Robots

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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

When I was younger I thought robots would do the hard work for people. A mistake. It developed completely differently

First and foremost, robots or AI are taking jobs away from educated people and artists. On the contrary, craftsmen are almost irreplaceable.

There's actually no art left that isn't made better by AI, except perhaps expressive dance and wrestling.

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Loque
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Post 29 Jan 2024

Nearly every new technolgy cost jobs in the past... Then there is room for different jobs...

AI is its own art. Same as music with a synth is - some would say, only music with real instruments is music - whatever that means...

AI is the first new technology, that could destroy human kind. No, wait...fire could do that too :-)
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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

I think a career as a wrestler is the safest option and what you should advise children these days. ; )

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 29 Jan 2024

FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
First and foremost, robots or AI are taking jobs away from educated people and artists. On the contrary, craftsmen are almost irreplaceable.
Check out Moravec's paradox: The hard things are easy, the easy things are hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox
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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

By the way: The path from a wrestler to a record deal also seems easier to me than the one through music agencies

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Loque
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Post 29 Jan 2024

FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
I think a career as a wrestler is the safest option and what you should advise children these days. ; )
Yea? Sure?
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 29 Jan 2024

🙄

Are you somehow a timer traveler or something?

Better? Replacing artists and writers? LoL. No.

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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
29 Jan 2024
FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
First and foremost, robots or AI are taking jobs away from educated people and artists. On the contrary, craftsmen are almost irreplaceable.
Check out Moravec's paradox: The hard things are easy, the easy things are hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox


Reminds me of Musashi "The Book of the Five Rings" there was something similar, although I can't find it in the Musashi quotes. Something like “Be meticulous about the little things and decide big things in a moment.”

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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
29 Jan 2024
🙄

Are you somehow a timer traveler or something?

Better? Replacing artists and writers? LoL. No.
This is what I (and not the only one) find visible and logical. Especially with music. Where is there still room for a human idea that hasn't already been repeated hundreds of thousands of times? Slight sound and text changes, other voices, other faces, the AI can do that better and also has a better overview.

If we can analyze the individual elements of a piece and reproduce them in slightly different ways, AI can most likely do it faster and better. And all of the top ten are just slight changes to the same thing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/elijahclar ... l-artists/

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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

And on Top you can't put AI on Court for Copyright infringement.

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Loque
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Post 29 Jan 2024

FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
And on Top you can't put AI on Court for Copyright infringement.
I am sure, as soon as AI understands this, you can.
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crimsonwarlock
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Post 29 Jan 2024

FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
Reminds me of Musashi "The Book of the Five Rings"
Wow, a Musashi reference :thumbup: that's pretty awesome :puf_bigsmile:
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 29 Jan 2024

In what world do you think you can replicate a piece with slight modifications, call it your own and profit from it?

Bots can’t. And why would any artist want to do this?

There are people who run scams, yes. But are you an artist or a scammer? Cause only the latter would consider it a viable path to follow. Bots suck ass at creating art, dawg, there’s just no other way to say it. Insipid, empty, disposable noise.

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FGL
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Post 29 Jan 2024

I am just as much a victim of this development as anyone else. Artists don't steal? Artists with a lot of money can now even steal in such a way that no one notices. Or to put it another way, a fool with enough money can decide to write a hit song tomorrow. Nobody can complain and they even buy their way into the charts to the point where it gets played on the radio. Just remember Milly Vanilly, but there was still a musician behind it, you don't need that anymore.

I'm not even thinking about private individuals, every record label can save a lot of costs this way. And they can do that perfectly with the rights.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 29 Jan 2024

Good luck to you and them. Useless music that will only be played by bots. This “ai” dumbassery is like nfts. People are going to exploit it, suckers are going to fall for it, and eventually it will fizzle out like everything else the tech bros come up with. Scam after scam after scam… 🙄

Have you even heard what the bots “create “? lol off you think that it will be well received by any significant number of people besides suckers 😂

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TritoneAddiction
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Post 29 Jan 2024

FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
There's actually no art left that isn't made better by AI
Sure


PhillipOrdonez
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Post 29 Jan 2024

Also, you seem to think the way the industry has always worked regarding charts and money is the anomaly instead of the rule? There's almost no way an artist that gets charted and in on the radio and everywhere did not spend a ton of money to get there. Did you think that anyone ever made bank off music without paying a looooot of money? But that's how it has always been! 😂

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Quarmat
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Post 29 Jan 2024

FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
First and foremost, robots or AI are taking jobs away from educated people and artists. On the contrary, craftsmen are almost irreplaceable.
A book on how to build a bridge costs less than the bridge. The information in the book on how to build a bridge can be changed, updated, rethought, rewritten dozens of times at a tiny fraction of the cost of the bridge, and the bridge accepts minimal improvements without having to be torn down and rebuilt at enormous cost.


But when bridge 'theory' has reached such a level of precision and reliability that there is no longer any doubt as to how to build the best possible bridge for every occasion, then construction can be automated.
A bridge gives work to one archer and fifty workers.

When the machines build the bridge 50 families go without dinner.

I want to say that it is now the intellectual and 'creative' trades that are under siege by AI, but it is because these trades are immaterial and therefore inexpensive and we always start, for lack of funds and confidence, with the cheap stuff.

But now AI is a certainty: it is there, it is electrifying, and it will never go away.

The marriage of AI and robotics is already underway and it won't be long before autonomous buses, robot plumbers, AI carpenters, etc. will be a reality.

And as soon as the prototypes hit the market, they will lower the 'production' costs of even the craft trades, so ALL jobs will be compromised and we will be forced to rethink the working (and economic) world from the ground up.

Many tears will be shed but a powerful tool is better than a less powerful tool, and I am confident for our medium- to long-term future with AI.

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selig
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Post 29 Jan 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
29 Jan 2024
FGL wrote:
29 Jan 2024
First and foremost, robots or AI are taking jobs away from educated people and artists. On the contrary, craftsmen are almost irreplaceable.
Check out Moravec's paradox: The hard things are easy, the easy things are hard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox
I remember being fascinated by this concept years ago, that the things we thought would be difficult (robots/computers playing chess) ended up being fairly easy, while the basic concepts like lifting a glass to our lips is still difficult for robots.
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selig
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Post 29 Jan 2024

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
29 Jan 2024
Good luck to you and them. Useless music that will only be played by bots. This “ai” dumbassery is like nfts. People are going to exploit it, suckers are going to fall for it, and eventually it will fizzle out like everything else the tech bros come up with. Scam after scam after scam… 🙄

Have you even heard what the bots “create “? lol off you think that it will be well received by any significant number of people besides suckers 😂
I feel like AI has quite a few more applications than NFTs - or maybe comparing AI to block chain would be a better comparison, since AI is tech and NFTs are specific applications of tech (block chain).

As for AI and to those asking what is the use, I would just quote Franklin and say “ what is the use of a new born baby?”.
Selig Audio, LLC

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bxbrkrz
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Post 29 Jan 2024

Image

:puf_smile:
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Bes
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Post 29 Jan 2024

ReasonTalk forum AI when?
- Certified Reason expert

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aeox
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Post 30 Jan 2024

As far as i've heard, AI can only regurgitate music it has trained on

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Quarmat
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Post 30 Jan 2024

aeox wrote:
30 Jan 2024
As far as i've heard, AI can only regurgitate music it has trained on
Just as we do and have always done as humans. We have imitated the sounds of nature, built instruments to approximate those sounds (failing miserably) but with these imperfect instruments we have created novel sounds that we have fallen in love with. Schools and traditions were formed, each with its own instruments and its own canons, in which essentially the same corpus was repeated and replayed with minimal variations. Then separate traditions came together, some disappeared forever, others became so majority that they appeared to be the only "right" ones, but it was always a remixing of existing stuff, making admixtures, contaminations, mash-ups. Everything AI already does with the stuff we've produced. Obviously, by design, AI tries to be in the Gaussian ridge, so it comes up with stuff that quantitatively looks more "appreciable," but it is perfectly at the occorence of even the most extreme and niche bangs of human music production, if those are online.

The only difference is that AI does not catch happy accidents without a human pointing them out. To it, one track is as good as the next. Without human taste, AI is nothing but the summation of everything, with no hierarchy, no history with no criteria other than the "sense" that the concentration of data gives.

AI has no taste -- for now.

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selig
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Post 30 Jan 2024

aeox wrote:
30 Jan 2024
As far as i've heard, AI can only regurgitate music it has trained on
Same as me, FWIW! ;)
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