Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[antic604]

So someone asked about how the launch and reception of Reason+ compared with the launch of Presonus Spehere...

That might've been me. Or not. Hard to remember where I posted what in the last 12 hours

Anyway:

1) Sure, Ok. But we know Reason 12 is coming with high-res, new devices & features - that much was clearly stated.

2) You don't know they won't change this. The sub is paid in a monthly / anuual cycle, so it's enough you need to access on the day the cycle ends, make the payments and then you should be able to use it for the next month (or year) without access, because they already have your money. It's only been out couple of hours. Give them time.


It's really tiring to see people interpreting any inconvenience, unknown or uncertainty through the lens of malicious intent placed on RS. How are you living like this??

[Catblack]

Weekly Sound Packs sounds like the HPV of music production to me. Everyone's got some already and they aren't anything to be proud of.

[TritoneAddiction]

Like most people, after seeing the "Introducing Reason+" video my initial reaction was "NOOOOO!!! What the hell are you thinking???!!!" And it still is. The fear of course is that this is just the first step and that they'll eventually go subscription only. But honestly after seeing the entire Reason+ livestream and reading peoples reactions/comments everywhere I do believe they won't change the perpetual licence choice. And I'm not only talking R12, I'm talking later versions as well. After the absolute shitstorm of negative comments I don't think they would dare to do that. Sure RS are used to criticism and people complaining, but seeing the comments during the livestream was on a different level.

I do think that if RS had been more clear from the start, the reactions might have been a bit milder. If they clearly right off the bat communicated that normal perpetual lincenses and Reason numbers aren't going anywhere EVER, they would have been better off. Instead they released a short video not stating any of that. And then in the livestream it took them a loooong time to get to the license part. Sometimes it's better to just get to the point straight away without any fluff or small talk. Otherwise people will fill in the blanks themselves and let their own imaginations run wild.

Even though I kind of feel bad for RS right now. Man those Reason+ livestream comments were f***ing vicous. Perhaps it was necessary to not have them go full subscription later on.

For me I'll keep buying and support RS as long as perpetual upgrades is an option. Once that stops (if it ever does) I'll just stick to the last version and end my support right there.

[shropshirelad]

I'm a long term Reason owner. I update with each iteration. I've bought Complex, Parsec, Dummers, Guitarists, PX7, Bass, Piano, etc etc along the way. Studio One 5 Pro is my current preferred DAW & I enjoy using the RRP in this environment. I don't mind the idea of subscriptions - I subscribe to EWCC, ROON, Flickr, Netflix, SkySports etc and will probably move to Sphere soon. Everyone has their own take on Reason+ - mine is, that if the subscription was < £14.00 I'd go for it. At £20, I imagine that RS are going to struggle to get any subscribers in the UK. To even consider asking £240 a year is just ridiculous.

[PeterP]

I don't have a problem with them adding an optional subscription, but I do have a problem with them removing Suite (and Intro).

It feels like they copied Abletons naming scheme with Intro, Standard and Suite to lure us into thinking that there would be a higher tier where we'd get all their in-house devices for a fair price.

It was all there in the fine print, but I still feel tricked and it's not a good feeling at all.

They didn't just add a new option, they removed good options "to simplify our lineup". That's just bullshit.

[Popey]

Considering reason staff have been on this thread I would ask them to consider liaising with loyal followers to look at tweaks to the subscription model to make this palatable (eg. One years subscription 12x £20 payments Grant's you the current version full perpetual licence and perhaps one re of your choice, 18 months payments eg another further 6 months subscription enables you one more free re etc). That way if people commit to a year they are safe in the knowledge they own something.

Someone mentioned in another thread that track folders were first requested in 2008. But instead of track folders (and almost equally as good) just 13 years later Reason gets a subscription option. And now you are suggesting they should take less money for it. You don't see the absurdity of this communication? THAT'S why I think everyone's so pissed with them in the first place.

The "what's the fuss, it's just a bonus option" gang seems to have missed the point completely. After years spent on the RRP detour with the DAW being already years behind competition at that point, RS decide to just ignore their community and waste yet another year on NOTHING for the core users.

I might be totally wrong of course, and maybe they really can't update the sequencer. Maybe they really CAN'T update the DAW because it was coded in archaic Swedish runes and there simply isn't a rune for "full screen mode".

I was more thinking a lot of people dont want to pay and end up with nothing at the end. My suggestion was more thinking of other ways you could subscribe and get something back (which may mean you stick around and not cancel your sub), I know there are development costs and potentially updates/bug fixes but how much does it truly cost to give someone who has subscribed for a year a licence? If they then continue the sub and after more payments are eligible for a free re they are more likely to stay. Totally get that they havent listened to users on things like track folders but have not seen a launch be received by a company's users so badly for a long time so perhaps a turnaround in listening might be a wise idea. I appreciate they want more users but considering how lowly reason ranks in most online top 10 daw lists I am unsure why a new starter would choose it and even if they do how long they will stick around once they realise it is a fair way behind other competitors.

[helmutson]

The only thing I want to know is:
Is there a future for Reason as a DAW or will it shrink to a big VST, like NI Komplete for example ...

[shropshirelad]

The only thing I want to know is:
Is there a future for Reason as a DAW or will it shrink to a big VST, like NI Komplete for example ...

Ah, NI Komplete - there's another subscription incoming in the not too distant future! If you thought this launch was fun, just wait!

[linusminus]

I'm not really bothered by the subscription model as a whole. People are upset about the lack of new improvements. Or direction for that matter, with half of what they launch ending up discontinued. It feels like none of the updates the past 4 years has been for us users. I don't want new sound or devices; I want an up to date DAW, and I'm sure the majority of Reason's user base feel the same.

Sad about the state of my favorite application in the whole world. Why does everything have to make more and more profit? Wish things could just exist.

[DecafDreams]

Sad about the state of my favorite application in the whole world. Why does everything have to make more and more profit? Wish things could just exist.

I think this is the issue. We aren't just soulless users of an application like Microsoft Excel that's turning into Office 365.

This is an application that many of us actually have a profound love for and to see it commoditised like this, and our investment in it being used to turn us into the product - that is something that is actually quite painful. Especially given most of us, being artists, probably aren't the biggest fans of unbridled capitalism...

[danc]

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At a ratio of 2 to 1 not in favour for Reason+ on Youtube. And 240 out of 321 voted that they won't use Reason+ here on Reasontalk.......

I hope January 28th 2021 is a day of humble reflection and reckoning for the team at Reason Studios.

It was embarrassing.

It was ignorant.

It was commercial suicide.

It continuously sounded like not one of them had any PASSION OR LOVE for the subject of music making. They treated us like we were children using a kids toy - just tap that button and you can make amazing sounds. Thanks for totally disrespecting what is actually a creative, technical, and fulfilling hobby.

They made themselves look totally disconnected with their loyal fanbase.

I suggest that the next step for RS is to engage with their loyal fanbase and give real TLC. Seriously - wake up RS. Please look at Studio One features being announced on YouTube. You won't see 10,000 comments flying up the screen saying you are SH*T. It is because they listen and deliver to their customers. They are connected to users - and they don't call their users "THE INTERNET".

Yes - this is post number 4000 on page 50 something. I hope RS get one moment on this post and take stock.

[estuary]

...

260 likes / 1163 dislikes
right now

Terrible...

[Gothi]

I do think that if RS had been more clear from the start, the reactions might have been a bit milder.

No sht, mate We could have been primed much better. This could be a future textbook example of lesser prepared promotion. Well, some say negative attention is better than none, and as far as that concerns, they just succeeded

[xylyx]

They launched Sphere at the same time as launching Studio One V5 so there was something new for everyone rather than established users feeling a bit left out.

This seems the most bemusing part in all this. I'm not in marketing but I would expect that you would normally wait until you have a big update before making this sort of announcement - if they had their best ever year in 2020, then surely they could have waited for v12 to be ready? That way, current users get something to be excited about, while users of other DAWs get their interest piqued. This change to try to attract new users amounts to:

"Hey other DAW users, you know that DAW that had its last full version upgrade in 2019 and didn't make you want to switch to it then? Well, now you can get it for $20 a month with some plugins and sounds that you'll only own while you pay us!"

Is that really appealing? I guess we'll find out...

[miyaru]

They launched Sphere at the same time as launching Studio One V5 so there was something new for everyone rather than established users feeling a bit left out.

This seems the most bemusing part in all this. I'm not in marketing but I would expect that you would normally wait until you have a big update before making this sort of announcement - if they had their best ever year in 2020, then surely they could have waited for v12 to be ready? That way, current users get something to be excited about, while users of other DAWs get their interest piqued. This change to try to attract new users amounts to:

"Hey other DAW users, you know that DAW that had its last full version upgrade in 2019 and didn't make you want to switch to it then? Well, now you can get it for $20 a month with some plugins and sounds that you'll only own while you pay us!"

Is that really appealing? I guess we'll find out...

So right about it, we will find out though. I bought Reason 11 suite in November 2019 after leaving Reason at version 4. THat was a big step forward but now........

[deeplink]

They launched Sphere at the same time as launching Studio One V5 so there was something new for everyone rather than established users feeling a bit left out.

This seems the most bemusing part in all this. I'm not in marketing but I would expect that you would normally wait until you have a big update before making this sort of announcement - if they had their best ever year in 2020, then surely they could have waited for v12 to be ready? That way, current users get something to be excited about, while users of other DAWs get their interest piqued. This change to try to attract new users amounts to:

"Hey other DAW users, you know that DAW that had its last full version upgrade in 2019 and didn't make you want to switch to it then? Well, now you can get it for $20 a month with some plugins and sounds that you'll only own while you pay us!"

Is that really appealing? I guess we'll find out...

I must admit, I feel like this wouldn't have been the absolute pitchfork / shitshow debacle if they upgraded the DAW first, and then released a subscription programme.

[rorystorm]

My two cents:

One, while I've got nil interest at all in soundalike sound packs, a subscription service suits me better personally. I'd rather chip away each month and get all the lollies than pay a shit ton of money for an upgrade in one go and existential crisis over whether i should buy Friktion. And if that means long term I end up paying a bit more in total, well fuck. It's not like u have any better use for that $$$ anyway.

And two, come on. It's actually not that much money in the scheme of things. I mean, Tinder costs about the same at least where I live, and quite frankly I've got more dates from the music I make with Reason than I have with that bullshit.

And three, you know what, I hate 21st century corporate consumerist capitalism at least as much as the next aging hipster if not more, but give the Reason guys a break. I doubt very much they're on a yacht in a fjord snorting coke off of a supermodels tits right now. And if they are, good on them.

That's all.

[linusminus]

Sad about the state of my favorite application in the whole world. Why does everything have to make more and more profit? Wish things could just exist.

I think this is the issue. We aren't just soulless users of an application like Microsoft Excel that's turning into Office 365.

This is an application that many of us actually have a profound love for and to see it commoditised like this, and our investment in it being used to turn us into the product - that is something that is actually quite painful. Especially given most of us, being artists, probably aren't the biggest fans of unbridled capitalism...

It's sad, isn't it? I think companies like Image-Line, Ableton and Bandcamp are good examples of companies run by people who have dedicated their life to music and know its users. It's odd for such a niche product as Reason to be run by people with no insight or heart for it.

[sdst]

why the companion is always checked?

I am worried that this uses cpu

I would like to go back to the previous version

[Yonatan]

why the companion is always checked?

I am worried that this uses cpu

I would like to go back to the previous version

It will probably become clearer soon...

[DaveyG]

They launched Sphere at the same time as launching Studio One V5 so there was something new for everyone rather than established users feeling a bit left out.

This seems the most bemusing part in all this. I'm not in marketing but I would expect that you would normally wait until you have a big update before making this sort of announcement - if they had their best ever year in 2020, then surely they could have waited for v12 to be ready? That way, current users get something to be excited about, while users of other DAWs get their interest piqued. This change to try to attract new users amounts to:

"Hey other DAW users, you know that DAW that had its last full version upgrade in 2019 and didn't make you want to switch to it then? Well, now you can get it for $20 a month with some plugins and sounds that you'll only own while you pay us!"

Is that really appealing? I guess we'll find out...

Yeah, it's a much easier launch if you are saying "Hey, here's the new version of Reason and now there are two different ways to get it".

[Popey]

Capture.PNG

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At a ratio of 2 to 1 not in favour for Reason+ on Youtube. And 240 out of 321 voted that they won't use Reason+ here on Reasontalk.......

I hope January 28th 2021 is a day of humble reflection and reckoning for the team at Reason Studios.

It was embarrassing.

It was ignorant.

It was commercial suicide.

It continuously sounded like not one of them had any PASSION OR LOVE for the subject of music making. They treated us like we were children using a kids toy - just tap that button and you can make amazing sounds. Thanks for totally disrespecting what is actually a creative, technical, and fulfilling hobby.

They made themselves look totally disconnected with their loyal fanbase.

I suggest that the next step for RS is to engage with their loyal fanbase and give real TLC. Seriously - wake up RS. Please look at Studio One features being announced on YouTube. You won't see 10,000 comments flying up the screen saying you are SH*T. It is because they listen and deliver to their customers. They are connected to users - and they don't call their users "THE INTERNET".

Yes - this is post number 4000 on page 50 something. I hope RS get one moment on this post and take stock.

Hit the nail on the head. Sphere is about £14 a month includes collaboration with other users and the last version 5 included the majority of improvements in their users most frequently requested posts. I still think reason has better instruments but other areas it is sadly lacking. Highest I have seen reason in best top 10 daw online lists is 5th. Others offering cheaper subs are higher in these lists and appear to listen to their users requests so not sure why you would choose what appears to be the more expensive and worse ranked option if you are new to creating music.

[EdwardKiy]

It's actually not that much money in the scheme of things.


but give the Reason guys a break.

1. it's not about the money. it's catered to either new 'try it' users and those who have enough money to not care about the subscriptions costs anyway

it's the second part that's important.

2. they didn't deserve their break. It's time they were planted face-forward into the steaming pile of failure they produced. It's now become crystal clear that they don't respect their core user or their requests, referring to them as "the internet' or 'forum creatures that are always unhappy whatever we give them' during meetings, I bet.

It's like you're at the table with someone and you ask them to pass the salt. They give you pepper, bread, extra sauce and after another 3 years of asking for salt, they pass you a steak, even though you're vegetarian. You then proceed to ask them if they are hard of hearing or have a mental deficiency, to which they respond - 'of course not, you wanted the salt - correct? we hear you loud an clear! We're about to give it to you!". So your meal is completely stale at this point, you've lost appetite and are thinking about the money and time you've thrown away on this meal, but STILL NO SALT. So you are about to take up and leave when that person suddenly shouts: "hold on, don't go (and why are you so angry?) ! Here it is - what you asked and what you wanted!!!" - and they pass you a spare spoon. Naturally, you tell them to go f themselves, so they stand up and say:

"You are so negative, we just can't win with you, we tried so hard but anything we do is just not enough for you! I guess we can't win with everybody!"


RS, if you're reading - you've dropped the ball on this one, sincerely. Should've just passed the salt.

[certifiedbeatz]

If anyone watched the launch video it look like a bunch of guys who have not seen each other in months. Ready to push there idea off on each other.. with no feedback from user's. The pandemic caused this because if you think for a minute that user's will go with a subscription for long time is crazy for anyone to compare to Netflix that crazy also..

More like Spotify or what have you.. so u never own anything and also is it royalty free? Your expecting people to pay for a streaming service such as TV? Then services such as Netflix which most watch TV 60 to 70 percent of the time. Then music service such as Spotify which you play all day.. those cost you 100 a month. now $20 a month for something you use 5 hours max a week.. sorry this will be a failure and to watch that stream it should the disconnection there is. They are taking profits and gambling on a flooded niche market this would fail on shark tank like it will fail now.. why would I have my DAW online? Why should I..
why would I want to just try your software? And then lose my job and you take it away in 29 days. I know your going to say it's for those that can't afford $399.. well your wrong they could that why you had record sales. Now your gambling on a niche market which get smaller and smaller..

[danc]

It's like you're at the table with someone and you ask them to pass the salt. They give you pepper, bread, extra sauce and after another 3 years of asking for salt, they pass you a steak, even though you're vegetarian. You then proceed to ask them if they are hard of hearing or have a mental deficiency, to which they respond - 'of course not, you wanted the salt - correct? we hear you loud an clear! We're about to give it to you!". So your meal is completely stale at this point, you've lost appetite and are thinking about the money and time you've thrown away on this meal, but STILL NO SALT. So you are about to take up and leave when that person suddenly shouts: "hold on, don't go (and why are you so angry?) ! Here it is - what you asked and what you wanted!!!" - and they pass you a spare spoon. Naturally, you tell them to go f themselves, so they stand up and say:

"You are so negative, we just can't win with you, we tried so hard but anything we do is just not enough for you! I guess we can't win with everybody!"

That is it in a nutshell RS.

I often meet people like that... they say one thing and do something completely different. And they have the balls to say... but we do listen.

We have to decide how long we are prepared to accept it.

Thank goodness for RRP.