How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?

This forum is for discussing Rack Extensions. Devs are all welcome to show off their goods.
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nickb523
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17 May 2018

guitfnky wrote:
17 May 2018
just think of all the fun “wtf is Props thinking??!!?/Propellerhead are losing it!!!” threads we could look forward to. 😆
A couple of people here are positively swooning at the very thought of it! :lol:

danc
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17 May 2018

jayhosking wrote:
17 May 2018
danc wrote:
17 May 2018

When I said "not very good" I was referring to the new wave of REs coming through in recent months and very little stands out. Yes - there is a steady stream of something new... but I'd rather have quality not quantity.
Just off the top of my head: Selig's EQ, JP's shimmerverb, the ES-01 (pricey, I know, but some people really dig it), a bunch of the new players... I'd personally say there's plenty of quality coming into the shop.
Fair play - those REs are good. For me ES-01 is worth adding to my collection... and will trial it... but for this month and sticking to my rules of "staying within my budget" I'm going to buy Noise Engineering's trio of Euro-rack synths as they cover an area of sound that I want more of (I've got Arturia's V-collection and the Buchla Easel V is a fun experimental device).

Whereas... for the other devices you mention... I've got a wide-range of reverb devices and EQs to not need any more unless a real corker comes along.

For me the new range of Players coming out rock my boat and I am keen to see how developers utilise this technology.

As a side note - last year I opted for the full Kilohearts collection of devices, which are solid FX workhorses... but I opted for the VST versions (not RE instances) as I wanted to run them in the Multipass and SnapHeap hosts, which opens up many avenues for sound design. Multipass is like what you can do in a Combinator, but zoning each device into specific frequency bands. The modulation routing in Multipass is insanely powerful.
All my music created, produced and mastered in Reason 10


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jayhosking
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17 May 2018

danc wrote:
17 May 2018
Fair play - those REs are good. For me ES-01 is worth adding to my collection... and will trial it... but for this month and sticking to my rules of "staying within my budget" I'm going to buy Noise Engineering's trio of Euro-rack synths as they cover an area of sound that I want more of (I've got Arturia's V-collection and the Buchla Easel V is a fun experimental device).
Funny, I had an OK time with ES-01 but didn't feel it filled any vacancies for me. That JP shimmerverb, though...

And yeah, I also just picked up Arturia's V Collection. I haven't even touched the Buchla yet (down the CS-80 rabbit hole)!

We live in an awesome era. I feel sound-rich!

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Oenkenstein
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17 May 2018

Offcourse there are RE's where the sound can be made with Reason stock devices.
Like drum modules, more cowbell, attention seekers and alike.

But does it matter?
No. Because you get a nice GUI, a smoother workflow and the advantage for the developer that what is made, is a copy protected product.

The new SDK contains the Gorilla Engine: IDT has become adult, has ton of features.
It is up to the developer to decide to use creativity and combine all the possibilities in the SDK or Gorilla Engine to a new and worthwhile product or see Reason users as a milkcow and thus, as assumed, start throwing another same compressor on the market or repackage effects offered in the new SDK or Gorilla Engine.

But I believe that developers do not see Reason users as a milkcow and when you think they do, just stop buying these Rack Extensions as the consumer dictates the market.

Instead of owning the SDK and start to complain about some developers attitude, it might be worthwile to start building your own RE's. That would be really positive and awesome.

seqoi
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18 May 2018

selig wrote:
17 May 2018


That’s not exactly correct (answering since that link included information from me).



This made it very difficult (if not impossible in some cases) to reproduce these FX using Reason devices. You can come close for some presets, but will totally miss the mark with others.
I apologize then i did not know that was the case and got wrong impression from article. Thanks for clearing it up.

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Zac
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18 May 2018

eusti wrote:
17 May 2018
What I'm missing in threads like this is what could be described as kindness or respect... I think its ok to state if you don't like things and it might even be very helpful for the developers... Though it could help to think of these REs as any other kind of creation... Like for instance pieces of music... Just imagine someone would say these things about your music... Songs that you worked hard on and poured your soul into... Yes, in objectively it might not be the best thing since the Beatles, but most likely it's the best you thought you could do under those circumstances... And then - in my limited understanding - writing a piece of software takes a lot longer than writing a song, so there is more on the line.

Again: Yes, please share what you think and how you feel about things, that's what I assume this forum is about, but maybe be a bit more considerate.

D.
Well said D. I apologise for the tone of my posts and that they seemed to single out one dev. If i had been sober i would have been more thoughtful. It has been productive for me as a discussion though.

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turn2on
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18 May 2018

As I write before, some fxs into IDT2 created in our thandem with UJAM (yes UJAM create DSP and whole of them). Many functions in this fxs added also with our suggestion to build FXs that come to shop.
Users and devs that get 1.0 IDT2 today dont know it.
But library of IDT2 created by UJAM include many creativity things tarted form beta-test of platform. Libarary elementsthat every dev can look, partly have suggestions from us (Turn2on).
At this moment into IDT library - many things created specialy for build our FXs that coming to shop.

In near update you get HarmBode with new function, that I talk before. And it real suggestion to UJAM to create our RE as one of solutions in our updates of another our released REs.

Who think that Turn2 just get IDT2, cerate one-fx device and its all - is crazy and misunderstand how this fxs born as RE in shop this days and how it born as library elements before. UJAM make great work and you not understand a half what it is. Not all devs known whats going on with IDT2 next.

Talks about that anyone can going to dev zone, just get IDT and create like-a-comb REi, totaly disunderstand how it work and how born library.
And we significantly affected the very appearance of this functional in the IDT, which generally fundamentally changes the essence of the IDT package to use effects.
Think that current effects ugly? Its you opinion - no problems. But its modern DSP effects, that born in our big list and time suggestions to UJAM not at last monthes, before.
I dont know another devs (but may be them too) who suggest main parts of current IDT from early tests around 1 year ago.
IDT not only library and editor package. Its all new wold for musical instruments/effects creating.

And if anyone start talk that its a shit to use basic library, I not react on it, because this man absolutely misunderstand how all this thing born from scratch by UJAM and how IDT utated from early beta-test with devs role.

Actual devs look on this as ok, I open IDT package. Seen this and this. And as this dev think, Turn2on just get it ready and package to RE. Its wrong. He dont know that this lbrary fxs created by UJAM have things that we ask many monthes ago before IDT come to dev in beta-tests.

Basicaly library effects is modern effects,absolutely not touch Reason core devices.
Devs can create with IDT anything that need. Its basic level devices or not, more deeper? - End users will not lose anything in any case.

So I open partly info that library by UJAM mutated by personaly DEVs suggestion for their needs many monthes ago. And we do it specially, for use it in our relased effects. Partly library mutate to be better with this line.
But, our FX not stop on this. Who said that PhatSat ugly, same sound to scream4?? Absurd. Its not final device at all too. Now its basic, and have ready plans and work to update.

Many users write to us that they like devices in work and how they sound. Part of users on forum said that this fxs ugly (dont know they test them or just talk about it to write anything.. if this users talk that this fxs repeat sound of scram4 - i think they just not try them but talk about it!)

I think at this point talking about IDT structure really not needed to end-users of reason in public forum.

All what can be from this topic - is
1) NDA problems,
2) negative from users to IDT platform with absolutly misunderstanding what it is and how devs use it (topic show, that some devs talk about another devs with negative, and really dont know how IDT library and project is born. (I repeat that we - Turn2on work with IDT2 beta-test around whole last year). But Devs that coming in theme that talk as negative key about one-library-element based fx as a ugly work, dont know that going with IDT at background all this year and IDT library! This devs get released final IDT version at this days, or from start of year later betas. I know parts in IDT that I persanally ask from UJAM, i think there few devs that test and ask some functional too. I'm not exaggerating at all when said that I as Turn2on part - make big role for influenced the possibility of creating FXs RE from IDT2.

But! Its very easy open published IDT, come to public forum and create negative way with extremely poor understanding and negative opinion on how current IDT is been created and role of another devs in IDT structure, library elements that created and nice-mutated in time.

Who think that fxs from IDT is bad idea - not buy it, not like to try it - dont said that this effects is ugly. There many users that compare this RE effects with another REs and also VSTs, and said yes - its very good devices.

From this negative way to talk about using IDT platform, you not create anithing good for IDT platform and UJAM works. Reason users read it and listen it as last instance, making wrong conclusions. In this way users born wrong associations with platform.. Its absolutely wrong bad play for all of us - devs, Reason useres.

Our devices known and viewed by UJAM. They not come deep to devs test, they create own instruments and this project IDT. UJAm know about REs, because many devs talk about it with them. Later - RE coming with tests by Propellerhead.
Users of Reason - really need to know structure of RE (IDT or Scratch/DSPlibrary RE) ????
No.
Users of Reason - musicians. They need to test and listen how its sound, try how it wok.

And need to say that any devs not TRY to cow any users. Musicians have 30 day trials to full tests. They can like or not it and make his selection personaly. Talk about devs create more and more ugly RE, wrong, because there many users who like with this REs and they not starters in reason world as you can think.

I look that some forum-users like to talk that they start use Reason from first versions.. And they know more than anyanother users with smaller experience.. Its absolutely crazy argument. Im persanallystart use Reason from version 2.5. I long time test 2.0.
I prefer Reason to any DAW all this years and love it.

Today I love to create any REs with understanding how stock devices of Reason sound, what possible in Reason with them. And absolutely understand why we create this RE today. We create at first moment all our RE - as what we can use personally as Reason devices in musical needs!

Main part of selection by any RE - is a listenng in ork, trial test.
But politic of sayng - this dev make ugly RE, is personally opinion. Another Reason-love-user with stage have abother opinion and its ok! Musicians really not need all spectre of Reason RE devices, all of them have own tasks and need various devices out from standard Reason box.

I belive this post partly help understand whats going on with IDT2, and what role play some devs to current version of IDT.
More devices - not more cow/users devs. More devices - more creativity.

Hybrid devices - is a cool tyhing. But if you real musician, you absolutely understand tha sometime limited devices also needed too, when big combo fxs, just eat your DSP, and you can use more easy what you need, if it sound nice.

RobC
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18 May 2018

"How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?"

People can start by asking developers, or Propellerhead Software, instead of falsely defaming companies and lessening their selling chances, scaring potential customers away - not just from specific developers, the whole Rack Extension market.

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tc13
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20 May 2018

RobC wrote:
18 May 2018
"How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?"

People can start by asking developers, or Propellerhead Software, instead of falsely defaming companies and lessening their selling chances, scaring potential customers away - not just from specific developers, the whole Rack Extension market.
Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?

If a device sounds good, or do something that works in my music making why the f--k should I care how it was produced? :o I have seen a lot of the same reasoning in the VST-world and stuff that has been made in SynthEdit. When people find out that is made with SynthEdit all of a sudden the sound they liked five minutes ago sounds worse and it is not worth paying for :o :?:

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Loque
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20 May 2018

tc13 wrote:
20 May 2018
Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?
Absolutly not. IMO.

I trust me ears, and i wont check the DSP code to proof my ears were right or wrong. If i cant proof by ear, i should be quiet. Its a discussion like "mehh, the synth aliases, it is bad"... Oh man... So sad such pointless discussions. _IMO_ ;)
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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rcbuse
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20 May 2018

I've personally never understood the distaste for IDT. It would be like wanting to avoid a game because it uses the Unity engine or something. Are there shitty unity games? Sure, plenty. Are there shitty IDT devices? Sure, plenty, but there are also great IDT devices.

If you spend enough time working with the nitty gritty details of DSP, you start to realize its all really the same shit wired together in different ways. Most DSP code just reimplments the same whitepapers and books anyways. What you are really paying for is the interface that lets you manipulate sounds. What does it matter if someone uses a delay or distortion thats already coded or they roll their own? At least with IDT things are going to be less buggy and more optimized.

strangers
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20 May 2018

This reminds me of the great divide for Waves plugins. So many of their newer releases get bashed by people claiming they're existing plugins strung together and hidden behind a new interface. I don't even bother reading any reviews for Waves plugins anymore. I'll trial whatever piques my interest. More times than not, their plugins streamline and speedup processes that usually requires several RE, VST or routing to accomplish. If a RE or VST can save me time and sound just as good, if not better, then I have no problem purchasing.

One trend I'm noticing with newer RE (not all) that I'm not a fan of is releasing with the promise of more, bigger, better, tastier features in a future updates. Updates for optimization, performance and bugs is a different story. The previous is similar to game developers releasing part of a game and stringing your wallet and time along for the ride when they get around to finishing the rest as paid DLC. The paid part usually isn't the case for RE luckily. Even with that being said, why not fully complete a project before releasing with disclaimers to cover what's missing/lacking?

The only good I get out of that is a quick and easy way to know what to skip on.

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Loque
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20 May 2018

strangers wrote:
20 May 2018
This reminds me of the great divide for Waves plugins. So many of their newer releases get bashed by people claiming they're existing plugins strung together and hidden behind a new interface. I don't even bother reading any reviews for Waves plugins anymore. I'll trial whatever piques my interest. More times than not, their plugins streamline and speedup processes that usually requires several RE, VST or routing to accomplish. If a RE or VST can save me time and sound just as good, if not better, then I have no problem purchasing.

One trend I'm noticing with newer RE (not all) that I'm not a fan of is releasing with the promise of more, bigger, better, tastier features in a future updates. Updates for optimization, performance and bugs is a different story. The previous is similar to game developers releasing part of a game and stringing your wallet and time along for the ride when they get around to finishing the rest as paid DLC. The paid part usually isn't the case for RE luckily. Even with that being said, why not fully complete a project before releasing with disclaimers to cover what's missing/lacking?

The only good I get out of that is a quick and easy way to know what to skip on.
Fair point. But if companys would only release finished ( :lol: ) or bugfree ( :puf_bigsmile: ) software, we never would receive any software.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

strangers
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20 May 2018

Loque wrote:
20 May 2018
strangers wrote:
20 May 2018
This reminds me of the great divide for Waves plugins. So many of their newer releases get bashed by people claiming they're existing plugins strung together and hidden behind a new interface. I don't even bother reading any reviews for Waves plugins anymore. I'll trial whatever piques my interest. More times than not, their plugins streamline and speedup processes that usually requires several RE, VST or routing to accomplish. If a RE or VST can save me time and sound just as good, if not better, then I have no problem purchasing.

One trend I'm noticing with newer RE (not all) that I'm not a fan of is releasing with the promise of more, bigger, better, tastier features in a future updates. Updates for optimization, performance and bugs is a different story. The previous is similar to game developers releasing part of a game and stringing your wallet and time along for the ride when they get around to finishing the rest as paid DLC. The paid part usually isn't the case for RE luckily. Even with that being said, why not fully complete a project before releasing with disclaimers to cover what's missing/lacking?

The only good I get out of that is a quick and easy way to know what to skip on.
Fair point. But if companys would only release finished ( :lol: ) or bugfree ( :puf_bigsmile: ) software, we never would receive any software.
We would live in quite the fantasy world then. Like I mentioned before, I totally undestand bug and optimization updates but to release a movie and say act 2, 5, 7 and the ending will be added at a later date isn't cool. Same goes for RE's. The Prop Shop already has limited filters to make searching through the monster list of RE time consuming. Maybe better search/filter parameters would keep someone like me quiet in these instances.

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Loque
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20 May 2018

strangers wrote:
20 May 2018
Loque wrote:
20 May 2018

Fair point. But if companys would only release finished ( :lol: ) or bugfree ( :puf_bigsmile: ) software, we never would receive any software.
We would live in quite the fantasy world then. Like I mentioned before, I totally undestand bug and optimization updates but to release a movie and say act 2, 5, 7 and the ending will be added at a later date isn't cool. Same goes for RE's. The Prop Shop already has limited filters to make searching through the monster list of RE time consuming. Maybe better search/filter parameters would keep someone like me quiet in these instances.
:lol: . I just slapped AMA*ON for selling me a season for full price which consists of only a few parts and not the full season. So yea, that seems to happen on other things than RE too.

But i agree, that developers should do a minimum quality assurance and a minimum set of usefull features. If not, they probably get slapped (yea, AMA*ON) by their customer and they might never come back again. Well, Apple customers are different here, they always come back even if they buy overpriced crap.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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turn2on
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20 May 2018

Hi there :puf_smile:
Situation when devs create something, and then talk about updates, just a situation then they not have finally instruments for what they need (IDT - updated thing..) or just have new own ideas or ideas form testers. Its clean situatuon.

All updates that we announce - coming. Its not break first releases, and not main function of REs, but it can be very helpful and creative at hands in work. Our testers and users write new ideas and we try to listen it. To realise ideas (include final beta-test) - need some time. But publishing of RE, sometime can be waiting for users to one month and more.
I not talk that create clean things and try to attach anything is super-duper idea. Not.

Also need to say, when devs talk about current near updates that include functionality, users must understand that this updates is free. Nobody need RE, that in few weeks going to update for money. Its bad. Updates that can going as major new versions that not free, is serious updates that change game of RE.
You can remember last update of one dev for CV. Users not like this idea at main part. And its absolutely logical. Good that CV-addon games ended for users as example. I not try to talk about any dev games, users talk personally about any things on forum.

But - I recommend not try to talk about IDT as SynthEdit, IDT absolutely MORE optimised. VST users not like SynthEdit for various things, one of them - not better optimisation. With IDT - its more deeper.
Reaktor - also very nice DEV platform without DSP coding. And Reaktor cool way to do new things.
IDT - very intresting, stable platform with orientation to Reason users and community.
In last year I know few users that going into it deeper, work on new REs. Its absolutely various ideas and methods of creativity, workflow to create RE, and use library of IDT.

Better thing that Reason-community do for IDT, is just forgot about this abbreviator and just start try and work at trials with coming REs, if they in interesting range of personal needs of musician.

Know, that many users like to talk, listen what say another reason-users about any product. They think that experience of another musicians - can help. Its half of true. Better things - know what possible for RE, how it sound, and may be - how it work from manual with details and theory.

Users can talk about RE - its not finally in situation when RE not support what it must do in product info and physically.. Its a lie from devs. But I dont know this products in shop. If RE is coming to shop - it tested by PH, info created to users that also trying RE before buying. And what a hell is going on in situation when RE not do what it must do.. In situations when RE coming to shop and do what it must do, it product with version. Next updates - at devs hands. Its can be series of minor free updates with additions and bug-fixes, and can be major updates with something new, reworked (there devs can ask payment). But to recreate RE - dev need serious thoughts for this. Create something new, and for free - for many devs harder, and they do (if work is big) versions with price, sometimes its can be free.
I not like buy anything as update, if this is not a Reason major version update :puf_bigsmile:
And our REs, that wait updates, released as finished versions 1.0, but any plans to add something - not really bad. As I said before, something going into head later, something suggest testers and users. And its can be really useful in updates.

Looking at REs as DLC analogy in my opinion is crazy idea. I not believe that DEVs of RE come this way and ask to pay for anything later. Its not DEV-game with this analogy, if users like to thing this way - its his own situation. In real - devs can announce any updates near of first release. Why not? No points to think that this announce is solution to create DLC-like game from DEVs.

Any updates - optimisation, bug fixes, new elements and creativity, GUI changes, etc..

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normen
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20 May 2018

"Hey RE devs, please invent the math yourself, write every single instruction yourself and god forbid you make the GUI generic. Oh and please don't make that more than 20$ or we'll mention the high price every chance we get." :roll:
Professional Audio Engineer, Germany / Part Time Programmer

RobC
Posts: 477
Joined: 10 Mar 2018

20 May 2018

tc13 wrote:
20 May 2018
RobC wrote:
18 May 2018
"How do I know an RE isn't just some advanced combinator of stock / sdk devices?"

People can start by asking developers, or Propellerhead Software, instead of falsely defaming companies and lessening their selling chances, scaring potential customers away - not just from specific developers, the whole Rack Extension market.
Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?

If a device sounds good, or do something that works in my music making why the f--k should I care how it was produced? :o I have seen a lot of the same reasoning in the VST-world and stuff that has been made in SynthEdit. When people find out that is made with SynthEdit all of a sudden the sound they liked five minutes ago sounds worse and it is not worth paying for :o :?:
When it comes to sound, only the end result matters - when it comes to us people, who can process emotions, the original work of the developer, creator, counts too.

Pricing the question of fairness matters. The rest is placebo.

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tc13
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20 May 2018

RobC wrote:
20 May 2018
tc13 wrote:
20 May 2018


Does it really matter, and should it matter, how a synth/fx is produced/coded?

If a device sounds good, or do something that works in my music making why the f--k should I care how it was produced? :o I have seen a lot of the same reasoning in the VST-world and stuff that has been made in SynthEdit. When people find out that is made with SynthEdit all of a sudden the sound they liked five minutes ago sounds worse and it is not worth paying for :o :?:
When it comes to sound, only the end result matters - when it comes to us people, who can process emotions, the original work of the developer, creator, counts too.

Pricing the question of fairness matters. The rest is placebo.
If I pay for a work of art then I agree 100 per cent with this, but if I pay for a tool to use in my own work, the only thing that matters is that the tool is functioning as intended. If the creator of my "hammer" looked at other hammers when creating it, it is not something I care about...

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guitfnky
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20 May 2018

tc13 wrote:
20 May 2018
If I pay for a work of art then I agree 100 per cent with this, but if I pay for a tool to use in my own work, the only thing that matters is that the tool is functioning as intended. If the creator of my "hammer" looked at other hammers when creating it, it is not something I care about...
I refuse to use any hammer that isn’t made of authentic mahogany tonewood.

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avasopht
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21 May 2018

I think the issue with instruments might be a mix of being after synthesizers with more control than a rompler, and being able to better judge the value of the products.

Just a guess.

I think IDT is brilliant for romplers, but I do feel that there's subtly something missing in patch browsing. The way patches are presented to the user really is not that much different to Kontakt where libraries are listed in the browser and its patches can be navigated.

If the presentation of the patches were altered just a little it might have a completely different feel that resolves the perception.

The way they are catalogued, labelled and navigated to in the store might also make a huge difference.
---

Undistraction
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21 May 2018

Value is in the ear of the beholder. If you can't tell the difference between something made entirely with custom code and something made with IDT then either you have good ears and there is no difference (in which case it doesn't matter), or there is a difference in quality that you cannot hear (in which case the problem is with your ears).

Why on earth would you buy an RE because of its codebase instead of its sound?

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avasopht
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21 May 2018

Undistraction wrote:
21 May 2018
Value is in the ear of the beholder. If you can't tell the difference between something made entirely with custom code and something made with IDT then either you have good ears and there is no difference (in which case it doesn't matter), or there is a difference in quality that you cannot hear (in which case the problem is with your ears).

Why on earth would you buy an RE because of its codebase instead of its sound?
avasopht wrote:
21 May 2018
I think the issue with instruments might be a mix of being after synthesizers with more control than a rompler, and being able to better judge the value of the products.
When I mentioned value, I wasn't talking about the value because it's an IDT and not a synthesizer. I should have been clear. Basically, I think there may be a problem in general with value perceptions (or lack of perceptions) of IDT libraries, making it hard for some buyers to make positive purchasing decisions.

However subjective value is, I think it's fair to say that there are plenty of IDT's priced at $30 that very few (if any) would purchase for $1,000, but would purchase Kontakt Komplete Ultimate. The difference in value might not be easy to describe, but it is there.

This may be why bundles are much more popular nowadays as it makes the value judgement simpler - you are buying a workhorse to cater for lots of different needs, and it's either got your back covered or you can adjust your stance a little.
---

jlgrimes
Posts: 134
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21 May 2018

Zac wrote:
16 May 2018
Especially since the latest IDT sdk seems to be blossoming lots of 'basic' fx from previously much less prolific devs and let's face it, ones whose prior REs hardly inspired much applause.

If it isnt like i suspect and certain devs have suddenly been inspired or learned new skills then I'll happily recind my suspicions.

I guess that's why you can try the plug-ins out.


I would think though that the SDK should give you an infinite number of options for the developer to develop their own sound, I think it is much deeper than just copying a Subtractor or Thor oscillator.


Just like VSTs, there are so many REs, most commericial ones though will usually try to offer something unique to what can be achieved with the Factory Modules. Other devices are more time saver/workflow devices. Something like the Cakewalk CA-2A probably could be achieved with ingenieous Combinator Routing/tweaking but would be much easier just using the CA-2A (plus it gives you cool GR meters).

jlgrimes
Posts: 134
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

21 May 2018

Zac wrote:
16 May 2018
Especially since the latest IDT sdk seems to be blossoming lots of 'basic' fx from previously much less prolific devs and let's face it, ones whose prior REs hardly inspired much applause.

If it isnt like i suspect and certain devs have suddenly been inspired or learned new skills then I'll happily recind my suspicions.

I guess that's why you can try the plug-ins out.


I would think though that the SDK should give you an infinite number of options for the developer to develop their own sound, I think it is much deeper than just copying a Subtractor or Thor oscillator.


Just like VSTs, there are so many REs, most commericial ones though will usually try to offer something unique to what can be achieved with the Factory Modules. Other devices are more time saver/workflow devices. Something like the Cakewalk CA-2A probably could be achieved with ingenieous Combinator Routing/tweaking but would be much easier just using the CA-2A (plus it gives you cool GR meters).

Free REs could be anything though as some are just more experimental devices and could have been made for a variety of reasons and might not necessarily be a unique module.

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