Cakewalk vs Reason

Want to talk about music hardware or software that doesn't include Reason?
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Creativemind
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Post 09 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
05 Feb 2020
>
cakewalk_color_shades.PNG
That's a nice looking mixer there. I always assumed there was a mono button (so you can listen to that channel solo'd in mono, then stereo) on Cakewalks mixer channels though but don't see it there. Perhaps I'm thinking of Reaper.

What do the keyboard icons at the bottom represent, that they're midi instrument tracks?

I did peruse Cakewalk By Bandlab a few months ago (for a few days) to see what it was all about and did notice it was very feature rich but it lacked instruments. That's what let it down. With being able to use the Reason Rack Plug-In within it though now should change things somewhat. Might be worth another looksy.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Proboscis
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Post 09 Feb 2020

Creativemind wrote:
09 Feb 2020
I always assumed there was a mono button (so you can listen to that channel solo'd in mono, then stereo) on Cakewalks mixer channels

What do the keyboard icons at the bottom represent, that they're midi instrument tracks?
I took a look into your stereo/mono query, it appears that this does exist, its the button at the top left of these snapshots:


>
mono.PNG
cakewalk_stereo2.PNG

And there are three icon types on the channel strips. Audio, MIDI & instrument. I'm haven't yet started using Cakewalk properly, so I don't know what differentiates a MIDI track and an instrument track.......

>
cakewalk_icons.PNG
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Proboscis
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Post 09 Feb 2020

Another cool feature of Cakewalk, to maximize screen space on large projects, is that the channel strips can be changed to 'narrow'. Here's an example of 2 & 3 in their reduced width state

Another feature is that you can completely hide strips from view

>
cakewalk_narrow_strips.PNG
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
09 Feb 2020
Another cool feature of Cakewalk, to maximize screen space on large projects, is that the channel strips can be changed to 'narrow'. Here's an example of 2 & 3 in their reduced width state

Another feature is that you can completely hide strips from view

>
cakewalk_narrow_strips.PNG
Yeah I had a look last night at Cakewalk. Very feature rich. It does somewhat become a bit cluttered I feel though but looks a very powerful daw and yeah I know most things can be hidden or minimized.

It's how the audio and midi editing capabilities are for me. If it has midi chase, fantastic (I expect it will) and remember last note length in midi would be awesome and all the bog standard features you'd expect and regarding audio, how easy it is to lay a guitar strum pattern down and get it into time. Took ages on Reaper (but didn't know what I was doing lol!) and on Reason (provided Reason is already open) I can have a guitar chord melody in my head, pick up the guitar, get (learn what chords) the chords sorted out then open an audio track, tap the tempo, open a redrum, slap a rock kit on there with a 4 on the floor, enable record and input monitoring and lay the guitar sections down, intro and bridge (as the verses and chorus are often the same chords as the intro) and go into slice edit and tidy it all up moving the transient markers and listening back and it only takes me a few minutes. Certainly less than 10.

Going back to Cakewalk's mixer though (and still really like it's GUI) that mono button on the top left of the icons is called the Mono / Stereo Interleave isn't it. I've included a screenshot. The Help Module (like tool tip) window that I've included a picture of is very useful as well.
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:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

jlgrimes
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
02 Feb 2020
Belltunes wrote:
02 Feb 2020
I’ve used Cakewalk for years. I agree with all the comments so far comparing Reason and Cakewalk. Freezing tracks was a positive addition to Cakewalk along with ripple editing.

I always enjoyed rewiring reason to Cakewalk, but could be problematic. Now I
Have the best of both worlds with the advent of the Reason VST plug-in. I still record in Reason separately as well. It just depends on the project. It’s all good!!
In the 18 months since the software has been acquired, have there been any/many feature updates and bug fixes etc ? Was track freeze and ripple editing done under the new ownership?

It would be interesting to compare how much effort and resources a free DAW business puts into their flagship product compared to Reason Sudios / Propellerhead over the same period. I know that Reaper, at $60 for a licence, is coming out with updates and features all the time, and that's a two-man operation.

Cakewalk has had Freezing since the 2000s. Like around the 2005-2006 timeframe (probably older than that).

Freezing is not a new concept.


Im not sure on how long it had Ripple editing. I believe that is a feature Reaper touted about having (I never use it). But I think Reaper had it ever since it came out (10 years or more).

jlgrimes
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Kalm wrote:
03 Feb 2020
Jackjackdaw wrote:
02 Feb 2020
Things Reason can do that other DAWs cant: Drum sequencer with probability per step. I have not found another DAW with this feature.
Studio One has this in their step sequencer I believe
Studio One allows you to use more than one bar as well.


Reaper has a cruder version of it as well.

jlgrimes
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
01 Feb 2020
Yesterday I decided to take a look at Cakewalk, mostly out of interest, but also with the longer term view of abandoning Reason as a DAW since I don't believe there's ever going to be sufficient attention given to Reason's sequencer shortfalls. It's not something I've considered previously, but change may be a good thing.

EDIT: For those not aware, the Cakewalk DAW is FREE

Is anyone else using Cakewalk ? If so, what are some features that you appreciate that Reason does not have, that make workflow a lot easier ? I'm going to make additions to this thread as I discover stuff.

The obvious USP of Reason is the Rack concept, but with Reason available as a VST, that becomes a non-issue (not that I have R11, and intend to hold out for R12). But as it stands, where I might easily be able to hook up an LFO to a filter knob, there's no immediately obvious way to do this in a more conventional DAW. I would like to say I'll RTFM, but there is no user manual for Cakewalk in it's current state - I will look for an old SONAR manual, as Im sure its mostly the same.

And in Reason's favor, it seems far more straightforward, but maybe that's because I've been using it for 10-15 years.

And Cakewalk has very few built in instruments. It doesn't even appear to have a synthesizer ! And the lack of a Rex-style drum loop plugin is a shame.

Alas, onto Cakewalk's advantages....................
Cakewalk was my first DAW program (well Sonar version 2).

Sonar has always put alot of emphasis on having a solid arrange window and mixer view workflow. There were key commands for most common tasks and stuff could be done quickly. It has a much more advanced grid snapping functionality than Reason would have. It typically looks smoother as well. It had plenty of cool tools and takes the more old school "tool" approach to DAW workflow (which is similar to Reason or even Studio One). Unlike Reason though Sonar's tools were more extensive from what I remember (but its been a long time).

Sonar wasn't really known for having the best piano rolls but they always did try to improve it, so it is probably a good deal more feature rich than Reason. I would think Sonar would make a better program for mixing/recording audio than Reason.

I moved on to different programs though over time though. My biggest issue with Cakewalk was the bugs. The program used could be very unstable at certain times. I installed the free version and it crashes my PC upon start. I think this is because Sonar doesn't like the Focusrite Scarlett interface drivers. That said the Scarlett works fine with every other program. Reason has always been great in terms of Stability.

Reaper is a good alternative to Sonar but its midi side is a little more chaotic (Reapers audio functions are superb), and its stock plugins are very basic compared to what Sonar gives you. Reaper seems to be alot more stable though.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 10 Feb 2020

jlgrimes wrote:
10 Feb 2020
Kalm wrote:
03 Feb 2020


Studio One has this in their step sequencer I believe
Studio One allows you to use more than one bar as well.


Reaper has a cruder version of it as well.
Huh, that's interesting. Is it at by percentage of probability to play a step only? Or does it do more useful things? Nice to see that a daw comes with that functionality built in either way.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

jlgrimes wrote:
10 Feb 2020
My biggest issue with Cakewalk was the bugs.
Since Bandlab took control of Cakewalk, there have been an astronimocal amount of big fixes & feature updates. It's outlined in a 34 page changelog they publish that has thousands of entries since mid 2018. The concensus amongst he original users is that most everything's been finxed.

They also appear to release a new point version every single month. Clearly they are passionate about making it as great as possible. Unlike Propellerhead, who take two years to implement four workflow improvements that are standard in every other DAW for 15 years :roll: Im still wondering WTF Proellerhead do between releases. Cakewalk are SMASHING it out of the park for feature improvements, and it is a free DAW. Reaper deploy weekly updates, and thats a $60 DAW with only two programmers. It seems that the more time that unfolds, Reason fades further and further into redundancy.

I'm glad I've looked into Cakewalk. After R12, Propellerhead can go fuck themselves, I'm done with their lazy ass schilling and a lack of basic functions that one would expect from any DAW (and that probably ARE in any DAW - except for Reason)

Yonatan
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
jlgrimes wrote:
10 Feb 2020
My biggest issue with Cakewalk was the bugs.
Since Bandlab took control of Cakewalk, there have been an astronimocal amount of big fixes & feature updates. It's outlined in a 34 page changelog they publish that has thousands of entries since mid 2018. The concensus amongst he original users is that most everything's been finxed.

They also appear to release a new point version every single month. Clearly they are passionate about making it as great as possible. Unlike Propellerhead, who take two years to implement four workflow improvements that are standard in every other DAW for 15 years :roll: Im still wondering WTF Proellerhead do between releases. Cakewalk are SMASHING it out of the park for feature improvements, and it is a free DAW. Reaper deploy weekly updates, and thats a $60 DAW with only two programmers. It seems that the more time that unfolds, Reason fades further and further into redundancy.

I'm glad I've looked into Cakewalk. After R12, Propellerhead can go fuck themselves, I'm done with their lazy ass schilling and a lack of basic functions that one would expect from any DAW (and that probably ARE in any DAW - except for Reason)
Understand you. Its been half year soon since release of a halfbaked R11, and nothing have been added to the DAW side, just playing catch up with the Rack Plugin.
I really hope that we have to eat up that disappointment soon enough. But it frustrates a bit to see many more dedicated DAWs out there while Reason acts as if only one on the market.

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Proboscis
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Yonatan wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Understand you. Its been half year soon since release of a halfbaked R11, and nothing have been added to the DAW side, just playing catch up with the Rack Plugin.
I really hope that we have to eat up that disappointment soon enough. But it frustrates a bit to see many more dedicated DAWs out there while Reason acts as if only one on the market.
I guess a better way to look at Reason into the future is that it's a really great VST. And if viewed that way, $399 for Reason VST is an INCREDIBLE product. But, it's a lot of money for an amateur to spend. And for existing users like myself, $129 to upgrade is a bit over the top for only two new effects (Quartete & Sweeper) when I already have RE's that can achieve the same or similar. So as I've said earlier, for anyone who wants to move on to another DAW in the absence of dozens of sequencer & console features in Reason, with no indication of them ever fixing stuff, I see the upgrade price as an 'exit tax' to be free forever.

And how that fares for future revenue for them...... I see no compelling argument for anyone ever upgrading again, once they learn another DAW and already have 'Reason VST'.

I do get that users, myself included, prefer to 'stick with what they know', and that's so true for me, because there's a steep learning curve that comes from jumping ship. Right now, if I were to start a Cakewalk project, most of my time is mucking around where in Reason I would be up & running. A lot of little hings like navigating around with shortcut keys, location of settings, the way in which FX are added to a channel, it's all very foreign. Although from the sheer number of features I've uncovered in Cakewalk, and posted here that I would find VERY helpful down the track, it's time that I'm willing to put in.

That said though, Cakewalk probably won't get much real use from me for now, since the best decision on spending money would be to hold out for Reason 12 .

Yonatan
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Yonatan wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Understand you. Its been half year soon since release of a halfbaked R11, and nothing have been added to the DAW side, just playing catch up with the Rack Plugin.
I really hope that we have to eat up that disappointment soon enough. But it frustrates a bit to see many more dedicated DAWs out there while Reason acts as if only one on the market.
I guess a better way to look at Reason into the future is that it's a really great VST. And if viewed that way, $399 for Reason VST is an INCREDIBLE product. But, it's a lot of money for an amateur to spend. And for existing users like myself, $129 to upgrade is a bit over the top for only two new effects (Quartete & Sweeper) when I already have RE's that can achieve the same or similar. So as I've said earlier, for anyone who wants to move on to another DAW in the absence of dozens of sequencer & console features in Reason, with no indication of them ever fixing stuff, I see the upgrade price as an 'exit tax' to be free forever.

And how that fares for future revenue for them...... I see no compelling argument for anyone ever upgrading again, once they learn another DAW and already have 'Reason VST'.

I do get that users, myself included, prefer to 'stick with what they know', and that's so true for me, because there's a steep learning curve that comes from jumping ship. Right now, if I were to start a Cakewalk project, most of my time is mucking around where in Reason I would be up & running. A lot of little hings like navigating around with shortcut keys, location of settings, the way in which FX are added to a channel, it's all very foreign. Although from the sheer number of features I've uncovered in Cakewalk, and posted here that I would find VERY helpful down the track, it's time that I'm willing to put in.

That said though, Cakewalk probably won't get much real use from me for now, since the best decision on spending money would be to hold out for Reason 12 .
Yes, I am in same boat. Am waiting now to see if that "secret" new take on something (that RS wanted ppl in sthlm to try out) is of enough use for me as to upgrade (if that is part of Reason 11) and thus makes me move from R10 finally. Or if there will be a waiting out of the R12, and instead buy some nice RE or VST that fills some gap. Nothing in R11 at release is crucial for me now.

I am on Mac so Cakewalk is not for me, thankfully limits the choices a bit. But Logic I have got and although it has so many more features than Reason in Sequencer etc, I find myself more comfortable working in Reason, but who knows, that could change a tiny bit when finally get the Rack plugin AU, to use the Rack in Logic is something I long for a bit. But even if it will bridge the gap between Reason and Logic, I will certainly still start out and/or finish tracks in Reason, but all depending on what I want or need for that specific song. Ableton Live is also a bit interesting for its stripped down look and live clip section. Great combo with Reason Rack Plugin. So, I very much see the goodness in the Rack plugin and I think it boosts RS confidence quite much. It is much easier for them to move more freely about in the Music Making Community when they have the Rack Plugin to showcase and be in events with other DAWs etc. I think that is a great thing, as long as they do not totally leave Reason to the curb, but rather get themselves a bit of space to take Reason DAW forward without the feeling of being too far behind the other DAWs.
The Rack plugin opens up the whole thing. People never heard of Reason will get to know it via the Rack Plugin.

But, yesterday I checked out differences between Reason Intro, Standard and Suite. And noticed on the check-list that Intro does not come with SSL rack devices, nor with the 2 modulation effects and many other devices are not there, so then it is more of use for someone more intended to buy REs from the shop and use and maybe later update to another fuller version. So Intro is the closest to a Empty Rack plugin as one gets, but still what one gets to that €79 is remarkable! It is a great plugin and honestly can see few producers or music makers who would not at some point go get it. But I could see some are waiting out the development a bit and might also wait for things to mature a bit and make the hit at R12. So I am sure Reason has a winner at hand, even if not all will get it at R11. But in long run, who could not want a Rack plugin like that? Cannot see any reason not to, if not having overly full NI rig and tons of VST, but still, people wont want to let such a thing left untouched. They will get it despite some hesitation. The only gripe is if they want the Standard or Suite, that may cause many to wait.

EdGrip
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Post 12 Feb 2020

If/when the Rack VST can output MIDI, that'll be big for RS. Reason Players as a modular MIDI scaler/chord/arp/generative VST device in other DAWs.

Yonatan
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Post 12 Feb 2020

EdGrip wrote:
12 Feb 2020
If/when the Rack VST can output MIDI, that'll be big for RS. Reason Players as a modular MIDI scaler/chord/arp/generative VST device in other DAWs.
Agree. That will take the Rack Plugin a leap on the way to become unstoppable standard in music production world.

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Creativemind
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Post 14 Feb 2020

Found a great video on hidden plug-ins in Cakewalk.



I particularly like in his first plug-in demonstration, how the de-esser could play just the sibilance it was removing.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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