Beatstep with Reason/Ableton - Sync/Tempo Problem

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didlow
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Jan 2023

Post 19 Jan 2023

Hello to all,
I come to you to try to find a solution to my problem.
Indeed, I try by all means to synchronize my Arturia Beatstep and or my Nektar Audio with Reason or Ableton.
And I always meet the same concern, that is to say that it notes sent sound late (control of delay does not change anything) but especially that they are random.

On a 1/4 loop, the first keystroke will always be a few ms late and if I loop, each keystroke it taps a few seconds apart.

I tried to change the Usb port, to change the cable, to change the sound card, to change the external sequencer, nothing to do the problem persists
I also tried on Ableton, same fight.
I updated all my drivers. and as it did not work, I even redid a new installation of Windows 10. but I dry royal.
It's not a latency problem in my opinion since it plays (check with midi view) each note has 3ms of difference.

I implore you to help me! I'm very angry.

Thanks in advance.

A picture of the problem
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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 19 Jan 2023

What's the buffer size you're working with in Reason and Ableton Live?

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moalla
Posts: 324
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: DDR WEST

Post 20 Jan 2023

The Timing of beatstep must be a problem in general of its firmware, had a similiar problem with m-audios trigger finger pro clock . So maybe you have asked now in several forums how to solve this problem, after I have made a research about this problem last spring, I decided against to get a Beatstep.
Only way to work with controllers like beatstep or trigger finger, use it in slave mode and play a little bit with negative midi timing in reasons preferences..... At the end I decided to get a rythm wolf drumcomputer as master clock for live usage with various outboard equipment, also because the midi clock output of Reason is strongly fluctating and it was a big problem to bring reason and a boss RC505 in syncronicity (checked with midimonitor +/- 0.4bpm and more over 120bpm)
What´s working as well for me, when Reason receives the clock from audiobus on Ipad/Iphone, or the RC505 via midi.
I also tried loopBe with midi ox as master, but also doesn´t working well......
viewtopic.php?t=7528684
The only way out i can advise you, use a device with hardware clock and spread the signal with a midithru splitter, or send it to a chain of devices with midi thru function.
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Ibanez SR305, Yamaha PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE

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Arpeg
Posts: 109
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Post 20 Jan 2023

relevant or not but I'll throw it in.. I was watching a video a couple of years back where a guy was having problems midi sync'ing his hardware together.
After trying this n' that he ended up using the PRE-CLICK in the DAW he was using which gave the devices he had midi sync'd up time to, let's say, get ready to sync correctly at start and in time, I believe
Last edited by Arpeg on 20 Jan 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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Arpeg
Posts: 109
Joined: 31 Oct 2021

Post 20 Jan 2023

ahh I've found it :

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selig
RE Developer
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 20 Jan 2023

Arpeg wrote:
20 Jan 2023
relevant or not but I'll throw it in.. I was watching a video a couple of years back where a guy was having problems midi sync'ing his hardware together.
After trying this n' that he ended up using the PRE-CLICK in the DAW he was using which gave the devices he had midi sync'd up time to, let's say, get ready to sync correctly at start and in time, I believe
This is because the seq that is synced can’t know when you will hit play, so the first note will always be a little late compared to others. When syncing it’s always best to leave an empty bar at the top of the song.
Selig Audio, LLC

Goriila Texas
Posts: 886
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Houston TX

Post 22 Jan 2023

Works so well I set mines to 512 samples and have near zero latency for audio or midi recording.


Eddi-16
Posts: 294
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 23 Jan 2023

I had trigger finger pro (TFP), too. I could not solve the latency issue, found no solution. It was very bad to work this way, no chance to have a good workflow. I tried KORG SQ64 and again the sync was very bad. Sure, it was waaaaay better than TFP, but still bad. I tried beatstep pro with this - I cant remeber the name ... "kuadasai" or "kuadai" midi remote file codec (see forum on reasontalk for correct name) and there was still latency. It was the best workflow of the 3 controllers, but you always had to quarantise it afterwards or move it manually sometimes.

My conclusion after many, many researches and installs of different midi controllers is, that Reasons internal midisync engine is - like so much else in terms of workflow and DAW tech - just outdated and not up to date. I have no intentions of saying anything bad about Reason, so correct me, if I am wrong.

I gave up trying to sync the BSP or any other midi step sequencer, it won't work in my opinion. I selled everything.

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mimidancer
Posts: 293
Joined: 30 Sep 2021

Post 23 Jan 2023

didlow wrote:
19 Jan 2023
Hello to all,
I come to you to try to find a solution to my problem.
Indeed, I try by all means to synchronize my Arturia Beatstep and or my Nektar Audio with Reason or Ableton.
And I always meet the same concern, that is to say that it notes sent sound late (control of delay does not change anything) but especially that they are random.

On a 1/4 loop, the first keystroke will always be a few ms late and if I loop, each keystroke it taps a few seconds apart.

I tried to change the Usb port, to change the cable, to change the sound card, to change the external sequencer, nothing to do the problem persists
I also tried on Ableton, same fight.
I updated all my drivers. and as it did not work, I even redid a new installation of Windows 10. but I dry royal.
It's not a latency problem in my opinion since it plays (check with midi view) each note has 3ms of difference.

I implore you to help me! I'm very angry.

Thanks in advance.

A picture of the problem
Look at you clock out. set it to negative the amount of latency you are experiencing. Keep in mind you have latency both in and out. use your ears not your eyes as you solve this.

didlow
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Jan 2023

Post 24 Jan 2023

Bonjour,

I thank you all for your answers.

I have tried with the NEKTARINE AURA and it is exactly the same problem. I have rebuilt my pc and installed WINDOWS 11 with all the drivers up to date and the problem persists. Whether I am in 1024 or 256 latency does not change anything, whether I am with the ASIO or MME driver does not change anything.
I tried with the AURA or the Beatstep in Master without success. The problem is not that it has delay, it is that it is not in rhythm.
Recording with Q record can help, but it's by far not what I was looking for when I bought this kind of controller. The worst is that I'm sure that at the time (beginning of the year) the Beatstep was in sync. And since I haven't changed anything, so I think it's more my ASUS H470 motherboard or ESI U22XT sound card. Can buying an external midi clock solve the problem or will it be exactly the same ( USB to Reason) ? Thanks for your help, I'm going to look again at the links you suggested.

Didier

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Arpeg
Posts: 109
Joined: 31 Oct 2021

Post 26 Jan 2023

selig wrote:
20 Jan 2023
Arpeg wrote:
20 Jan 2023
relevant or not but I'll throw it in.. I was watching a video a couple of years back where a guy was having problems midi sync'ing his hardware together.
After trying this n' that he ended up using the PRE-CLICK in the DAW he was using which gave the devices he had midi sync'd up time to, let's say, get ready to sync correctly at start and in time, I believe
This is because the seq that is synced can’t know when you will hit play, so the first note will always be a little late compared to others. When syncing it’s always best to leave an empty bar at the top of the song.
Ooops, I didn't notice the reply, thank you very much Selig, much appreciated

didlow
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Jan 2023

Post 27 Jan 2023

Hi

A short video from my problem. the quality is bad, so sorry.

Maybe you see my problem a little better

Many thanks

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/X9PxY3svoaw

And the .Mid files

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5bb9an64b9r6 ... k.mid?dl=0

didlow
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Jan 2023

Post 28 Jan 2023

It's terrible this story ...
I bought a sequencer (normally made to work with my DAW) saying to myself, cool, plug & play ... I didn't think I would have to tear my hair out, have to do audio and computer engineering. spelling out thousands of forums, posts about midi clock ... damn it's 2023 ! and I can't afford to be on a Mac (as long as their midi clock is nicer....) anyway ... would a usb HUB or an external midi clock solve my problem ? knowing that I have everything on usb ... AURA and BEATSTEP have only one midi output ... I contacted Arturia, Nektar, and ESI ... nobody has a solution ... fuck ... anyway ... the one who will find the solution will be my king !

(Sorry i'm Swiss and I don't speak English)

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moalla
Posts: 324
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: DDR WEST

Post 28 Jan 2023

From my experience It‘s a problem with reasons clock , we had the same problem to get a rc505 in sync with reasons, now with a external clock it works, but if i want sync more devices without midi thru function, to sync instruments in a chain, a midi splitter is needed. The chepeast one is from miditech for 45€ + clock/drummachine 200€. So it would be really helpfull if someone here in the forum knows more about this problem...
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Ibanez SR305, Yamaha PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE

didlow
Posts: 6
Joined: 13 Jan 2023

Post 29 Jan 2023

moalla wrote:
28 Jan 2023
From my experience It‘s a problem with reasons clock , we had the same problem to get a rc505 in sync with reasons, now with a external clock it works, but if i want sync more devices without midi thru function, to sync instruments in a chain, a midi splitter is needed. The chepeast one is from miditech for 45€ + clock/drummachine 200€. So it would be really helpfull if someone here in the forum knows more about this problem...
Thank you for your answer.

The problem is that all my devices are USB. Is there an external USB midi clock on the market?

I will try with Ableton to see.

Thanks

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