If Props introduced a subscription plan for Reason................

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Vesterager
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Post 10 Apr 2015

This subscription thing is starting to sound like a "utility" the more I think about it. I surely hope that paying for my DAW does not go the way of TV and phone.

Yonatan
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Post 10 Apr 2015

For me, subscription in the way of "paying monthly for updates but if I stop, everything is taken away", no, that would be very stressfull way. But in the way of owning but still paying monthly could be prefered for some, as not all have that one amount of €129. But for some, also the option to rent the Reason platform for a limited time, could be usefull for some producers who knows what they are doing and what they need for each project or record. For us other more loyal or continual Reason users, that would not fit well. I can see that different options could fit different people. As long as those options are really well organized and structured and clear, I see no "reason" to why not give different needs what they want.

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joeyluck
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Post 10 Apr 2015

With the arrival of the ridiculously discounted Rig Bundles, I would say this isn't too far off...
It could serve as an additional option to purchasing.

It could be something like a yearly subscription at a price that most, including myself, would probably ignore. But would serve a purpose for those users who want EVERYTHING in the Reason rack and would still save them a tremendous amount of money.

Or there could be subscriptions similar to the Rig Bundles, whereas, I could subscribe for a year to have unlimited access to anything released as an 'instrument.'

Not a bad idea as long as it's not a replacement to purchasing, but just another option...

Yonatan
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Post 10 Apr 2015

Why I think many are resistant against subskription is because of how it has been handled by some companies, excluding many users. One example is the Adobe suite. Apple still has their Final Cut Pro as in the ordinary software. But the too fast trend with everything forced to go online in "the cloud" and subscribe to get access, that excludes a lot of ordinary people, who are not sitting in a media hip big city complex with a good monthly wage and an ever-flowing highspeed Internet-connection. That is as seen in commercials about modern city life, but that is not the reality for the majority, at least not constant access to Internet.
Cloud-service is great at certain things, but it is too insecure and imature as yet, to push ppl everywhere to suddenly live up on the clouds. It sounds so modern and fits the image of the modern big city life, but just as the banks are pushing away services with concrete money in favour of Visa-card or worse, only payments via smartphone apps. We are not there yet where that is safe and sound, and that is what the companies have to realize. As long as new technologies comes in without excluding and causeing new hinderances instead of the "free flowing" that they imagine will occur, then I am all in for trying new ways, just if keeping it in accordance with reality. So let there be backwards compatibility and options that suits more than one priviliged inner city group. I do live in city but I know how shakey it can be to "reach the clouds". i still think some nice old USB-storage feels great until other options are more stable.   

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JNeffLind
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Post 10 Apr 2015

I'm one of those people who abhors not owning what I use. Never buy on credit and try like hell to avoid any payment plans or subscriptions. Selig makes a decent point that if the subscription were say 5-10$/month and so it came out to equal or less than the full upgrade price per year, I might be enticed, but I'd still worry the price would change or the company would falter, etc.

Even if it was a dollar a month I'd be nervous. If something I use is integral to my happiness/productivity, I want to have as much confidence as possible that no one (or thing, like low internet connectivity) can take it from me.

Yonatan
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Post 10 Apr 2015

Guess we Reasoners are mostly more stable-seeking ppl when it comes to music creation. We want to know and trust that it works. That is one of Reasons main selling points, that PH take care of the fuss under the buss (but still letting us have so much control that we are able to come and at least see the cables connected), so we all can have a pleasent buss ride and not being constant tense that something suddenly will crash or vanish. Like a swedish old volvo from the 70´s. 

stxlm
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Post 10 Apr 2015

Yes, of course. It might be more expensive in the long run, but hey, I've spent more on RE:s than I've spent on Reason updates since version 2.

A) They have me hooked. It's a sizeable investment. (In things that I love to use.)

B) I don't want to be without Reason.

I thought people were here because they love Reason? It doesn't look like it, from reading the comments.

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JNeffLind
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Post 10 Apr 2015

stxlm wrote:
I thought people were here because they love Reason? It doesn't look like it, from reading the comments.
You're making quite a leap of logic here.

Let's say you currently own your house, someone says from now on you pay for your house every month. Have a problem, you don't love your house.

You currently own your clothing. Someone says from now on you have to pay for your clothing every month. Have a problem, you don't love your clothing.

Or maybe you just don't want to pay extra for what you already own...

Loving Reason has nothing to do with it. It's about a lump sum vs. endless payments. Nothing more. 

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gak
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Post 10 Apr 2015

This has popped up at every single forum/host board.

The only thing I can say is that I don't like the system. It's basically a front-loaded design where the cash is paid, but there is no "timetable" to update/etc. 

Will I do it if it happens? Idunno. I already paid for my version so I'd probably be a little b..thurt by it.

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eusti
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Post 10 Apr 2015

As said before I don't like the system of subscribe software... From what I read the new Protools was underwhelming...
As well Photoshop CC has only added very few features during its existence...
So, I have not yet seen solid examples for the standpoint of "the developer then can continuously update the program with great features"...

D.

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Soft Enerji
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Post 10 Apr 2015

The Tone Ranger wrote:I can't see it happening, doesn't fit well with the RE license agreement. Buy RE for life but you can't use them unless you pay your subscription fees.
This is a very good point!

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selig
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Post 10 Apr 2015

lowprio wrote:
selig wrote:Since this is a speculation thread…
For those that are against subscription models, are you saying you would NOT go for a $1 a month subscription? Because if you say yes, then (as they say) now we're just haggling over the price. ;)
lowprio wrote:  
oh yeah, and what if they mail out candy and gold bars to all subscribers? if you say yes, then it's just a matter of what content is included in their subscription service!

(or how about we don't bring up hypotheticals just for the sake of being difficult   ;) )
The entire thread is a hypothetical - why is my one post any different? 
;)
Selig Audio, LLC

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JoshuaPhilgarlic
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Location: Munich/ Germany

Post 10 Apr 2015

Props didn't give even a hint that they plan to introduce subscription. So as long as they don't it's useless to think about what I do when they do so.

ckingram2006
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Post 10 Apr 2015

Subscriptions in software is a great way for companies to generate income but it is the worst thing that has ever happened to the consumers. Keep in mind that a subscription is a bill and every subscription that you sign up for is another source eating revenue. So the more companies that you have subscriptions with the less money you are generating monthly from your music (if music is more than your hobby). So what this means is that most consumers including myself will be forced to limit the tools that i work with and im forced to decide which tools are most valuable to me and my business. So to answer the question on if I would support a subscription model. It all depends. If I decide thhat Reason will be my main tool going forward then I probably would but I cant say that i would be happy. What I would not support is a model that forces a license surrender when going forward with a subscription (i.e. Protools).


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gak
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Post 10 Apr 2015

The Tone Ranger wrote:I can't see it happening, doesn't fit well with the RE license agreement. Buy RE for life but you can't use them unless you pay your subscription fees.
Soft Enerji wrote:
This is a very good point!
Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Indeed a good point.

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Iapetus 9
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Post 10 Apr 2015

I've said it before and I'll say it again- I stopped at CS6 with Adobe, and I'll stop at whatever version Reason is on if they go that route. I don't like to prognosticate doom, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it happened.

Is Reason a complete enough DAW to even suggest subscription fee's? Not when RE's are still throttled and restricted by the code it isn't. YMMV.
38L > 51D every time.

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Orion
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Post 10 Apr 2015

Absolutely NOPE.

Just seeing the topic on here gives me bad vibes.

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Soft Enerji
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Location: East Lismore, NSW Australia

Post 10 Apr 2015

JoshuaPhilgarlic wrote:Props didn't give even a hint that they plan to introduce subscription. So as long as they don't it's useless to think about what I do when they do so.
Yeah but the issue was raised in the Reason 8.2 Update thread so I figured it would be interesting to see how it would go down if it do actually happen. Like a lead fart it would seem :)

GRIFTY
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Post 10 Apr 2015

there's no chance in hell I would even consider it

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Rook
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Post 10 Apr 2015

In my opinion, the subscription model would only conceivably work for "industry standard" pro software...ie Pro Tools, Photoshop, etc. Of course, Reason can be and IS used for professional work all the time, but I think most will agree that it's never been specifically marketed to that kinda crowd. Quite the opposite, Props have done a lot of work to brand it as music creation software for the "every man/woman". They've even resisted labeling it as a "DAW". So, I think they're smart enough to know that a subscription based model would be tantamount to suicide. I can't see it ever becoming a reality.

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InDeLiBLe
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Post 11 Apr 2015

This is a post from gearslutz forum about Cakewalk Sonar subscription plan:

What is SONAR Membership?

Our innovative new Membership program means you'll receive all the latest features as soon as they're ready! There's no more waiting a year or more for the next paid SONAR upgrade; you'll be notified the instant new updates and customized content downloads are available in Cakewalk Command Center. Members are also entitled to free technical support and discounted Membership renewals. Best of all, after 12 months of SONAR membership you get to keep everything you've received - even if you choose not to renew.
 
Is this like a subscription? Adobe Creative Cloud and other software with "subscription" models won't let you keep anything.
 
No. The big difference with our model is that after your first 12 months of SONAR Membership you get to keep everything you have received. 
 
If I choose Monthly Membership payments, can I cancel before 12 Months?
 
Yes, but 12 consecutive monthly payments are required to permanently activate SONAR and any updates you have received. If you cancel payment or don’t pay for at least 12 months, SONAR will revert to demo mode. This means you can’t save or export projects, however anything you saved up to that point will still open and play in the demo. Once you resume payments, you can make new edits and save them. 
 
What happens when my SONAR Membership ends?
 
Once you've paid for 12 months of Membership (either up-front or monthly), you own SONAR and all updates received during your Membership period. You can then choose one of the following: 
 
a) Let your Membership lapse, and receive no further membership benefits.
b) Continue paying monthly. Membership auto-renews at the Renewal rate.
c) Pay up-front for 12 more months of Membership at the Renewal rate. 
 
 
If I let my Membership expire after 12 months, can I renew it again later?
 
Yes, you can come back any time and pay the Renewal rate. If you choose to renew Monthly payments, you will need to complete an additional 12 consecutive months to permanently activate the latest update you have received.
 
SONAR Artist, Professional, and Platinum each have a different monthly cost. Does that mean they each get different product features and content with Membership?
 
Yes. During a 12-month Membership all versions receive multiple product and content updates, however SONAR Professional Members will have additional features and content, and SONAR Platinum Members will get the most new features and content. 
 
 
Will I still get patch fixes even if I'm not an active SONAR Member?
 
No. You will need an active SONAR Membership to receive fixes and updates, but remember that customers who purchase up-front, or purchase at retail, automatically receive 12 months of Membership. During that time you’ll be receiving regular fixes, updates, and new features. And that means SONAR customers will now get more updates than ever before. 
 
Can I buy the new SONAR without membership?
 
No, but if you prefer, you can purchase the new version with a one-time payment (just like before) and ignore all the great updates. Membership Benefits are included with all versions to ensure that every SONAR user has the latest and greatest version for at least 12 months after they purchase. Gone are the days where you might purchase a SONAR Upgrade to find a new paid Upgrade just a few months later. 
 
Will I still get tech support if I'm not an active SONAR Member?
 
Technical support is available for active memberships only. If you pay upfront, you'll receive phone and email technical support for a full year after your purchase while your SONAR Membership is active. If you pay monthly, phone and email technical support will be available as long as you have an active membership. If you cancel and renew your membership at any time, technical support will be available again when your membership is renewed. 
 
What do you think about it? For me this is ridiculous. :s0959: :s0959: :s0959:  

avasopht
Competition Winner
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Post 11 Apr 2015

What about if they offered a slow buybuy (I.e. installments until purchase), with a discounted constant upgrade subscription service, ...

Technically it's the same as a subscription but you get to keep the most recent major upgrade once you've fully paid for your software :)

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submonsterz
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Joined: 07 Feb 2015

Post 11 Apr 2015

Again I'd say a big fat no.
They for one would not make it cheaper than as is for one simple fact it costs more to set up and run such systems.
They would have to employ more coders to up thier quantity of feature injections.
They are too small as is to put more into reason they have too much of other things going at the same time.
I think props would end up imploding if they introduced such a thing and kept what is going as well. Or as I say hike the costs to users making it less attractive by having to pay the extra over heads and most certainly employ extra staff per workload increase.

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platzangst
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Post 11 Apr 2015

I wouldn't rule out the idea entirely, myself, but it would have to be fairly low-priced for me to even consider it. As it is, when an update comes out, I can choose to buy or not, and when, as my finances allow.

If I'm short on cash, I can hold off for a few months and upgrade when it's convenient. On a subscription model, I would have to wrangle a periodic payment on a regular basis, on a fixed timetable, whether or not it was convenient, or have my software expire. That's one thing for rent and utilities and such, but for a musical tool? No thanks - unless the price is so low and so good as to compensate for such inconveniences. I prefer to pay what I can, when I can, and then not have to worry about it.

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RFX
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Location: Germany

Post 11 Apr 2015

I'd absolutely not subscribe if they did. I hate subscription plans, and to be honest, it seems illogical, since you'd still need to buy REs, but unlike VSTs, you can't use them anywhere else, so if you were to switch to another DAW (which could happen), you'd lose a lot of stuff. Well, you'd still kinda do, but it wouldn't matter, since you can always start the bought copy of Reason whenever you want. 

Also, personally, I think it's better to save up for a software and then just buy it. I mean of course, you'd get all the updates, but if you buy (for example) Version 7 and don't want Version 8, you don't need to upgrade. That also means you don't have to pay any extra money.

It might be useful for maybe a collab (or just to try making a few songs), but other than that, I don't see much of a purpose behind that.

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