Confused about "Discover"

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sinnerfire
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16 Nov 2015

Hello Reasontalk,

I am a bit confused about Propellerheads Discover, I mean, it looks great but it says "Make music with people from around the world".

BUT you're not really working with anybody are you, you are simply downloading there sound files and using them, which in my book is not actually collaborating or working with anybody.

So i tried Discover by hitting the "Drop to Propellerhead" button in the Reason menu and ended up with everything bounced down to one single track?
So this left me thinking....what's the use of that? how does that let you collaborate with someone across the world?

The Props, it seems, have put a lot of effort into there Discover thing but i really don't see the point of it.

They should rename it "The Reason user library" or something, somewhere you go to pilfer other people's musical ideas.

When Reason was a completely closed program, you could send your reason tunes to anybody with the same version of Reason as you and collaborate to your hearts content, I had some really successful collabs with my online friends from Russia and Spain.

In my opinion, I think they should scrap Discover and put something in place that allows you to identify other Reason users that have the same setup as you, same Re's, so we can really collaborate on projects together.

What do you think?
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Exowildebeest
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16 Nov 2015

I think it's intended as a social-media-bandwagon-marketing thing, for the generation obsessed with the concept of "sharing".

"Musical collaboration" is just a veil for that.

In this role as a marketing tool, it might be very successful. Fine by me. I'm not looking for a collaboration service anyway. The people genuinely looking for that, might indeed not enjoy Discover in its current state.

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sinnerfire
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16 Nov 2015

Exowildebeest wrote:I think it's intended as a social-media-bandwagon-marketing thing, for the generation obsessed with the concept of "sharing".

"Musical collaboration" is just a veil for that.

In this role as a marketing tool, it might be very successful. Fine by me. I'm not looking for a collaboration service anyway. The people genuinely looking for that, might indeed not enjoy Discover in its current state.
Interesting, i think a lot of people want to collaborate with "discover" but not by sharing audio files without even introducing yourself to the person, that's not collaborating in my book.

I liked the old days (sounding like my dad now?) when you could just ask the person, what version of reason are you using and if they had the same version as you, bang, you could collab on a project together.

Simple.

I also saw this tune by Yoric that opened my eyes a bit to discover as well.

https://www.propellerheads.se/s/vdYqUzMM
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mbfrancis
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16 Nov 2015

The deal-killer for me is that it seems like you lose the rights to anything you post. So it might be a fun way to release some loops I can't finish into the wild and find some collaborators that way, it doesn't really seem like a collaboration tool for serious music making.
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sinnerfire
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16 Nov 2015

mbfrancis wrote:The deal-killer for me is that it seems like you lose the rights to anything you post. So it might be a fun way to release some loops I can't finish into the wild and find some collaborators that way, it doesn't really seem like a collaboration tool for serious music making.
I see what you mean, i just dont understand why the Props would go to so much trouble to provide us with a service that in a way, is actually ripping us off?

I want to collab with like minded people, not rip them off or have someone approach me ten months down the line and claim half my work?
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Exowildebeest
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16 Nov 2015

sinnerfire wrote:
mbfrancis wrote:The deal-killer for me is that it seems like you lose the rights to anything you post. So it might be a fun way to release some loops I can't finish into the wild and find some collaborators that way, it doesn't really seem like a collaboration tool for serious music making.
I see what you mean, i just dont understand why the Props would go to so much trouble to provide us with a service that in a way, is actually ripping us off?

I want to collab with like minded people, not rip them off or have someone approach me ten months down the line and claim half my work?
I said why I think they did it. Marketing reasons. Grabbing the attention of a certain demographic.

The may still expand Discover to include some more serious collaboration tools, of course. But functionality is secondary, the above is primary.

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sinnerfire
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16 Nov 2015

Exowildebeest wrote: They may still expand Discover to include some more serious collaboration tools.
I hope your right, i would love to see a return to the days of Reasonstation, where you had a profile that you could upload your reason tunes to and meet with like minded people.

You could list what Re's you own and what type of music you like making ect this would make getting help or meeting like minded people much easier, for me at least.
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selig
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16 Nov 2015

I see two things here. One, is that they really have mis-labeled it as a collaboration tool. And that's something I'd REALLY like to see them develop for my own reasons plus the ones mentioned here.

Second, there is more than one way to use this feature, and I've not been interested in the intended use so much myself. But I HAVE found it very handy to PRIVATELY share songs/mixes with friends as well as to have them available online for myself. I use this when collaborating with others as a way to share the progress rather than the actual data, and to have a record of the various incarnations of the track. It's a lot quicker than soundcloud, for example, and even seems to sound better to me.

So I'd say definitely don't scrap it. But I also don't think it's the best way to approach a true collaboration model, though it could remain a part of the process as a way to post mixes. As you have already mentioned, it was so easy to collaborate with the original file format, so I've been hoping for some time now that they would create a better system of collaboration within the current paradigm.

For example, you could share files that were audio based while retaining the data on your own system. This would allow you to share your tracks even if others didn't have all the REs you did. If they DID have the REs, they would open the files exactly as you saved them, but if not then audio tracks would replace the track data - until they returned the track to you, in which case the original tracks would open as saved. This could apply to FX sends as well, which of course would limit the person without the RE from modifying those FX, but would still allow them to hear things exactly as you did. They could then add their tracks or even change the levels, EQ/dynamics, etc. on these tracks - just not the MIDI data or the RE controls.

Anyway, I'm rambling here, but I've long been thinking of ways around the recent "limits" imposed on collaborations by the new RE format. I could go on, but I'm already beginning to go off topic here.
:)
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Raveshaper
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16 Nov 2015

There was a clause in the terms of service that clearly stated in bold text that Discover was not intended for working professionals who wanted a collaborative DAW environment, or some such wording, but it has since been redacted out of the terms.

I would venture a guess that this means they are developing those professional grade collaborative aspects for a future version. You can search the forum for older threads that have the original terms pasted in to read the bit about "not intended for professional use".
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EnochLight
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16 Nov 2015

I don't use Discover much, but I use the shit out of Drop to Prop - similar to how Selig uses it. I share private links with people I need input from, and I use it to preview mixes in my car and on various other systems without having to go through the hassle of slapping it on my actual iPhone.

Once it supports multitracks and lossless compression, it could be a game changer for collabs though. Assuming the licensing issue is a bit tighter...
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dioxide
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16 Nov 2015

sinnerfire wrote:I am a bit confused about Propellerheads Discover
Aren't we all?

If they wanted to build a huge web server driven project they had the chance to allow users to share patches and Reason songs on their website. But instead they wanted to be Soundcloud for people who sing into their phones.

Resonator
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16 Nov 2015

Discover sucks donkey dick, and they should scrap it in order to pool their resources for more useful things.

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gak
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17 Nov 2015

Exowildebeest wrote:I think it's intended as a social-media-bandwagon-marketing thing, for the generation obsessed with the concept of "sharing".

"Musical collaboration" is just a veil for that.

In this role as a marketing tool, it might be very successful. Fine by me. I'm not looking for a collaboration service anyway. The people genuinely looking for that, might indeed not enjoy Discover in its current state.
I think it's "half baked" and I think that if we shipped a few cases of "red bull" to their offices, we might get quicker results. :puf_bigsmile:

Tagging needs to be a bigger "thang" and honestly I'm surprised it hasn't been taken more seriously. Biggest drawback I can find.

Also, seems that in it's current form (maybe I'm just not understanding) there is just the "post it and wait" syndrome vs the "tagged project, add, add credits" option. That again would be peachy.

Now, if some posts something tasty (me for example :mrgreen: ) and a bunch of people like it and add their own creativity to it, it really gets lost in the shuffle. That sucks. I want people to build on it, even if I don't like it, they are the ones inspired and it should be taken from there.

Did I mention tagging being important? :x

Also, there should be a little button to be used as an "as example" tag. (man, I've beaten THAT dead horse! :lol: ) Like, if you just want reason to post up on the discover site for a bug/issue/etc. Discover should be cool for that too.

Half baked. But, better than raw dough imho.

stephensmattlee
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17 Nov 2015

Have to agree with a lot of the comments on here. I've never used Discover because it's never appealed to me, despite that though I do like the idea of a nice easy service where you can work and collaborate with like-minded people. As others have said it would be better if you could share the actual Reason session files and if there's any RE's that the other person doesn't have then have it bounce it down as audio in its place so they can still hear the track as you did and work with it.

To me in its current form it does just appear like a soundcloud service where you can just share little ideas but not really collaborate in the full sense of the word

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 Nov 2015

I am sure they will add Creative Commons to it one day. My first reaction the day they released Discovery. I am 100% sure they will add that.

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selig
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17 Nov 2015

I really hope they don't just scrap it - I don't see any reason for that even if some here don't use it!

BTW, another way I use it is to start with Take ideas and import them into Reason (via Discover) to use as guide tracks. Again, I've found it quite useful for my own purposes, and this functionality (as basic as it is) is still something I can't do easily with other solutions.
:)
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Marco Raaphorst
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17 Nov 2015

I would like to see it taken to a professional level. Why selling refills and re's but not make a market place for session musicians? It could build on the shop idea. That would be cool.

I kinda don't like the mentality of selling software and sounds for money, but give away the music (which I consider as THE most important thing) for nothing and without copyright. That's like crazy in my opinion.

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mcatalao
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17 Nov 2015

Marco Raaphorst wrote:I would like to see it taken to a professional level. Why selling refills and re's but not make a market place for session musicians? It could build on the shop idea. That would be cool.

I kinda don't like the mentality of selling software and sounds for money, but give away the music (which I consider as THE most important thing) for nothing and without copyright. That's like crazy in my opinion.
Was trying to write this and the freaking post is gone with the wind!!!!

Have you seen the presentation for protools cloud, or whatever it is called? Makes completely sense. I'm a bit sick of seeing the world thinking music makers should not do money from their craft. Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy and sick of commuting from being an IT consultant to being a musician, but I don't think companies like Propellerheads should be on that boat.

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 Nov 2015

haven't seen the protools cloud. but I guess that's a smart way to move. something to be expected.

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Shokstar
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17 Nov 2015

3. SHARING SERVICES – LICENSE
If you don’t use the sharing service, then you don’t need to read this section as it only applies to its use.
THIS SECTION ONLY APPLIES WHEN USING THE SPECIFIC SHARING SERVICE PLATFORMS PROVIDED BY PROPELLERHEAD. IT WILL ONLY APPLY IN RELATION TO MUSIC AND CONTENT THAT YOU ACTIVELY SHARE THROUGH PROPELLERHEAD’S SERVICES AND DETERMINES WHICH USE OF YOUR MUSIC AND OTHER CONTENT THAT YOU ARE ALLOWING OTHERS. BASICALLY, YOU ARE GIVING AND GETTING AN EXTENSIVE LICENSE FOR USE AND ADAPTION OF MUSIC THAT IS UPLOADED TO THE SHARING SERVICES.
3.1 You retain all of your ownership rights in the Content that you create or upload to the Sharing Services. However, by uploading Content you grant every user and Propellerhead a non-exclusive right to use your music (with the right to sublicense). The license includes a right to copy, reproduce, communicate to the public, distribute, prepare derivative works of, modify and adapt your Content – even for commercial purposes – in any and all media and distribution methods and to the extent permitted by the Terms of Service. The license applies worldwide and is royalty-free and irrevocable.
Because we offer an open music sharing service, we ask for broad rights, so we can publish files on the Internet, and so others can freely use the stuff that is posted. In kind, you’ll to be able to use everything you find on the service.
Know that even though you are granting broad rights to all, you always maintain ownership of your stuff.
We don’t intend to sell your content. Other people on the service might end up doing something successful with content they find and even make money from it (and so could you for that matter).
3.2 You understand that the Content uploaded by you may be used freely by other users, as well as included in the music, songs and Content of other users – even for commercial releases. You also understand that your uploaded music may be modified by other users of the Sharing Services without your prior approval.
3.3 The license to Propellerhead includes a right to use the Content to perform the Sharing Services and in marketing of the Sharing Services or Propellerhead. Propellerhead has the right to assign and sublicense the license.
We want to be able to highlight cool stuff we find.
Note: there’s a way for you to set your content to “unlisted” (in the Music section of your account). Your unlisted content won’t be discoverable by others, and we won’t highlight it. Unlisted files have secret links on the Internet and theoretically could be viewed if someone happens to get the secret URL.
You can always delete files, but know that someone could have already downloaded them before you deleted them.
3.4 You agree to and warrant that the Content is created, owned or duly licensed by you and that Propellerhead does not need the permission or license from any third party to use the described rights. You may not upload Content that contain third party copyrighted material, or material that is subject to other third party proprietary rights, unless you have the permission from the rightful owner of the material.
3.5 By uploading Content you further – to the extent permitted by law – waive any moral rights that may be vested in you as creator.
3.6 Content that you have uploaded may be removed from the Sharing Services on your request. Please note that such removal has no retroactive effect and that your license still applies to use of Content started before such removal.
3.7 As a user of the Sharing Services, you are granted a license in accordance with section 3.1 from each other user who uploads Content. You understand that Propellerhead is thus not the licensor and does not warrant or is liable in connection with your use of the Content. The terms in these Terms of Service limiting Propellerhead’s liability also apply to your use of the Content.

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joeyluck
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17 Nov 2015

I'm enjoying Discover. I haven't really been submitting or building upon much, but I do like to listen and explore!
I hope it continues to grow! Lots of cool new features as of recent.

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Skullture
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17 Nov 2015

Discover is a good thing imo. But propellerhead will need to improve this platform in order to attract some professionals. My impression is this: one single audio bar just doesn't cut it. Multiple layers would make this a way more interesting thing. Another thing i dislike is that you only get waveforms. Why not some midi signals? Why not include the racks themselves (i see a problem with compatible rack extensions, almost reminds me of the DLC system some videogame developers implement in their own software) ? Discover so far doesn't feel custom to Propellerheads software. I mean anyone can share a .wav file right? (wetransfer > discover atm lol)

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mcatalao
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17 Nov 2015


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Shokstar
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17 Nov 2015

it would be great to share Reason Session files too with an included Stereo bounce of the Song, or to choose to get the Session file separately :)

For me works Discover to preview my Sounds with some Devs as an unlisted preview of a Synth or to share with some friends a preview of an upcoming Song. I´m saving a lot of time without uploading my stuff to Soundscloud.

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Marco Raaphorst
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17 Nov 2015

mcatalao wrote:
looks interesting!

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