Line 6 amps - the reason why they were removed?

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deepndark
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Ok, there's always been 100% backwards compatibility til the Line6 amps were removed.
This is a sucky situation, because I liked these amps and now can't open songs that used these in my projects. I can open, but the Softube amps don't sound the same. Neither does any of the RE amps sound the same. Did relationship between Props and Line 6 get bad or why did they remove them?

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jam-s
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Line6 got bought by Yamaha and then the deal supposely was not renewed or canceled. You could use Reason 8 installed in parallel to Reason 9 abd then use Reason 8 to render the guitartracks eith line 6 or to try to approximate their sound using other amps and FX.
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miscend
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Yes the best solution is to keep an older version of Reason installed. And you mix down the audio of any tracks that have line 6 amps that you want to work with in Reason 9.

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Riverman
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Yeah it sucks... What a bummer of a situation.
"Time is a sort of river of passing events, and strong is its current;
no sooner is a thing brought to sight than it is swept by and another takes its place,
and this too will be swept away." - Marcus Aurelius

KEVMOVE02
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Post 30 Nov 2016

I know this may not be an option for everyone, but repurposing an older computer to run Pod Farm exclusively is no different than connecting an external instrument to Reason. Add to the mix a Toneport UX2 with Pod Farm 2 Platinum and the legacy lives on. Next time you upgrade your computer, consider making your old system the home for older apps that you still find useful, but don't want to put on your main system. I did this with:

Native Instruments Guitar Rig
IK Multimedia Sampletron
PodFarm 2 Platinum

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Olivier
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Opening in 8 is still an option. Just be damn sure to not save those files in 9, they will get updated and will probably not open up again in 8.
:reason: V9 | i7 5930 | Motu 828 MK3 | Win 10

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jfrichards
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Hey Heikki, so glad you guys in Finland finally got the internet, so you can catch up with the long and complicated discussions on Reason and Line6. Just kidding, but not totally. There have been many great discussions on this, and many great solutions. The people I truly feel sorry for are those who bought the Line6 Pod Farm software which works in Reason 8. Personally I had invested a lot in IK Amplitube which was never integrated into Reason. Here is an example of the hundreds of threads started around 2014 on this:
http://line6.com/support/topic/8940-rea ... -pod-farm/
Did you invest in Pod Farm?
If you can explain exactly when, where and how you use Line6 during composing, I can list your best options.
If you can give me a link to one or two of your songs having the Line6 tone you love, I can show you best how to reproduce the tone with Reason9. Sometimes it is simply to cut out all frequencies above 4.5 KHz, while bumping up those between 1.5 and 2.5 KHz, while sometimes an R9 tone will need very complex harmonics added with specific distortion, saturation, and effects.
I think you will be happy in the end but it might take a while.

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deepndark
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Post 30 Nov 2016

eauhm wrote:Opening in 8 is still an option. Just be damn sure to not save those files in 9, they will get updated and will probably not open up again in 8.
Yes, I have Reason 8.3 too and 9.1.
Anyway, I still think the Line 6 amps should be there in 9 too or at least available as REs.

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joeyluck
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Post 30 Nov 2016

deepndark wrote:
eauhm wrote:Opening in 8 is still an option. Just be damn sure to not save those files in 9, they will get updated and will probably not open up again in 8.
Yes, I have Reason 8.3 too and 9.1.
Anyway, I still think the Line 6 amps should be there in 9 too or at least available as REs.
This is certainly something you can suggest to Line 6. Now that we have Rack Extensions and separate licensing, this sort of thing should certainly not happen again in the future.

In the end though, no other DAW has done such a great job with compatibility...over 16 years. And most other DAWs wouldn't even bother putting something in place to resolve the issue—they would just tell you that your project files can ONLY open in the old versions (rather than having a solution in place for you to continue to work in newer versions).

It's unfortunate, but at this point it's all on Line 6. I hear about many people contacting and pointing fingers at Propellerhead... But in the (three?) years it was first announced (giving us ample heads up), I have seen nothing about people bugging Line 6 about the situation or about making Rack Extensions. I haven't seen or heard a peep from Line 6; haven't seen anybody reply here with a quote (even canned) from Line 6. For all the developers we bug about making REs... if this is what people want, isn't that who they should be bugging?

I personally think the other options by Kuassa and Softube are better. But that's subjective and opinion of sound and less about compatibility. I much prefer the sound I get replacing the Line 6 amps in my songs. And Reason 8 is still there as a backup option. Overall, I think it was handled well and it was a learning experience.

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jfrichards
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Oh my goodness Heikki, I listened to tons of your songs and realized you don't use Line6 for guitar. You use it for guitar samples and loops, and maybe even synths and vocals. Line6 works really well for you as a way to get the smooth distortions, EQ and cabinets that fit in your professional sound. I can see why it sucks for you, you're losing a huge selection of effects chains. If I could, I'd send you a nice piece of Marjapiirakka.
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boomer
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Post 30 Nov 2016

As a former product development manager for 8 years at Line 6 my best guess would be that the market for Line 6 REs just isn't anywhere big enough for them (or any other major MI company) to put their resources into developing them. Big companies need tonnage to motivate them. Looks to me like REs are mainly developed by very small companies where that revenue model works.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 30 Nov 2016

boomer wrote:As a former product development manager for 8 years at Line 6 my best guess would be that the market for Line 6 REs just isn't anywhere big enough for them (or any other major MI company) to put their resources into developing them. Big companies need tonnage to motivate them. Looks to me like REs are mainly developed by very small companies where that revenue model works.
It's a shame, because the L6 amps were so much more versatile and sat better in the mix than the Softube amps (really don't get on with them). Kuassa is cool and all but it's still not immediate enough for me sometimes, and I find it hard to get rid of hiss that isn't present in my usual tones at high gain.

But then I've been on Line 6 stuff since the POD XT days, so maybe it's just what I'm used to. Surely, though, they wouldn't need to develop anything. Just take the racks that were already in 8, and sell them for people who want them in 9? I'd pay! Maybe that makes me a sucker but, I don't even care haha.
Enjoy!

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deepndark
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Post 30 Nov 2016

jfrichards - thanks for the Marjapiirakka, lol..
Yeah, I made lots of fake guitars with the Line 6 amp. And I also played a real guitar once. I have a guitar but I have no skills for anything special. I am a keyboardist.
If Ernst would make a phonecall to Yamaha and get them back to next Reason I'd be happy. NOT gonna happen propably. :(

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WillyOD
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Post 30 Nov 2016

I heard you guys were beating up a dead horse here? I also vote to bring back Line6 amps but that's about all I'm willing to do about it, which is still more than Props.
I've never seen so many colours... http://www.diippii.com.

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jfrichards
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Post 30 Nov 2016

Willy, what are you using for guitar sound in Reason? Lots of good tones. Sounds like you could use a nice piece of Marjapiirakka too.

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ejanuska
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Post 30 Nov 2016

The Line6 stuff is gone.
I've moved on.
I never owned any of their hardware. Now I don't use their software either.
The only reason I remember them is this thread.

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WillyOD
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Post 01 Dec 2016

Mostly Line6. I think I used Guitar Rig 3 in one older song (and maybe Amplitube in another). I used to track guitars in Reaper with VST plugs.

Nowadays I'm mainly using Creme (maybe some Vermillion in there too), since the Line6 amps are gone. Haven't really gotten into Softube amps yet.

I've chosen to compose and record everything within Reason. No more software switching. Impulse support (or laziness?) finally did it for me. It's been years since I've had a good tube amp so I might invest in one early next year for some "real" gritty metal guitar sounds.

I'll always go for some marjapiirakka. Especially with some damn fine coffee.
I've never seen so many colours... http://www.diippii.com.

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zabukowski
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Post 01 Dec 2016

Sorry if i am maybe slightly off-topic, but here is some good reading related to Reason amp sims ...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7289468
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7494254

I've just bought Kuassa Creme :re: , which calms me down a bit :cool:

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jfrichards
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Post 01 Dec 2016

zabukowski wrote:...I've just bought Kuassa Creme :re: , which calms me down a bit :cool:
Nice Frankie, check Dimi's stuff regularly:
http://nalbantov.com

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jfrichards
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Post 01 Dec 2016

For those really missing the stock Line6 sounds, and many of the Pod Farm add-ons, I recommend the Revival Guitar Amp Sim RE, hidden inside and behind the Revival organ. It is similar but a step up from Line6, and on sale right now for $59. Here's a little description for guitarists, and those who used Line6 for synths:
The "little" secret is that when you get the Revival top-notch Organ/Synth for Reason (unlike the new VST model), you also get the 5 guitar amp sims, 6 cabinets, 8 rotaries, 7 filters, 3 pedals (wah, swell and formant), 9 reverbs, and 7 delays available for Audio In (guitar, bass, mic), which can all be CV-modulated fully in the Reason environment, like for instance with Pulsar and Shape. It's a gold mine.

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zabukowski
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Post 02 Dec 2016

jfrichards wrote:
zabukowski wrote:...I've just bought Kuassa Creme :re: , which calms me down a bit :cool:
Nice Frankie, check Dimi's stuff regularly:
http://nalbantov.com
Of course, i am following his work for years - he didn't use Kuassa plugins back then (he used TH2, Guitar Rig etc.) - awesome stuff :)

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EnochLight
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Post 02 Dec 2016

Perhaps the original contractual agreement was poorly written? Props should have insisted that there was a clause that protected them in case Line6 were bought (such as, "upon sale of company or tech, purchasers must agree to same contract in place and support development of Line6 Reason devices blah blah blah") or something along those lines. That said, Line6 would likely have never committed to such a demand, and we never would have seen Line6 devices in Reason at all. It's just a travesty that the Line6 amps weren't created as RE's to begin with (and yes, I know that Line6 amps + Record predated the RE tech being ready by some time). All of this never would have happened... :(
Windows 10 | Reason 10.4 |  Studio One 4.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion

boomer
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Post 02 Dec 2016

Are you certain who dropped who? ;)

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jfrichards
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Post 02 Dec 2016

And the plot thickens...

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joeyluck
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Post 02 Dec 2016

Line 6 is gone in Reason 9. Line 6 is still in Reason 8 and previous.

Contact Line 6 if you want to see devices from them in the shop. Or contact other developers if there is a demand for particular type of Rack Extensions.

If it's really that important... ;)

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