Drum Sequencer: Opportunity Missed?

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Wobbleburger
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Location: Austin

Post 25 Oct 2018

BradfordMoeller wrote:
25 May 2018
I was so excited by this, and even getting started with it felt great. And then I put it on top of an instance of Toontrack EZDrummer, and discovered that indeed, it only has 8 assignable drum sounds.

It seems very odd to me that you need 3-4 of these on top of most sampled acoustic kits, *and you even need 2 just for a Kong.

I understand that it is a sleek, simple, powerful tool, but what use is it, and how streamlined is it, when you need several of them for a simple Kong kit?- A simple scroll of up to maybe 32 assignable drum sounds would be so much better.

Does anyone else share my frustration?
I feel your frustration. I would love to see 9-16 as an option. Having to make another Drum Seq or write the rest of the drums in midi is annoying. I'd rather everything be nice and tidy and controlled by 1 automation lane.
I like jungle.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 25 Oct 2018

MrFigg wrote:
25 Oct 2018
I still wish I could automate the Alter, Random and Shift buttons. But I can’t. Damnit!!!
A shit answer but you could setup 3 drum Seq setting one to Alter, one to Random and one to shift and automate the on/off button. Not sure how well it would work...

MrFigg
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Post 25 Oct 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
25 Oct 2018
MrFigg wrote:
25 Oct 2018
I still wish I could automate the Alter, Random and Shift buttons. But I can’t. Damnit!!!
A shit answer but you could setup 3 drum Seq setting one to Alter, one to Random and one to shift and automate the on/off button. Not sure how well it would work...
Thanks for the suggestion man. Thing is...without automation of those three functions I’d just have 3 instances of altered patterns. Not something changing and evolving. Or did you mean something else? I’m tired and got the flu so my brain is a bit foggy just now.

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 25 Oct 2018

MrFigg wrote:
25 Oct 2018
Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
25 Oct 2018


A shit answer but you could setup 3 drum Seq setting one to Alter, one to Random and one to shift and automate the on/off button. Not sure how well it would work...
Thanks for the suggestion man. Thing is...without automation of those three functions I’d just have 3 instances of altered patterns. Not something changing and evolving. Or did you mean something else? I’m tired and got the flu so my brain is a bit foggy just now.
No you are not going mad, I did not understand the functionality of those settings thinking they were more global, so I was right it was a shit answer not even close LOL...

MrFigg
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Post 25 Oct 2018

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
25 Oct 2018
MrFigg wrote:
25 Oct 2018


Thanks for the suggestion man. Thing is...without automation of those three functions I’d just have 3 instances of altered patterns. Not something changing and evolving. Or did you mean something else? I’m tired and got the flu so my brain is a bit foggy just now.
No you are not going mad, I did not understand the functionality of those settings thinking they were more global, so I was right it was a shit answer not even close LOL...
Well you have my thanks for trying :). Appreciated:).

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BradfordMoeller
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Post 12 Feb 2019

Zombie thread resurrected because of new Reason Drum RE- Does anyone have any creative or unusual ideas on how to effectively/ efficiently compose realistic sounding pieces with it, using one or more of the drum sequencer?
:reason:)))

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guitfnky
Posts: 925
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Post 12 Feb 2019

BradfordMoeller wrote:
12 Feb 2019
Zombie thread resurrected because of new Reason Drum RE- Does anyone have any creative or unusual ideas on how to effectively/ efficiently compose realistic sounding pieces with it, using one or more of the drum sequencer?
it’s pretty good at generating fill patterns, editing the probabilities and multi-hits. usually I’ll program a basic beat, and toss in a bunch of tom and/or snare hits with adjusted probability numbers to create fills that don’t play the same way every time. it’s also really important to consider the velocity for each strike, if you want it to sound natural.

unfortunately, once you get beyond the above, the real weaknesses of Drum Sequencer start to show themselves. the aforementioned velocities can be set at each step, which is good, but you can’t really vary those very easily, so every time that kitpiece triggers at that step, it’s always going to be at the same velocity—not always realistic. then there’s the timing...it’s a normal sequencer, in that regard—you can add some (or a lot of) swing to it, sure, but that doesn’t get you very far. it’s really difficult to get a natural, lively groove going with the same robotic sequencer timing that’s been used for decades now. 🥺

one thing that’s helped me is to get my sequenced finalized and bounced out to MIDI tracks, and then use the Groove Mixer to give them some actual life. it’s actually sort of a necessity, IMO.

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guitfnky
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Post 12 Feb 2019

now that I think of it, I really think the Groove Mixer could use a major overhaul. or maybe PH could get rid of it altogether and replace it in Reason 11 with a new Player that serves the same function in a smarter way.

I’d love to be able to see a visual representation of what a groove looks like and what it’s doing to the timing and velocity of the tracks.

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Loque
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Post 12 Feb 2019

guitfnky wrote:
12 Feb 2019
now that I think of it, I really think the Groove Mixer could use a major overhaul. or maybe PH could get rid of it altogether and replace it in Reason 11 with a new Player that serves the same function in a smarter way.

I’d love to be able to see a visual representation of what a groove looks like and what it’s doing to the timing and velocity of the tracks.
Interesting point. There were several feature request to add "humanize" with froward/backward/length/velocity (and more?) randomization or grooves. This is the only thing i used the Groove mixer for. The patterns were just not transparency enough for me to use them.

But AFAIK it is not possible for a Player to send a note back in time. The other features are more or less already available with other Players or additional routing.

What exactly do you want to have as a Player?
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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guitfnky
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Post 12 Feb 2019

Loque wrote:
12 Feb 2019
guitfnky wrote:
12 Feb 2019
now that I think of it, I really think the Groove Mixer could use a major overhaul. or maybe PH could get rid of it altogether and replace it in Reason 11 with a new Player that serves the same function in a smarter way.

I’d love to be able to see a visual representation of what a groove looks like and what it’s doing to the timing and velocity of the tracks.
Interesting point. There were several feature request to add "humanize" with froward/backward/length/velocity (and more?) randomization or grooves. This is the only thing i used the Groove mixer for. The patterns were just not transparency enough for me to use them.

But AFAIK it is not possible for a Player to send a note back in time. The other features are more or less already available with other Players or additional routing.

What exactly do you want to have as a Player?
yep, I’m one of those people that’s been vocal about asking for something like that. :D

I know it’s not possible to time travel a note back before it’s been generated (been involved in those convos too). the suggestion I made back then was around improvements to Kompulsion or Drum Sequencer—it’s not impossible for the unit that’s generating the notes in the first place to move notes ahead of the beat. you can already do this in Propulsion using the little timing knobs on the back, so I know it’s possivle.

that said, what would I want from a Groove player? I don’t really know *how* it would work (I just thought of it, after all). but what I’d want it to *do* is easy: the same thing that the Groove Mixer already does—alter timing and velocity of a MIDI performance in a realistic, musical way, perhaps using another MIDI groove track like the GM does, perhaps not. either way, some way to visually represent the way the groove is going to affect timing and velocity would be useful.

I don’t think it’s accurate at all to suggest the features of the Groove Mixer are already available in existing Players already (unless I’m totally missing something). sure, you can modify velocity and timing, but that’s not the same thing as making them “groove”.

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Loque
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Post 12 Feb 2019

guitfnky wrote:
12 Feb 2019
I don’t think it’s accurate at all to suggest the features of the Groove Mixer are already available in existing Players already (unless I’m totally missing something). sure, you can modify velocity and timing, but that’s not the same thing as making them “groove”.
Yea, the shuffle, slide, hang, lag and similar stuff is missing - regarding note gate and length(?).
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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guitfnky
Posts: 925
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Post 12 Feb 2019

Loque wrote:
12 Feb 2019
guitfnky wrote:
12 Feb 2019
I don’t think it’s accurate at all to suggest the features of the Groove Mixer are already available in existing Players already (unless I’m totally missing something). sure, you can modify velocity and timing, but that’s not the same thing as making them “groove”.
Yea, the shuffle, slide, hang, lag and similar stuff is missing - regarding note gate and length(?).
yep, exactly. well, the slide is missing, at least. I know a few of the generative Players have shuffle settings, but that runs into the issue I mentioned in one of my previous comments in this thread.

I don’t personally care much about note length, because I’d be using such a Player mainly for triggering acoustic samples, like RDK, etc., but it would probably be ideal to have options to humanize that too, for anyone who might want to control pitched instruments with it.

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EnochLight
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Post 12 Feb 2019

BradfordMoeller wrote:
12 Feb 2019
Zombie thread resurrected because of new Reason Drum RE- Does anyone have any creative or unusual ideas on how to effectively/ efficiently compose realistic sounding pieces with it, using one or more of the drum sequencer?
Have you checked out the large collection of MIDI files that come with the RDK RE? There's some great content in there to get you started that allows you to work right inside of Reason's main seq.
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BradfordMoeller
Posts: 19
Joined: 06 Oct 2016

Post 14 Feb 2019

guitfnky wrote:
12 Feb 2019
Loque wrote:
12 Feb 2019


Interesting point. There were several feature request to add "humanize" with froward/backward/length/velocity (and more?) randomization or grooves. This is the only thing i used the Groove mixer for. The patterns were just not transparency enough for me to use them.

But AFAIK it is not possible for a Player to send a note back in time. The other features are more or less already available with other Players or additional routing.

What exactly do you want to have as a Player?
yep, I’m one of those people that’s been vocal about asking for something like that. :D

I know it’s not possible to time travel a note back before it’s been generated (been involved in those convos too). the suggestion I made back then was around improvements to Kompulsion or Drum Sequencer—it’s not impossible for the unit that’s generating the notes in the first place to move notes ahead of the beat. you can already do this in Propulsion using the little timing knobs on the back, so I know it’s possivle.

that said, what would I want from a Groove player? I don’t really know *how* it would work (I just thought of it, after all). but what I’d want it to *do* is easy: the same thing that the Groove Mixer already does—alter timing and velocity of a MIDI performance in a realistic, musical way, perhaps using another MIDI groove track like the GM does, perhaps not. either way, some way to visually represent the way the groove is going to affect timing and velocity would be useful.

I don’t think it’s accurate at all to suggest the features of the Groove Mixer are already available in existing Players already (unless I’m totally missing something). sure, you can modify velocity and timing, but that’s not the same thing as making them “groove”.
Interesting points!- I like the layout of the regroove mixer a lot, but I think there are possibly some small changes that would keep it just about as simple, but more compelling to go to on a regular basis.
EnochLight wrote:
12 Feb 2019
BradfordMoeller wrote:
12 Feb 2019
Zombie thread resurrected because of new Reason Drum RE- Does anyone have any creative or unusual ideas on how to effectively/ efficiently compose realistic sounding pieces with it, using one or more of the drum sequencer?
Have you checked out the large collection of MIDI files that come with the RDK RE? There's some great content in there to get you started that allows you to work right inside of Reason's main seq.
I did check them out, and they do sound like really good starters for some genres, but it's tough to compare to the amount of midi I'm used to working with, with say EZDrummer. Thanks for the suggestion!
:reason:)))

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