Problem with a feedback loop patch using The Echo, AP-12 and Selig Gain

[Stygian Abyss]

Hi all, I'm trying to create an effect patch in Reason 10 using an external feedback loop with The Echo, because I want the dry signal to go through the AP-12 phaser, then into the delay, then back into the phaser, and so on; I know there's an insert point in the feedback loop of The Echo, but it doesn't seem to affect the dry signal, so this external feedback loop is needed for what I want. I use several Selig Gain to control volume.

The combi patch in the attached zip file gives me very weird results: the plucky sound I used as a test is almost instantly repeated, which is completely abnormal and unwanted, and then comes the normal delay. And this also happens even if the feedback, delay input and output Selig Gains are at -∞, bypassed or off ! This fast repetition only disappears if I unplug the feedback loop.

I absolutely don't understand what's happening and hope some people here will help me. Thanks in advance.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

I don't have the AP-12 however it seams to be working OK at my end without it.. So is that doing something you don't know about?

[selig]

Do you have the dry/wet on The Echo fully wet? If not, this would explain what you're describing. If so, I got nothing…

[Stygian Abyss]

Carly and Giles, many thanks for your help. The problem happens in the exact state the combi patch is saved, if I play one note using the Europa synth inside, it is almost instantly repeated, like in a drum fill, and then, 1/2 bar after comes the normal delay sound from The Echo without any fast repeat. If there is lots of feedback, this fast repeat causes a complete sound mess that makes the problem obvious, it may not be that noticeable without it.

Of course, AP-12 and The Echo are both 100% wet, the effects are off on Europa, and the problem remains if AP-12 is bypassed. I vaguely remember having read something about a bug in Spider audio once, so I'm going to rebuild this patch from scratch using Jiggery-Pokery's spiders to see if it works better.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

There was this issue with the Audio Spider.. https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/spider- ... ug-reason/

FYI: From loading your patch, I play a note, I hear that note and 1/2 bar later I get one repeat and that is it, tried on both Reason 10 & 11.. Replaced the AP-12 (as I don't have it) with the Stock Phaser, same results as in no issues.

[Loque]

I speculate that there are just several delays close to each other after playing a few notes. And this in a feedback loop can result in, well, more notes and sounds in the feedback loop. And with a high gain feedback loop it becomes a continuous tone, which is often a wanted feedback sound.

Add a limiter at the sound chain end and some fx like modulated filter sweep within the loop, and you get a cool new sound.

Did not had the time to check your patch yet, but to me it sounds you just have a, yea right, a feedback loop sound.