 20 Oct 2018

This video of Rick is interesting I think:


  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Boombastix, SebAudio, TritoneAddiction and 13 guests