Malstrom? Malstrom's been there since Reason 2.
Announcing Reason 11
- Creativemind
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- Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
- Creativemind
- Posts: 4875
- Joined: 17 Jan 2015
- Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
fretshot7 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019Awesome tune!Creativemind wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019
Rhubarb & Custard let fly with their secret weapon. Great cartoon, great tune.
Last edited by Creativemind on 27 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
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Regarding the list of improvements since Reason 8, I'd say an upgrade for users of anything less than 10 will see huge value in this upgrade and even the suite is a wicked deal if you don't have any of those instruments. But for people like me on 10.4 this update is a pretty easy pass. It will be interesting to see what direction the company goes in, but as one user said "at least we can take our belongings with us when we leave the ship." The major threshold for my upgrade from 10 to 11 is the UI overhaul. If Reason 11 eventually allows me to use the rack as a zoomable hi res plugin per track I'd upgrade immediately. In fact it would be nice to have a separate rack window per track without having to navigate around a massive modular window. Anyone else think that would be a good compromise?
I’m excited for this! There are times when using Studio One, that I miss access to my Reason instruments (both stock and RE). Having Komplete and a slew of other plugins is great but Reason just feels at home. Having those instruments without having to deal with Rewire downsides (like maintaining 2 different files.) will be awesome. Also great, once the AU version is done, I can use Reason instruments in Mainstage for performing live.
This also seems to sum up what all the running REs on the web, and ELK was at least partially about. Then Europa by Reason as the first VST. Propellerhead... now Reason Studios is innovating. They’ve always been about creating their own lane instead of trying to directly compete in a feature war with everyone else. Even when Record came out, they corrected people when it was called a “DAW”. It was a way to get audio alongside Reason because who wanted to Rewire or bounce tracks simply to add audio to a song?
Now I don’t see this making a huge boom for RE at this point, but it does make the RE format a bit more attractive to buy from. There’s no longer the “I can only use them in Reason so they’re less valuable than VSTs” argument. Also if the modularity of Reason Rack gets enough appeal, There’s a slight chance more developers may even be interested in the same way they’re interested in VCV rack. It’s a modular platform in the midst of a rise of other modular platforms. And quite honestly, will compete fairly nicely with other plugin packages like Omnisphere, Komplete, V Collection, and SampleTank considering it also has a sequencer. Reason was always a rack first and being that updates have seemed to prioritize rack devices over DAW improvements, proves that. I think the amount of people who made Reason their main DAW after version 6 is a smaller part of the general user base.
The thing that confuses me though, is this solves so many issues for people who had issues with Reason’s DAW progress. People who wanted an Ableton Live workflow can now have one, without waiting for Reason to adapt it. Reason’s sequencer not good enough? No problem! Use a DAW that has all the features you need while still having Reason device chains inside one song file. Other criticism of Propellerhead not being “Reason focused”? Well now Propellerhead has changed their name to reflect their primary and pretty much only product they sell.
I do understand though, for a Reason only user perspective, this update doesn’t offer much, but the ones who seem to have the most problems with that want features from other DAWs. Nonetheless, the Reason rack plugin is a one time sell. It’s not like they have to do much more than bug fixes going forward, so it’s not like the plugin becomes the main thing. It just gets new device or any feature that trickle from the standalone version. Core DAW features is clearly the only other big thing for Reason Studios to work on.
This also seems to sum up what all the running REs on the web, and ELK was at least partially about. Then Europa by Reason as the first VST. Propellerhead... now Reason Studios is innovating. They’ve always been about creating their own lane instead of trying to directly compete in a feature war with everyone else. Even when Record came out, they corrected people when it was called a “DAW”. It was a way to get audio alongside Reason because who wanted to Rewire or bounce tracks simply to add audio to a song?
Now I don’t see this making a huge boom for RE at this point, but it does make the RE format a bit more attractive to buy from. There’s no longer the “I can only use them in Reason so they’re less valuable than VSTs” argument. Also if the modularity of Reason Rack gets enough appeal, There’s a slight chance more developers may even be interested in the same way they’re interested in VCV rack. It’s a modular platform in the midst of a rise of other modular platforms. And quite honestly, will compete fairly nicely with other plugin packages like Omnisphere, Komplete, V Collection, and SampleTank considering it also has a sequencer. Reason was always a rack first and being that updates have seemed to prioritize rack devices over DAW improvements, proves that. I think the amount of people who made Reason their main DAW after version 6 is a smaller part of the general user base.
The thing that confuses me though, is this solves so many issues for people who had issues with Reason’s DAW progress. People who wanted an Ableton Live workflow can now have one, without waiting for Reason to adapt it. Reason’s sequencer not good enough? No problem! Use a DAW that has all the features you need while still having Reason device chains inside one song file. Other criticism of Propellerhead not being “Reason focused”? Well now Propellerhead has changed their name to reflect their primary and pretty much only product they sell.
I do understand though, for a Reason only user perspective, this update doesn’t offer much, but the ones who seem to have the most problems with that want features from other DAWs. Nonetheless, the Reason rack plugin is a one time sell. It’s not like they have to do much more than bug fixes going forward, so it’s not like the plugin becomes the main thing. It just gets new device or any feature that trickle from the standalone version. Core DAW features is clearly the only other big thing for Reason Studios to work on.
- Creativemind
- Posts: 4875
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- Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
Haha! changed the video now as that didn't play.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
That's a really interesting point and I think you are right. I've often wondered how many active Reason users there are that are still on old versions. Of course, Props have those numbers to hand. If half your users did not upgrade to 10 then it makes sense to target those folks, because many of those on 10 will upgrade to 11 automatically.
I upgraded from 9 .5 to 10.4 yesterday, just to get version 10 "locked in" before the free upgrade to 11 (and to get my hands on Europa VST before it goes). So their strategy worked in tempting me.
I stopped using Reason entirely at some point after 6.5.3. Malstrom is THE synth I missed the most of all while not using Reason. It’s also the one Reason synth I’d love to see Props turn into a full fledged hardware Eurorack module.
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So I am totally confused about what is going on since yesterday.
I just bought R10 this year. What the upgrade of R11 means to me and other noobs like me? Does it mean that Reason as DAW will not be the same as R10 and older versions?
You know what I mean?
Besides the functionalities that we requested what is all the fuzz about R11 and why people are complaining? To be honest I have no clue what is going on. I left FL Studio cause I loved the concept on Reason, a very interesting DAW, Akai looking (cause I have an MPC5000 and MPK61 Midi keyboard), and the hardware interface is really similar to Reason.
Now how they announced the R11 upgrade sounded like they revamped the whole Reason DAW into something that people does not want or not practical anymore. Am I getting this wrong? Ok Reason can be played as a VST in other DAW's, does this mean that in R12 we will be able to play other DAWs as vst in Reason?
I don't want to be a VST product, I just purchased this to be a standalone normal DAW which could compete with others . Wtf? Someone explain the loud voices here on the forum?
I just bought R10 this year. What the upgrade of R11 means to me and other noobs like me? Does it mean that Reason as DAW will not be the same as R10 and older versions?
You know what I mean?
Besides the functionalities that we requested what is all the fuzz about R11 and why people are complaining? To be honest I have no clue what is going on. I left FL Studio cause I loved the concept on Reason, a very interesting DAW, Akai looking (cause I have an MPC5000 and MPK61 Midi keyboard), and the hardware interface is really similar to Reason.
Now how they announced the R11 upgrade sounded like they revamped the whole Reason DAW into something that people does not want or not practical anymore. Am I getting this wrong? Ok Reason can be played as a VST in other DAW's, does this mean that in R12 we will be able to play other DAWs as vst in Reason?
I don't want to be a VST product, I just purchased this to be a standalone normal DAW which could compete with others . Wtf? Someone explain the loud voices here on the forum?
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- Location: NJ USA
This looks like it will get me to finally upgrade from Reason 8. Much tanks to the developers for nuking Rewire - that's always been a problem for me with Pro Tools 11.3.2 and now PT 2019.6. HUGE problem: I know it's been mentioned that vst3 will be first and then au later in 2019. Is aax64 even on the radar and when might that happens? Without that we'd have to host Reason 11 inside Blue Cat Patchworks synth version.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!
R11 will do everything that R10 does and a little bit more (except Rewire which becomes ReTired). On top of that is the ability to run the Reason rack in any VST3 host DAW (just the rack, not the sequence or mixer).
The complaining is because if you ignore the Reason rack VST there is not much left in the upgrade, but it is still an upgrade.
Then there is the other complaining about the more expensive Suite package and the rebranding from Propellerheads to Reason Studios.
Your R10 is good and will remain so. The world is still turning.
If you bought R10 since the 1st August you get a free upgrade to R11. If not then the best advice is probably to wait to see what R11.1, and beyond hold.
The complaining is because if you ignore the Reason rack VST there is not much left in the upgrade, but it is still an upgrade.
Then there is the other complaining about the more expensive Suite package and the rebranding from Propellerheads to Reason Studios.
Your R10 is good and will remain so. The world is still turning.
If you bought R10 since the 1st August you get a free upgrade to R11. If not then the best advice is probably to wait to see what R11.1, and beyond hold.
I'd wait to see if someone gets that to work before you upgrade!musicman691 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019Without that we'd have to host Reason 11 inside Blue Cat Patchworks synth version.
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Ain't that the truth especially given the price I see. Then again they may not have worked up upgrade prices for those of us that own previous versions of Reason. I just popped $300 for PT 2019.6 so I' not exactly flush with funds right now.boingy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019I'd wait to see if someone gets that to work before you upgrade!musicman691 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019Without that we'd have to host Reason 11 inside Blue Cat Patchworks synth version.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!
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- Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Reason 11 looks like it'll be real nice...as far as it goes. Rewire is going bye bye. And, you STILL will NOT be able to host VSTs in the Reason rack if you are using it in VST mode in another DAW. This is one of the features we've asked for repeatedly. That's really a shame. If they would just allow that to happen it would make Reason the most powerful VI on the planet...bar none. Because in effect it can be ALL VI's at once, with their rack set up. I keeping hoping they will do this. I don't understand why they don't.
It will, of course, host any RE's as usual.
I'm also hoping that they will come out with an AAX version for all of us who use Pro Tools as our main DAW. There are thousands of us on the planet!
To use this in Pro Tools, you will have to host Reason 11 in another VST host, such as Blue Cat Audio Patchwork. This will present some confusing routing issues when it comes to assigning audio outputs from the rack, as you will have to route a rack VI to a Patchwork audio out and then that to something in Pro Tools. An AAX version would solve all of that! So, I hope that's in the works here. Like Reason 11.1
No mention of any MIDI updates/upgrades either.
So for now, I'm keeping 9.5. When they come with AAX, then I'll upgrade
It will, of course, host any RE's as usual.
I'm also hoping that they will come out with an AAX version for all of us who use Pro Tools as our main DAW. There are thousands of us on the planet!
To use this in Pro Tools, you will have to host Reason 11 in another VST host, such as Blue Cat Audio Patchwork. This will present some confusing routing issues when it comes to assigning audio outputs from the rack, as you will have to route a rack VI to a Patchwork audio out and then that to something in Pro Tools. An AAX version would solve all of that! So, I hope that's in the works here. Like Reason 11.1
No mention of any MIDI updates/upgrades either.
So for now, I'm keeping 9.5. When they come with AAX, then I'll upgrade
Molotovbeatz wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019So I am totally confused about what is going on since yesterday.
I just bought R10 this year. What the upgrade of R11 means to me and other noobs like me? Does it mean that Reason as DAW will not be the same as R10 and older versions?
You know what I mean?
Besides the functionalities that we requested what is all the fuzz about R11 and why people are complaining? To be honest I have no clue what is going on. I left FL Studio cause I loved the concept on Reason, a very interesting DAW, Akai looking (cause I have an MPC5000 and MPK61 Midi keyboard), and the hardware interface is really similar to Reason.
Now how they announced the R11 upgrade sounded like they revamped the whole Reason DAW into something that people does not want or not practical anymore. Am I getting this wrong? Ok Reason can be played as a VST in other DAW's, does this mean that in R12 we will be able to play other DAWs as vst in Reason?
I don't want to be a VST product, I just purchased this to be a standalone normal DAW which could compete with others . Wtf? Someone explain the loud voices here on the forum?
You have it all wrong....it’s still just like reason 10, you will use it just like you have been...but now you will have the options to use all the reason racks in other DAWS if you choose
- Reasonable man
- Posts: 589
- Joined: 14 Jul 2016
This is the problem i have with it and now that everyone is acting like they just happened to 'know' this all along and alot of other people coming out of the woodwork to inform us that Reason is only their secondary daw anyway and then even more people who tell us now that they dont really care and its not a big deal cause music is really just a pastime or a hobby for them anyway.QVprod wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019They’ve always been about creating their own lane instead of trying to directly compete in a feature war with everyone else. Even when Record came out, they corrected people when it was called a “DAW”. It was a way to get audio alongside Reason because who wanted to Rewire or bounce tracks simply to add audio to a song?
I think was one of the few mugs who actually took it seriously . I havn't been using Reason for the last 12-15 years ..i bought reason 8 then 10 . I was told it was a DAW not a fake imitation of one or someting that the company were going to just 'pack in 'when things got tough for some vst device instead (that i have zero interest in) .....and although they havn't said it ..he whole thing almost feels like a DAW exit strategy... maybe a 2 -3 year one.
Alarm bells did start ringing when someone (maybe hydlide) mentioned they have a staff of about 30 people! (or something ridiculous like that) no wonder they're lagging behind and have been lagging behind for some time. It kinda leaves you thinking that reason has been one big expensive mistake
Interesting discussions on the 11 announcement. I’ve had to start using Logic alongside Reason for the last few years. Some aspects of one sequencer are better than the other. It totally depends on what you want, but you should be forced off one to the other.
It’s good for the company to have Reason as a plug-in, but that’s not great for existing users. Having that as a paid upgrade and removing what was a benefit of upgrading to 10 (europa as a plug-in) seems a bit odd. I get you don’t need Europa as a plug-in anymore, but it still comes across a bit flat.
But what surprised me the most was nothing at all about mobile. They’ve launched a useable Reason Compact. They’ve revived Figure and Take. They added compatibility of Compact into v10. The video announcing the new company name and branding even had the Compact style minimalist rack. Where is this heading, I wonder? Reason can’t compete with every DAW out there. But it can totally compete on the instruments/ideas/inspiration/creativity side, far more than most DAWs, which are a bit dry. Getting that spark onto mobile in a more sophisticated way could be unbeatable.
Meanwhile, if they could just put the Figure bass and lead synths plus rotating sequencer functionality into Compact, I’d be mega happy. They can put all the other amazing Reason instruments and fx in later!
It’s good for the company to have Reason as a plug-in, but that’s not great for existing users. Having that as a paid upgrade and removing what was a benefit of upgrading to 10 (europa as a plug-in) seems a bit odd. I get you don’t need Europa as a plug-in anymore, but it still comes across a bit flat.
But what surprised me the most was nothing at all about mobile. They’ve launched a useable Reason Compact. They’ve revived Figure and Take. They added compatibility of Compact into v10. The video announcing the new company name and branding even had the Compact style minimalist rack. Where is this heading, I wonder? Reason can’t compete with every DAW out there. But it can totally compete on the instruments/ideas/inspiration/creativity side, far more than most DAWs, which are a bit dry. Getting that spark onto mobile in a more sophisticated way could be unbeatable.
Meanwhile, if they could just put the Figure bass and lead synths plus rotating sequencer functionality into Compact, I’d be mega happy. They can put all the other amazing Reason instruments and fx in later!
- Last Alternative
- Posts: 1343
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RIGHT? I am SOOO glad I didn't buy Balance back then. I was all about it and so close tho when I was researching interfaces. I ended up Thanx to God, with a Focusrite and then/now UA Apollo twin. Had I got the Balance, I'd be FUKT IN THE A$$ by Propellerhead once again
I can't even remember the last time I bought an RE. Haven't spent a penny to PH since R10. I'm literally backing out and I guess have been for a while. But as we all know, it's not easy transferring our music files to another DAW so it's gonna be a long process of that, as well as familiarizing to a new software. But PH made their decision to give us the finger and I'm done being oblivious to it.
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
12.7.4 | MacBook Pro (16”, 2021), OS Sonoma, M1 Max, 4TB SSD, 64GB RAM | quality instruments & gear
12.7.4 | MacBook Pro (16”, 2021), OS Sonoma, M1 Max, 4TB SSD, 64GB RAM | quality instruments & gear
- Creativemind
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- Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK
So has it been definitely confirmed that Rewiring Reason into another daw will not be available after 11?
What about Rewire in general, say Logic into FL Studio? just tryna clarify.
What about Rewire in general, say Logic into FL Studio? just tryna clarify.
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
- fieldframe
- RE Developer
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I've been on the "odd number upgrade cycle" since version 7, though there is one thing I didn't like about the most recent cycle. Reason 9.5 was not compatible with the most recent version of MacOS, and it left a bad taste in my mouth that Propellerhead stopped supporting a version of Reason only a little over a year after they stopped selling it.boingy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019That's a really interesting point and I think you are right. I've often wondered how many active Reason users there are that are still on old versions. Of course, Props have those numbers to hand. If half your users did not upgrade to 10 then it makes sense to target those folks, because many of those on 10 will upgrade to 11 automatically.
I upgraded from 9 .5 to 10.4 yesterday, just to get version 10 "locked in" before the free upgrade to 11 (and to get my hands on Europa VST before it goes). So their strategy worked in tempting me.
Hopefully that was a one-off case, though, given Reason's engine rewrite in 10.3, and 11 will continue to work just fine if I keep using it until Reason 13.
- fieldframe
- RE Developer
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Yes, it's on the FAQ page: https://www.propellerheads.com/en/reaso ... -daw-hostsCreativemind wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019So has it been definitely confirmed that Rewiring Reason into another daw will not be available after 11?
What about Rewire in general, say Logic into FL Studio? just tryna clarify.
Rewire support in other software is up to each individual vendor whether they want to discontinue support for it now that it's no longer maintained. I mean, it's not going to magically stop working everywhere else when Reason 11 comes out.
- artmessiah
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Sums up everything I feel nicely. I don't care how anyone spins this, for those like myself that like to use only reason this release sucks. I am excited for everyone else that has either moved on from reason to other DAWs and can now come back home so to speak or have never had a reason to use Reason and can now get hooked like the rest of us. I know the VST hackers and pirates are salivating at this release, but I do understand the commercial need on the Props side to expand their base. I only wanted MORE after waiting for various sequencer/workflow features to be implemented for years and we got basically nothing. Still and Reason fan. Looking forward to the next update.NekujaK wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019After closely following this thread, and others on the web, for a day-and-a-half, and occasionally chiming in myself, I've come to the following conclusions, FWIW:
RACK VST: The Rack VST makes good business sense for the Props (I'm going to continue to call them that). It breathes new life into REs and exposes them to a large new audience.
REASON 11: The handful of improvements to the Reason DAW feel like a point release rather than a full-blown new version. For me personally, this is my main source of irritation with the announcement. It should've simply been 10.5 for free, or add more substantial fixes before releasing it as 11. And the Rack VST should have been released separately as its own product.
EXTERNAL REACTION: Non-Reason users outside this forum are generally very excited about the Rack VST, so it seems like it could sell well, which is good for the Props' bottom line.
INTERNAL REACTION: Quite a few loyal Reason users are miffed the Reason DAW didn't get more love in this update. Particularly after so many much-needed improvements were discussed so intensely for the past year or so.
IMPROVING REASON: The lack of any direct statements (unless I missed something) from the Props about continuing to actively support and improve the Reason DAW is a little worrying. On the one hand, the code base is very old and is probably difficult to work with. On the other hand, they just performed a mammoth job on 10.4 to change how Reason processes audio internally, so it would seem other core changes are feasible - but do the Props feel the effort is worthwhile?
FUTURE OF REASON: So we're left with this big question: If and how will the Reason DAW continue to be supported? That'll probably be hotly debated until the Props weigh-in with a definitive statement (don't hold your breath), or the company is sold, or goes out of business, or aliens land and adopt Reason as their primary inter-galactic navigation device.
LOOK OUT AHEAD: Whatever happens, I feel there will be some big changes surrounding Reason and the business behind it in the next year. So hunker down, it's going to get bumpy...
- Last Alternative
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My sentiment exactly.artmessiah wrote: ↑27 Aug 2019...I don't care how anyone spins this, for those like myself that like to use only reason this release sucks. I am excited for everyone else that has either moved on from reason to other DAWs ... but I do understand the commercial need on the Props side to expand their base. I only wanted MORE after waiting for various sequencer/workflow features to be implemented for years and we got basically nothing. Still and Reason fan. Looking forward to the next update.
I've tried other DAWs and always loved Reason more than any. That's why I use it. So after paying probably $1,000 or more by now and investing my soul, I don't feel bad about voicing myself.
Plus I am happy others find Reason VST useful too, not tryna bring down the house over it.
I think I've said all I can about my personal feelings. It's like stages of excitement, denial, anger, and acceptance for the last few upgrades. So fingers crossed for the next one if I'm still in their world.
It's just a cryin shame they never aim to please all sides. I mean, we wait 2 yrs or so for an upgrade. They should be HUGE compared to what we get. But I have to remind myself about examples like the newest car compared to the previous model.. or the best example = iPhones. Seems upgrades in general are a joke anymore, no matter what the product is.
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
12.7.4 | MacBook Pro (16”, 2021), OS Sonoma, M1 Max, 4TB SSD, 64GB RAM | quality instruments & gear
12.7.4 | MacBook Pro (16”, 2021), OS Sonoma, M1 Max, 4TB SSD, 64GB RAM | quality instruments & gear
On top of Reason and Logic, I use Korg Gadget and all gadgets are available as VST or AU in any DAW, at first it sounds excellent, but actually I never use them externally, I prefer to stay in the (very simple) native Korg Gadget sequencer, the fun is there, and then to render each track to remix in Logic or Reason if necessary. So I guess I would not use the Rack in Logic, doesn't make any sense for me, I prefer to stay in Reason and eventually use my excellent external plugins (they are all available as dual AU/VST nowadays) in Reason if necessary. I don't think the rack will be a huge success, there are soooo many excellent VST/AU on the market, and not so many awesome REs which are not also VST/AU, so why one would pay to use the RE in his DAW instead of purchasing VST / AU. Particularly if you cannot use the players with external instruments as it seems to be the case as far as I understand
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