After using Ableton for a year, I'm going back to Reason.
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- Posts: 67
- Joined: 22 May 2015
I went on an external device spending spree last year (Elektron Digitone, Elektron Syntakt, Behringer Crave, Spice & Edge, Roland S1 Aira). Because of this, I figured it was time to really commit to Ableton (using Reason as a plugin). I've been using it for about 9 months now, and I have to say that during that time, whenever I opened the Reason DAW, it was always a better experience for me - more fun, more addictive, easier to use, and a faster creation process.
Yes...Ableton definitely has a much better sequencer...ok, it has more tools such as Midi transformation/generation...I agree, better support from my Novation Launchkey,..I know, a much bigger community...yes, definitely better as a live tool...yeah, better support for Elektron Overbridge...and with Ableton it's safe to walk the streets at night now Reg.
But...every time I opened Reason, I was creating something far quicker than I ever did in Ableton, and always having more fun doing it. I can't put my finger on why - the Ableton instruments and effects are all excellent, but using them always feel like work. The extra mouse-clicking to open Devices or Automation lanes feel tiring. Whatever complaints I have about Reason, it just seems to, I dunno, get out of the way of the creative process? With Ableton, it feels like you're almost fighting it, like you're doing an excel spreadsheet for your boss. Even the external devices feel easier to use in Reason (even though this took me a while to find the best way of using them with Reason), even though Ableton has more options for external gear.
Yes...Ableton definitely has a much better sequencer...ok, it has more tools such as Midi transformation/generation...I agree, better support from my Novation Launchkey,..I know, a much bigger community...yes, definitely better as a live tool...yeah, better support for Elektron Overbridge...and with Ableton it's safe to walk the streets at night now Reg.
But...every time I opened Reason, I was creating something far quicker than I ever did in Ableton, and always having more fun doing it. I can't put my finger on why - the Ableton instruments and effects are all excellent, but using them always feel like work. The extra mouse-clicking to open Devices or Automation lanes feel tiring. Whatever complaints I have about Reason, it just seems to, I dunno, get out of the way of the creative process? With Ableton, it feels like you're almost fighting it, like you're doing an excel spreadsheet for your boss. Even the external devices feel easier to use in Reason (even though this took me a while to find the best way of using them with Reason), even though Ableton has more options for external gear.
Microtonal utility in ableton is the only reason I would leave Reason. It absolutely kills me that RS thinks everyone wants to make music in standard tuning and I already know they are gonna act like it's the next best thing when they implement it themselves, with cringe/cheesy marketing
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- Jackjackdaw
- Posts: 1446
- Joined: 12 Jan 2019
I am the same with Cubase. I use it for anything that Reason flat out doesn’t do and on paper I consider it to be superior but I always end up using Reason most of the time and giving them my money when it comes to upgrade time.
I've been using Ableton for about 4 months along with RRP and Reason standalone and the only way I can describe it is like either having an old familiar friend come visit wearing their usual colorful outfit with lots of interesting buttons and badge pins to look at or an acquaintance that wears a bland grey suit, doesn't communicate much but is really smart when you can get a conversation going.
Tend the flame
- stillifegaijin
- Posts: 265
- Joined: 27 Oct 2020
It’s because Ableton is straight up ugly. It’s not fun to look at so it’s not fun to work in. Why would you want to spend any more time looking at that grey screen than you need to?
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- Posts: 27
- Joined: 30 Sep 2018
I've been a Reason user since 2.0 and moved to Ableton a few years back, when Reason was able to be used as a VST.
As I became more skilled with Ableton, the economics of the annual subscription for Reason, just didn't seem worth it.
At one point we used to get a substantial Reason upgrade every 2-3 years for one upgrade price. If you subscribe for 2-3 years the offset is that you can buy a number of "industrial strength" or specific purpose VSTs for the same $. Especially during the annual Black Friday sales frenzy.
However, I took advantage of the recent Reason sale and re-initiated the subscription. For me, using primarly as a VST within Ableton, at the sale price, the value is again back, and it is like having old friends back.
Going forward, I'll continue to evaluate annually whether to renew based on the additions and improvements that are added to the product, against what else is out there.
Brian
As I became more skilled with Ableton, the economics of the annual subscription for Reason, just didn't seem worth it.
At one point we used to get a substantial Reason upgrade every 2-3 years for one upgrade price. If you subscribe for 2-3 years the offset is that you can buy a number of "industrial strength" or specific purpose VSTs for the same $. Especially during the annual Black Friday sales frenzy.
However, I took advantage of the recent Reason sale and re-initiated the subscription. For me, using primarly as a VST within Ableton, at the sale price, the value is again back, and it is like having old friends back.
Going forward, I'll continue to evaluate annually whether to renew based on the additions and improvements that are added to the product, against what else is out there.
Brian
- huggermugger
- Posts: 1531
- Joined: 16 Jul 2021
Reason's target audience wouldn't even be able to spell 'microtuning', let alone know what it is. And they certainly would have no use for it.Whoopdee wrote: ↑08 Jan 2025Microtonal utility in ableton is the only reason I would leave Reason. It absolutely kills me that RS thinks everyone wants to make music in standard tuning and I already know they are gonna act like it's the next best thing when they implement it themselves, with cringe/cheesy marketing
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I relate to the last sentence. I know what it is and have studied it and appreciate it - but have no use for it in my work. So knowing what it is and how to spell it doesn’t make any more likely I’ll use the feature.huggermugger wrote: ↑09 Jan 2025Reason's target audience wouldn't even be able to spell 'microtuning', let alone know what it is. And they certainly would have no use for it.Whoopdee wrote: ↑08 Jan 2025Microtonal utility in ableton is the only reason I would leave Reason. It absolutely kills me that RS thinks everyone wants to make music in standard tuning and I already know they are gonna act like it's the next best thing when they implement it themselves, with cringe/cheesy marketing
.
That said, since Reason synths CAN do some forms of microtuning, what I’m guessing many folks here are talking about is things like just intonation, as you can already easily do “popular” microtunings such as 19 (63.15%), 24 (50%), and 31(36.85%) notes per octave on many Reason synths.
Selig Audio, LLC
I like Reason because I like hardware, but prefer the simplicity of software. I use Live but never the built-in synths because their UI is just uninspiring. Flat design, and stuck in the lower part of the screen. That feels like a convenience and I think Ableton are not synth lovers.eiresurfer wrote: ↑08 Jan 2025the Ableton instruments and effects are all excellent, but using them always feel like work.
However, u-he (for instance) are synth lovers and using the synths in Live is for me as pleasing as in Reason
Till Reason has some kind of « session view » (as every other DAW now has) I can’t come back to Reason. It’s such a great composing tool
- SoundObjects
- Posts: 125
- Joined: 10 Dec 2018
Reason is dope.
Also using Ableton/Bitwig/Reaper I often return to Reason.
It´s fun - easy to use - good plugins - nice looking and
probably have the best documentations of all DAWs.
Also using Ableton/Bitwig/Reaper I often return to Reason.
It´s fun - easy to use - good plugins - nice looking and
probably have the best documentations of all DAWs.
The Universe Is Vibrating
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Hell yeah, brother!
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
Having started on Cubase (back in the 90s), gone to Reason, then Studio One, then Live, then Logic...
1 - I always go back to Reason for *something*.
2 - None of them do everything right, all of the time.
Logic in particular is really vexing me atm. It has so many great features but I loathe its MIDI sequencer. Adjusting velocities is so, so awkward as it's classed as an "automation" and exists as an automation point that you have to drag around, as opposed to the usual velocity bars that every other DAW uses. Also something like duplicating groups of notes next to each other inside of a region is vastly easier in Reason. I also greatly prefer its audio pitch editing and comping.
For me, the one thing that will always keep me working in Reason for at least some projects, is the automation. IMO no program does it better. In every other DAW I have to contend with stuck/hung automation values and manually resetting them. Or inconsistent/messy results when moving clips around with attached (but hidden) automation. I wish, so bad, that more DAWs would implement regions/clips for automation + static/return values. It would make life 100% easier.
The main things keeping me out of Reason full time atm are;
Folders
Automatic sync'ing of device/track order across all views
Note Chase
Custom init settings for plugins
Things I could live without but still really could do with;
Instanced clips
Keyswitch/articulation maps
Integrated step sequencer
Pattern clips (these are awesome in Logic)
But yeah, short version, every tool has its purpose. And I still love doing certain projects in Reason, especially sound design!
1 - I always go back to Reason for *something*.
2 - None of them do everything right, all of the time.
Logic in particular is really vexing me atm. It has so many great features but I loathe its MIDI sequencer. Adjusting velocities is so, so awkward as it's classed as an "automation" and exists as an automation point that you have to drag around, as opposed to the usual velocity bars that every other DAW uses. Also something like duplicating groups of notes next to each other inside of a region is vastly easier in Reason. I also greatly prefer its audio pitch editing and comping.
For me, the one thing that will always keep me working in Reason for at least some projects, is the automation. IMO no program does it better. In every other DAW I have to contend with stuck/hung automation values and manually resetting them. Or inconsistent/messy results when moving clips around with attached (but hidden) automation. I wish, so bad, that more DAWs would implement regions/clips for automation + static/return values. It would make life 100% easier.
The main things keeping me out of Reason full time atm are;
Folders
Automatic sync'ing of device/track order across all views
Note Chase
Custom init settings for plugins
Things I could live without but still really could do with;
Instanced clips
Keyswitch/articulation maps
Integrated step sequencer
Pattern clips (these are awesome in Logic)
But yeah, short version, every tool has its purpose. And I still love doing certain projects in Reason, especially sound design!
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: 08 Jan 2025
I know it may come across as a first world comment but I like using multiple DAWs.
I have and currently use Live, Bitwig, Reason and Pro Tools.
Pro Tools is mainly for work. ie. Audio editing mixing, compatibility with studios, production houses etc.
Live is great for song construction and getting ideas down. It's a very quick Daw to get an idea together.
Bitwig is for weird modulations, fine detailed note and phrase manipulation and sound design.
Reason is for the players, sequencing, modular environment and excellent synthesis effects. RR is great since you can bring those things to other Daws.
It might sound crazy but I just change it up all the time as sometimes the workflow/features can make you feel hemmed in. Switching it up just makes things feel fresh.
I'm a strong believer in the notion that there are very few truly bad DAWs out there. We're kind of living in a golden age of music production and sound design.
I have and currently use Live, Bitwig, Reason and Pro Tools.
Pro Tools is mainly for work. ie. Audio editing mixing, compatibility with studios, production houses etc.
Live is great for song construction and getting ideas down. It's a very quick Daw to get an idea together.
Bitwig is for weird modulations, fine detailed note and phrase manipulation and sound design.
Reason is for the players, sequencing, modular environment and excellent synthesis effects. RR is great since you can bring those things to other Daws.
It might sound crazy but I just change it up all the time as sometimes the workflow/features can make you feel hemmed in. Switching it up just makes things feel fresh.
I'm a strong believer in the notion that there are very few truly bad DAWs out there. We're kind of living in a golden age of music production and sound design.
I think we can all agree there are bad DAWs out there, bad songs, bad ideas, bad art, etc.whistletom wrote: ↑11 Jan 2025I'm a strong believer in the notion that there are very few truly bad DAWs out there.
The problems can come when we try to convince others which ones are the truly bad ones…
Selig Audio, LLC
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
I have a burning hatred for FL Studio lol Couldn't tell you why. I own a license. I just refuse to use it. Every time I try and learn it I'm like "this is quite literally the hardest way of doing this thing".whistletom wrote: ↑11 Jan 2025
I'm a strong believer in the notion that there are very few truly bad DAWs out there. We're kind of living in a golden age of music production and sound design.
But I'm also aware that's just my opinion. I just felt the need to share it
I will *fight* FL Studio. Right now.
FL Studio is an interesting one for me. I enjoyed working with it. I loved its flexibility and how easily you could bounce a loop to audio, chop it up, and use the slices as samples (something that's not too difficult in Reason but this was in the late '00s).chimp_spanner wrote: ↑YesterdayI have a burning hatred for FL Studio lol Couldn't tell you why. I own a license. I just refuse to use it. Every time I try and learn it I'm like "this is quite literally the hardest way of doing this thing".
But I'm also aware that's just my opinion. I just felt the need to share it
I will *fight* FL Studio. Right now.
It always felt like the Temu version of Ableton Live, and I didn't like the way it handled sample management (especially if there's lots of manipulation and creation of samples during a session). Maybe I'll feel different about it now, and it could have been improved.
But at the end of the day, it all comes down to what feels right for you.
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- Joined: 01 Jul 2024
Reason with RE and VST is pretty damn good, I really like it. It only needs a few tweaks and some long overdue QOL improvements to make it close to perfect for me.
The long standing and completely ignored feature request for time stretch in Octorex (originally DR Rex and NNXT although that doesn't matter as much anymore) is the one that stings most for me.
The long standing and completely ignored feature request for time stretch in Octorex (originally DR Rex and NNXT although that doesn't matter as much anymore) is the one that stings most for me.
- Jackjackdaw
- Posts: 1446
- Joined: 12 Jan 2019
I thought the whole point of rex files was to be an alternative to timestretch, which was at the time awful. Is the request coming from the desire to have a loop player you can drop wavs into? I can see the use in that, but I don’t think Dr. Octorex has that in mind. A rex file is made up of a bunch of wavs and a midi file that plays them in the right order.
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
My number one request for a new instrument would be something like Simpler or Logic's Sampler in slice mode. What I wanna be able to do is;Jackjackdaw wrote: ↑TodayI thought the whole point of rex files was to be an alternative to timestretch, which was at the time awful. Is the request coming from the desire to have a loop player you can drop wavs into? I can see the use in that, but I don’t think Dr. Octorex has that in mind. A rex file is made up of a bunch of wavs and a midi file that plays them in the right order.
- Import a perfectly cut loop (or have the facilities to edit/crop start end within the instrument)
- Fit the loop to the tempo either by time stretching or re-pitching (both are good for different things)
- Divide the loop by 4/8/16/etc.
- Have those divisions automatically mapped across the keys
That's it. Currently the quickest way to do this is;
- Import your loop and stretch it to the current tempo
- Use the new chop feature
- Select all the chops, bounce to new samples
- Create NN-XT and browse to song samples
- Drag those samples into NN-XT, auto-map chromatically, set ADSR to one-shot and polyphony to mono
Which works fine until you wanna change the tempo of your song or try an alternate loop. At which point you have to go all the way to the start of the process. You can of course re-pitch the samples by hand to match the new tempo but, it's imprecise and we shouldn't really be having to do that in 2025!
I don't know if this kind of thing is possible in the SDK for RE developers. I've also yet to find a VST plugin alternative that is as easy as Simpler or Logic Sampler. If there is something out there I've missed I'll use it! But an RE would be nice.
Also a Kong, Redrum, NN etc. MKII with time stretching like Mimics per pad/drum/zone would be so cool.
- Jackjackdaw
- Posts: 1446
- Joined: 12 Jan 2019
I know, it’s long! It’s just process though. Some people like staring at tiny screens and poking buttons on their digitakts and mpcs . Some people like entering a page of values in their tracker just to create a trance gate on a pad. I like chopping audio in Audacity, then slicing it in Recycle, then assigning chunk trigs on Kong pads.
- chimp_spanner
- Posts: 3070
- Joined: 06 Mar 2015
I do find joy in the process sometimes, but as I mentioned in the browser thread, time is just at a premium now (and I only see it getting worse in the future). So I'm just after things that save time, especially when it's already been perfected in other DAWs.
After reading 4 pages of the thread OP will go back to Live.
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That's why I like it. I always think it was designed for laptops.stillifegaijin wrote: ↑09 Jan 2025It’s because Ableton is straight up ugly. It’s not fun to look at so it’s not fun to work in. Why would you want to spend any more time looking at that grey screen than you need to?
Not sure about tired at looking at a grey screen since that became a trend in software.
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