Combinator 2 and remote maps (hardware fun)

[MixerJaexx]

So, what do we know so far regarding the Combinator 2 and remote mapping? How's it work with universal controllers like the Panorama P1 or the Ableton Push? Lotta' people here beta testing for a few weeks, what insight you got for us?

[rorystorm]

Just been having a play with this as I had the same question for my novation launchcontrol. I'm guessing you want to create a combinator that mimics your controller to act as a standard interface and then save the patch and re use it? AFAIK remote mapping doesn't save with the patch - happy for someone to correct me.

What I'd suggest is, once you've made it save it as part of your basic song template which should preserve the remote mapping. Then use it at will.

Also you can copy the remote mapping information from one device to another if you're using multiple instances. It took me a minute to remember how to do this - it's in the Remote Edit Override Mode under Options - right click on the device you're copying from and then paste into the second device. It'll move the remote map from one to another, but you'll need to copy backwards and forwards between devices as it only works for one at a time.... a bit fiddly but that's the nature of workarounds, right?

Hope that's useful and again, happy if there's a better way....

[QVprod]

They react to the first 4 buttons and knobs according to the order of however the Combi was designed. Old Combi patches work the same and the newer ones with minimal controls will probably work similar. Nektar would have to create a new remote map for the updated Combi, however I think It's impossible to truly map the new Combi properly given the amount of variety in patches. Patch designers can add controls in any order so simply listing 'knob '1, 'knob 2'...etc... will likely not give desired results.

The grab function doesn't work, but learn mode does work in Nekarine. Needless to say however, just like the old combinator, the names of the controls do not show on the controller. So mapping is pretty much pointless outside of quick adjustments unless Remote is updated to be able to transfer the combinator control names to a device.

Ableton Push and just about every other controller will probably function the same way.

[MixerJaexx]

Also you can copy the remote mapping information from one device to another if you're using multiple instances.

Yo, that's good advice. The new combinator may have multiple remote map ID's beyond the original four. Haven't had time to test it. But if not, this suggestion isn't bad. My thinking was to create a standard method of creating combinators that matched the layout of my custom Panorama P1. If that doesn't work, Roy Storm's process is a good plan B.

Patch designers can add controls in any order so simply listing 'knob '1, 'knob 2'...etc... will likely not give desired results.

Yeah, it's a funny thing. An easy fix on Reason Studio's part is to give, in the Combinator editor, an "order" number. Simple little "Order: 01" type of drop down (similar to how you can change a button type). For a knob / faders, you can choose 1 to 32 and buttons 1 to 32. Then enable the remote system to map those faders / knobs. Someone like myself could then create the remote map for it. If I'm remembering correctly, I can even create different layouts within the hardware to load virtual "scenes" within the same remote map, so that the first scene a Panorama P1's rotaries control knobs / faders, while another scene the faders of the Panorama P1 control the first set of knobs / faders. Then it'd just be on the Combinator patch creator to choose the order they want a hardware controller to control things (and it'd be easy enough to change the order in the Combinator patch itself).

[MixerJaexx]

Decided to test it out; Reason Studios added the remote map ID's to support additional controls of the Combinator 2. ...Like, thank you, Reason Studios person who implemented this.

Took a quick photo from my iPhone, but you can see one of my Combinator v1 devices where I grafted on a fifth button. I added a fifth button to my Panorama P1 remote map. I'm able to control it and it shows up on the P1's screen (that's drywall crud on the screen, not scratches, been doing upgrades in my studio room). "Test1" is just so I would know a current map loaded up.

So, yo... Awesome news, then. It seems like we got FULL control the new Combinator. Gonna' check into how things are ordered.

[loopeydoug]

Now that I have my coveted Combinator 2, my next eternal wish will be a total overhaul of Remote implementation. One that goes as far as having it's own dedicated application, complete with an easily programmable UI for us folks whose eyes glaze over at the prospect of having to do it in the context of a text file.

[loopeydoug]

Now that I have my coveted Combinator 2, my next eternal wish will be a total overhaul of Remote implementation. One that goes as far as having it's own dedicated application, complete with an easily programmable UI for us folks whose eyes glaze over at the prospect of having to do it in the context of a text file.

[MixerJaexx]

One that goes as far as having it's own dedicated application, complete with an easily programmable UI...

Ooo, excellent. Likely won't happen, but tha'd be so cool if they did that.

[MixerJaexx]

Since I doubt anyone's done it, I went through and tested to make sure all 32 knob / fader and 32 buttons are actually mapped correctly in the Remote system; they are.

On the order front (how will a Combinator creator decide which knob / fader or button is mapped first), there seems to be no way of changing things after the elements been created in the Combinator.

I think it's supposed to, you drag the order in the "Panel Element" list. But I think someone forgot to code that function in (seems odd to add the ability to re-order things if not for hardware).

[QVprod]

Patch designers can add controls in any order so simply listing 'knob '1, 'knob 2'...etc... will likely not give desired results.

Yeah, it's a funny thing. An easy fix on Reason Studio's part is to give, in the Combinator editor, an "order" number. Simple little "Order: 01" type of drop down (similar to how you can change a button type). For a knob / faders, you can choose 1 to 32 and buttons 1 to 32. Then enable the remote system to map those faders / knobs. Someone like myself could then create the remote map for it. If I'm remembering correctly, I can even create different layouts within the hardware to load virtual "scenes" within the same remote map, so that the first scene a Panorama P1's rotaries control knobs / faders, while another scene the faders of the Panorama P1 control the first set of knobs / faders. Then it'd just be on the Combinator patch creator to choose the order they want a hardware controller to control things (and it'd be easy enough to change the order in the Combinator patch itself).

I’d much rather it be that remote can read names and then allow mapping on a per patch basis so that the parameters are easily selectable. Speaking from experience, patch making and assigning controls is tedious enough without thinking about how we want a controller to work with the patch too. If making a combi for a specific controller as you mentioned, then that’s one thing, but for just general instrument or fx patches… that’s a bit much imho. I can’t imagine my fellow R+ pack creators wanting to add that to their to do list amongst the things that are already present.

Otherwise, what you suggest is already technically possible by simply adding the controls in the desired order from the jump. I doubt creators are doing so with hardware in mind though. I definitely wasn’t.

[MixerJaexx]

Otherwise, what you suggest is already technically possible by simply adding the controls in the desired order from the jump.

Yeah, and to play devil's advocate to myself, redoing the order of controls in the current Combinator 2 is super hard once you've got somethin' complex goin' on. I'm sure this "missing order" issue is an oversight (or more of a "not enough time" issue). Trying to plan out your patch's layout and controls, in advanced, seems super hard. Imagine having a full-fledged synth layout, complete with ASDR envelope controls... and you decide to add on an envelope hold at the last minute (AHDSR), you'd have to delete all controls of the Combinator in the order after your envelope to re-add them (all, not just the envelope controls).

Yeah, has to be an oversight. Way too much work on patch creators.

I have a strong feeling that, when they mentioned they were going to continue adding things to the Combinator, that custom name remote parameter display is one of them. In fact, I bet you that was actually intended for the current build but time ran out (much like note detection was intended for Mimic's debut).

Of all the cool things that may be on people's wish lists to be added to the Combinator 2, I feel parameter order (or custom parameter label display) should be one of the first things updated. My argument for it is that they included remote support (awesome) but it's hobbled without this matching puzzle piece.

[rorystorm]

Just been having a play with this as I had the same question for my novation launchcontrol. I'm guessing you want to create a combinator that mimics your controller to act as a standard interface and then save the patch and re use it? AFAIK remote mapping doesn't save with the patch - happy for someone to correct me.

What I'd suggest is, once you've made it save it as part of your basic song template which should preserve the remote mapping. Then use it at will.

Also you can copy the remote mapping information from one device to another if you're using multiple instances. It took me a minute to remember how to do this - it's in the Remote Edit Override Mode under Options - right click on the device you're copying from and then paste into the second device. It'll move the remote map from one to another, but you'll need to copy backwards and forwards between devices as it only works for one at a time.... a bit fiddly but that's the nature of workarounds, right?

Hope that's useful and again, happy if there's a better way....

apologies, just to say on playing around with this a bit more it doesn't work - if you include the combinator you've set remote mapping for in remote override mode it - as the name says - overrides any remote mapping you may have done the codecs for for other devices. My bad, I didn't think this through.

[electrofux]

You can technically do a hardcoded per patch mapping within the codec (the lua file). But that is a alot of programming work and probably not easily doable on an existing codec. Reason can send the patchname to the codec and this then can decide on the patchname how things are mapped. But as said this needs dedicated routines in the codec in a few corners.

[joeyluck]

On the order front (how will a Combinator creator decide which knob / fader or button is mapped first), there seems to be no way of changing things after the elements been created in the Combinator.

I think it's supposed to, you drag the order in the "Panel Element" list.

(With permission given to answer this ) You are correct! I guess this goes to show that the interface is intuitive, but still a work in progress. There is an update currently in the works and being tested that addresses some Remote related things, such as adding back Remote functionality to mixer insert controls (to point those mappings to Rotary 1-4 and Button 1-4 of the first Combi). And this reordering of the Panel Element list is another thing that is a part of that update. So precisely as you figured, when you reorder that list it will map those remoteables in that order for Rotary 1-32 and Button 1-32

[Kypresso]

A couple of fantastic new combinators here.

https://turn2on.com/combinators/

[MixerJaexx]

There is an update currently in the works and being tested that addresses some Remote related things

Oh, right on. Thanks for clarifying this. This will help people like me decide how to go forward regarding universal controllers and the new Combinator.

[MixerJaexx]

A couple of fantastic new combinators here.

https://turn2on.com/combinators/

I see, these are Combinator's for controlling external synth hardware. Very cool. Just like people were saying they were going to do and now we finally get to see what they look like in action.

[joeyluck]

A couple of fantastic new combinators here.

https://turn2on.com/combinators/

I see, these are Combinator's for controlling external synth hardware. Very cool. Just like people were saying they were going to do and now we finally get to see what they look like in action.

These have also been shared in our new subforum here, along with many other very creations viewforum.php?f=69

[mtbh]

Since I doubt anyone's done it, I went through and tested to make sure all 32 knob / fader and 32 buttons are actually mapped correctly in the Remote system; they are.

Thanx for the info, I was able to update my remotemap . I was puzzled for a moment but now it is working as it should. I am on Novation, with the automap as well, which I also had to update besides the remotemap.

[Catblack]

I made a post earlier today in another thread about some of the same issues mentioned in this thread. I looked into the Remote Info for the new combi the second I could. It's the most important device in the rack and they've -- again -- not included the TextOutput for the labels!

Also the knob/button creation order is going to hang a lot of people up. It's like Reason Studios didn't think it through all the way.

[MixerJaexx]

These have also been shared in our new subforum here, along with many other very creations viewforum.php?f=69

Thanks. I forgot about that, browsin' it now (Ryan's combinator assets come at a perfect time).

[MixerJaexx]

they've -- again -- not included the TextOutput for the labels!

Yeah, you know what I hope? I hope they don't just start supporting text labels but instead add two entries; the object's "name" and the object's "label". The name is what would appear technically. It would appear in tool tips, in dialogue menus and most importantly in hardware controllers. The "label" entry would be for the text that's displayed near the Combinator.

Here's the scenario; if you have a knob that says "Channel 1 LFO Speed", under it can be a button to turn the LFO on labeled "On". Since the button's right under the knob, it's self explanatory. However, in the hardware, you need to know what the button does, "On" doesn't help if there's 8 different buttons named "On". This is where, instead of the object's label "On" being displayed, the object's name "LFO1 On" would be displayed.

Without doing that, we'd have to decide if we wanted to make ours layouts visual-friendly or technical-friendly.

[joeyluck]

they've -- again -- not included the TextOutput for the labels!

Yeah, you know what I hope? I hope they don't just start supporting text labels but instead add two entries; the object's "name" and the object's "label". The name is what would appear technically. It would appear in tool tips, in dialogue menus and most importantly in hardware controllers. The "label" entry would be for the text that's displayed near the Combinator.

Here's the scenario; if you have a knob that says "Channel 1 LFO Speed", under it can be a button to turn the LFO on labeled "On". Since the button's right under the knob, it's self explanatory. However, in the hardware, you need to know what the button does, "On" doesn't help if there's 8 different buttons named "On". This is where, instead of the object's label "On" being displayed, the object's name "LFO1 On" would be displayed.

Without doing that, we'd have to decide if we wanted to make ours layouts visual-friendly or technical-friendly.

For situations like this, I just built my labels into the backdrop:

viewtopic.php?p=570224#p570224

[lychee]

Hello.

The Combinator in its old version never made me interested in the possibility of hardware control.
But with the new one which is customizable to our desires, it stimulates my interest, but I still have a question:
Does version 12 of Reason finally manage midi learn?
Because being new in the game, I understood that the 11 did not manage it, and this kind of tool would be very useful in the case of the control of an external material.

[MixerJaexx]

For situations like this, I just built my labels into the backdrop:

True, that’s what I’m planning on doing… It slows down the process, of course, but you can’t argue with the results now that high resolution is supported.