R13 (.1) Browser woes

[ab459]

Frankly i wanted to complaint about browser "indexing" too (and see that topic exists already). Just, with R13 couple last days and noticed that every time after start there is stable CPU eating (100% usage) of two cores (from 12 cpu cores). And this continue really long time after start. Although i would not say that i even have big library.
And need note, it occurs with no HDD activity absolutely.
But seriously dev guys, this is really no go.
For example, now i sit already about half of hour with opened program and Win10 Task Manager lol, and CPU eating (because indexing) still works.
Hope this will be fixed.

Here was mentioon Ableton, with their forever indexing - yes, that classical. But in compare with R13 current behavior, Ableton indexing does not load CPU at least.

Edit: whereas i wrote, it change to use already 1 core, a bit better Ok.

In any case, obviously need improve indexing\rescan algo.

Edit2: Else, was hope that in RRP (i use it mostly) will be no this symptom, but bummer - all the same. It's just really not clear what this browser' process does.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Why add vsts to the shortcuts? Is that something I should be doing?

Nope> not in shortcuts, but constantly scanned anyway > as it was in the before times , on steroids. Once should be enough. Nothing changed.

Oh right! Crap

[moneykube]

All relevant vst2 plugins are now reinstalled >since that was not the problem, and many people's combinator 2 files and refills use them.
That was a fun waste of time.
Internal drive now has 243.06 GB available with (37.41 GB purgeable)
What is the best way to get rid of the purgeable files on Mac OS > and are they "really" needed on the drive?

[esme]

i like browser but it is very slow with lots of files and refils
indexign is done but still delay of 4 or 5 seconds when i choose each folder

[ab459]

Ok i got end of indexation process too, and in next runs it seems it passes pretty quick. (But was forced to remove almost all from shortcuts). And yes, still there is some weight feeling during simple folders browsing.
Ofcourse ideally would be cool to have ability to disable indexing, or somewhat have access to adjust it idk.

[Tiefflieger Rüdiger]

I have around 25.000 impulse responses but cannot tag them with the Reason 13 browser because it seems to stop selecting more than 1000 files and it simply rejects selecting anything when pressing Ctrl+A in a list with more than 1000 files:

R13-Browser-Selection-Issue.gif

What a frustration!

Regarding startup indexing performance: maybe an option to disable automatic rescan for some big folders would help. What do you think?

[chimp_spanner]

Is this happening mostly to windows users I wonder? I’m on Mac and my 8TB drive is just over half full (including libraries, project files, audio recordings, etc). I’m sure others have more sounds than I do but I feel like that’s a hefty amount of stuff to scan either way. And it seems fine. I do hope they get to the bottom of it soon. 13.1 was definitely a tease, getting a couple of new (and requested) features. I’d like more of that!

[selig]

I have around 25.000 impulse responses but cannot tag them with the Reason 13 browser because it seems to stop selecting more than 1000 files and it simply rejects selecting anything when pressing Ctrl+A in a list with more than 1000 files:

What a frustration!

Regarding startup indexing performance: maybe an option to disable automatic rescan for some big folders would help. What do you think?

I’m not here to tell you how to organize your files, but I personally would never have single folders with thousands of files I might need to search for specific things (I’d have things somewhat organized in sub folders, as with my oversized sample library).

I’m not excusing RS for not allowing this, but I also cannot imagine many folks have single folders containing that many individual files. For example, this never came up during testing.

Is the work around to tag them in groups of 1000, or is that ‘allowed’?

[jam-s]

For working around the 1000 files at a time limitation it can also be useful to use the "untagged" filter when assigning tags to groups of 1000 files. That way the already tagged files should disappear from the list.

[Tiefflieger Rüdiger]

I’m not here to tell you how to organize your files, but I personally would never have single folders with thousands of files I might need to search for specific things (I’d have things somewhat organized in sub folders, as with my oversized sample library).

I’m not excusing RS for not allowing this, but I also cannot imagine many folks have single folders containing that many individual files. For example, this never came up during testing.

My gif is made in German language, sorry I didn't realise that. Otherwise you'd have noticed that I'm in list view and not in tree view. The 25000 files are organised across a lot of subdirectories with multiple products from ~15 vendors. So it's not all in a single directory. Its just that everything within that single directory is an Impulse Response.

The issue I'm demonstrating however exists in list and tree view so it's independent of that.

Also, 25.000 files / ~18GB is by no means a lot, not even a decade ago. I have *much* bigger library directories than that and that's still a fraction against what colleagues and companies have. To put things into perspective, Zero-G's Total Rex library from 2006 (nearly 20 years ago) alone has 15.000 loop files.

Is the work around to tag them in groups of 1000, or is that ‘allowed’?

The workaround is to tag them in groups of 1000. Which is not easy to guess graphically and an attempt to select more than 1000 gives a wait penalty of 5 seconds. So the workaround is to run through hundreds of subdirectories and tag the content of each of these.

For working around the 1000 files at a time limitation it can also be useful to use the "untagged" filter when assigning tags to groups of 1000 files. That way the already tagged files should disappear from the list.

That might work for my small IR dataset. But I also have a directory with musical samples (drum hits, instrument samples), a Foley archive and a musical loop archive and these have more like 300.000 files per directory (organised in subdirectories). The suggested workaround is not feasible for such a dataset.

I could tag each of these with the right category in three seconds if I were able to just say what is in which directory. Going down the directory hierarchy, I could very quickly add more details like Instrument Name and so on.

[joeyluck]

Zero-G's Total Rex library from 2006 (nearly 20 years ago) alone has 15.000 loop files.

I wish I would've gotten this when it was still available. I guess a number of samples included in some of the libraries weren't cleared and Zero-G decided it was best to pull it along with those other libraries. I've been keeping an eye out on sites like Reverb, etc. I did pick up the Planet of the Breaks ReFill though during their recent sale, so I at least got that little piece of history Anyways, sorry to get off topic...

I agree that it is not uncommon to have as many files as you and more. I feel like I have a good amount, but it's nowhere near as much as some others.

[jam-s]

That might work for my small IR dataset. But I also have a directory with musical samples (drum hits, instrument samples), a Foley archive and a musical loop archive and these have more like 300.000 files per directory (organised in subdirectories). The suggested workaround is not feasible for such a dataset.

I could tag each of these with the right category in three seconds if I were able to just say what is in which directory. Going down the directory hierarchy, I could very quickly add more details like Instrument Name and so on.

I know, as I'm kind of in the same situation with more than 560k files in my sample collection from various vendors. And here's another thing that bugs me right now: So far it does not seem possible to (mass) add/edit the tempo information for samples and adding the tonal scale/key info is also something that's not (yet) implemented.
I really hope that at the end of the R13 dev cycle the integrated browser will be somewhat on par with old Loopcloud (5 or 6) feature-wise.

[Whoopdee]

RS devs managed to make Reason worse in 650+ days between the release of R12 and 13. What exactly were they doing between all that time?

[WOO]

Browser woes no more. I spent yesterday afternoon uninstalling old and no longer used programs. I uninstalled reason 8,10,12 and 13. I kept 11 suite. I then uninstalled all unused and trialed vst's and got rid of an old copy of cubase, i got for a hardware purchase, fl studio which i spent a fair amount of time with but never liked and another daw i trialed. After that i used the tools in windows to optimize my harddrive and delete leftover system files and other clutter. Then i organized my folders of midi, wav's, refills and loops into a more compact form. All in all i got rid of about 300 gigs of clutter on my 2 terabyte drive. I then turned off my anti virus software and installed 13 again. After reason installed i left it up and running from 5pm sat to 11am sunday. All the indexing appeared to be over. I'm happy to report that when i start reason for the first time now it loads in about 1 min. 40 seconds. And about the same time for the first song. Thats down from 3 5 MINUTES BEFORE. No more stutters and glitching while trying to playback songs. The sean murray demo song that comes with 13 i couldn't even playback without the dsp maxing out and glitching like crazy. Now plays back with the dsp only registering about halfway. So at last i can begin to use 13.

[dvdrtldg]

Browser woes no more. I spent yesterday afternoon uninstalling old and no longer used programs. I uninstalled reason 8,10,12 and 13. I kept 11 suite. I then uninstalled all unused and trialed vst's and got rid of an old copy of cubase, i got for a hardware purchase, fl studio which i spent a fair amount of time with but never liked and another daw i trialed. After that i used the tools in windows to optimize my harddrive and delete leftover system files and other clutter. Then i organized my folders of midi, wav's, refills and loops into a more compact form. All in all i got rid of about 300 gigs of clutter on my 2 terabyte drive. I then turned off my anti virus software and installed 13 again. After reason installed i left it up and running from 5pm sat to 11am sunday. All the indexing appeared to be over. I'm happy to report that when i start reason for the first time now it loads in about 1 min. 40 seconds. And about the same time for the first song. Thats down from 3 5 MINUTES BEFORE. No more stutters and glitching while trying to playback songs. The sean murray demo song that comes with 13 i couldn't even playback without the dsp maxing out and glitching like crazy. Now plays back with the dsp only registering about halfway. So at last i can begin to use 13.

You see? That's all it takes to get Reason 13 working properly. I can't understand why people are complaining

[moneykube]

You see? That's all it takes to get Reason 13 working properly. I can't understand why people are complaining

I did all that on mac ( it did not work ) I am still reorganizing some files on my external disk tonight. > but I did keep reason 12 installed so I could actually work at a normal pace when I don't have time for the unending indexing, and super sluggish behaviour.
"That's all it takes to get Reason 13 working properly." >>>> Come on man... I hope that was sarcasm ...this should not be a requirement...
Reason 13 was supposed to be a "work flow improvement", and not require extra work on your internal drive, and your external drive> just to get things to work "slightly" better. I have spent THREE > twelve hour days PLUS> or more > doing this nonsense. And yet everything with indexing remains the same > sadly. Reason 13.1 is 1000 times slower than any other version of reason I have Purchased.
Everything worked in all other reason versions It should just work >>> as it "WAS" advertised "AS" > " A WORK FLOW IMPROVEMENT ! "
Maybe one day ... but not today.
And no Joey I don't have time to do the beta testing thing... I have my own work to do.
A product should not be released under the guise of a lie. That was what it was... deceptive advertising yet again. THAT MUCH IS OBVIOUS.
They have done the same before with other issues in the past , so I am not surprised. I am disappointed and frustrated though.
Their terms do say they don't have to do anything they say or imply though. That was a "nice" fairly recent loophole they added to look the other way.
I even mentioned it here when they changed their terms to these Psychobabble Legalese Nonsense terms.
Everyone wrote it off as "every company does that"... nope... untrue for companies that don't lie. There are a few out there.
Do the people that wrote it off, still think that?... the one's with browser and other issues? I am quite curious.
Will this take 2 years like Reason 12 took to get rid of the bugs within it? Well most of the bugs anyway.
They needed money... simple as that. Who cares if we lie > it is in the contract we can lie, and you just have sit there and take it.
AND WAIT, AND WAIT, AND WAIT. Really we will fix it ... honest... but it is all on you > if you happen to believe us.
I tell it how it is... hate me if you want. I DON'T CARE ! Or maybe I am just implying I don't care... It's in my contract after all. SMH
By the way... That was me being "NICE" about it all. I could be WAY MORE blunt about all of this.
I guess I'll let the future wash all over me ... that's it from this whiny hoe "for now". LOL

[chimp_spanner]

Browser woes no more. I spent yesterday afternoon uninstalling old and no longer used programs. I uninstalled reason 8,10,12 and 13. I kept 11 suite. I then uninstalled all unused and trialed vst's and got rid of an old copy of cubase, i got for a hardware purchase, fl studio which i spent a fair amount of time with but never liked and another daw i trialed. After that i used the tools in windows to optimize my harddrive and delete leftover system files and other clutter. Then i organized my folders of midi, wav's, refills and loops into a more compact form. All in all i got rid of about 300 gigs of clutter on my 2 terabyte drive. I then turned off my anti virus software and installed 13 again. After reason installed i left it up and running from 5pm sat to 11am sunday. All the indexing appeared to be over. I'm happy to report that when i start reason for the first time now it loads in about 1 min. 40 seconds. And about the same time for the first song. Thats down from 3 5 MINUTES BEFORE. No more stutters and glitching while trying to playback songs. The sean murray demo song that comes with 13 i couldn't even playback without the dsp maxing out and glitching like crazy. Now plays back with the dsp only registering about halfway. So at last i can begin to use 13.

A minute+ to launch Reason is *crazy*. It's 4 seconds on the slowest of my 2 laptops. So I feel your frustration here - that's a lot of work organising and clearing up, although arguably it's a good thing to do from time to time. My old music PC is now just a gaming machine and between all the DAWs and libraries and plugins and device drivers still on there it feels like it's a 15 year old machine when it's only 3. Cannot WAIT to wipe it. But that's a bit of a tangent. Sorry if you've already stated but what are your specs and OS?

I do get why emotions are running high especially if people aren't able to use something they've paid for and for anyone not having problems, a little more understanding would go a long way. We're here to help each other. That said I genuinely don't think RS have spent the last few months thinking "how can we make it worse" or "how can we sell people a lie". It's obviously not *supposed* to do this. I think it's safe to assume most people aren't having such a terrible experience but I feel bad for the people who are. My suggestions would be;

- If you're really unhappy and you purchased within the last 30 days, request a refund and revert to 12 or
- If you're willing to ride it out and have a spare few minutes, sign up for the beta so they can examine your log files

I hope I'm not sounding dismissive of anyone's issues here btw. I myself have an outstanding bug caused by Logic 11 and the RRP and it's very much colouring my enjoyment of it. Standalone I'm having a way better time. All I can say is that from my experience of being in the Alpha and Beta test teams they're most definitely not setting out to make life worse. Maybe they need more testers because if these things don't come up, they won't get identified/fixed by launch. Live's tester pool is MASSIVE by comparison so they're naturally gonna encounter a wider range of possible issues, system configurations, etc.

[selig]

"That's all it takes to get Reason 13 working properly." >>>> Come on man... I hope that was sarcasm ...this should not be a requirement...

I hope THAT was sarcasm!

It is not a requirement, unless you only include yourself. It was not a requirement for me nor the majority of others, I’ve experienced very few and very small issues with R13, most of them during testing.

I do not feel lied to, just like I never felt they broke their promise as others claimed in past and very similar conversations. With any change you’ll have some that are happy and others that are not, that’s normal - and normal for the dissatisfied to be the most vocal.

What I’m not at all happy with is that they now publish to a “date” rather than to a completed feature set.

That said, I’ve never been 100% happy with ANY product/update during my time as a consumer in this world….

[chimp_spanner]

"That's all it takes to get Reason 13 working properly." >>>> Come on man... I hope that was sarcasm ...this should not be a requirement...

I hope THAT was sarcasm!

It is not a requirement, unless you only include yourself. It was not a requirement for me nor the majority of others, I’ve experienced very few and very small issues with R13, most of them during testing.

I do not feel lied to, just like I never felt they broke their promise as others claimed in past and very similar conversations. With any change you’ll have some that are happy and others that are not, that’s normal - and normal for the dissatisfied to be the most vocal.

What I’m not at all happy with is that they now publish to a “date” rather than to a completed feature set.

That said, I’ve never been 100% happy with ANY product/update during my time as a consumer in this world….

I remember one Cubase update was so bad, it pushed me over to Reason full time for like, several years lol I had no metronome for months. Was ridiculous. I've seen a lot of complaints about 14 as well.

But yeah like I said I think more than anything we just need more testers. Like a lot more. Because I can't remember anything this extreme coming up during testing.

[PhillipOrdonez]

It definitely was sarcasm, I laughed when I read it dv

This did came up during testing and they did resolve it with an update. At least for me it got fixed. I remember I was very busy and for a couple of days I just didn’t use the rrp and used others instruments instead cause I needed to make a few tracks for clients those days and didn’t have time to wait. Then they updated the beta and that fixed it and I continued working with the beta with no empty browser no more. That was like 4 or five months ago.

[ab459]

Btw if dismiss indexation theme i pretty liked new browser UI for example. (Although saw was complaints too, idk)

[selig]

Also, 25.000 files / ~18GB is by no means a lot, not even a decade ago. I have *much* bigger library directories than that and that's still a fraction against what colleagues and companies have. To put things into perspective, Zero-G's Total Rex library from 2006 (nearly 20 years ago) alone has 15.000 loop files.

Yup, I have that collection too, as well as many others and no problems here.
I copied them from the original disks, most folders have 50-100 files MAX in them.
I thought the whole problem was when you put over 1000 files in a single directory?

[Tiefflieger Rüdiger]

Also, 25.000 files / ~18GB is by no means a lot, not even a decade ago. I have *much* bigger library directories than that and that's still a fraction against what colleagues and companies have. To put things into perspective, Zero-G's Total Rex library from 2006 (nearly 20 years ago) alone has 15.000 loop files.

Yup, I have that collection too, as well as many others and no problems here.
I copied them from the original disks, most folders have 50-100 files MAX in them.
I thought the whole problem was when you put over 1000 files in a single directory?

I have thousands of files within a single directory, yes, but the files are within subdirectories. However, the categories and tags I want to apply to these files are based on a top-level directory, not the parent directory of the files.

For example:
Impulse Responses/LiquidSonics/Reverberate/*.wav
Impulse Responses/BOOM/Fields & Spaces/Alley 01 45m/*.wav
Impulse Responses/BOOM/Fields & Spaces/Canyon 01 Echo 0m/*.wav

I want to mark all those 25.000 files within "Impulse Responses" with the category "Impulse Response" so I can quickly filter for only those files in RV7000. This should be possible when switching to "flat" view which recursively shows all files of the directory you're currently in. But it's not possible to select more than 1000 files at a time and it's hard to graphically select not more than that anyway. Same for my music samples directory, same for my music loops directory, same for my foley archive directory.

[WOO]

Browser woes no more. I spent yesterday afternoon uninstalling old and no longer used programs. I uninstalled reason 8,10,12 and 13. I kept 11 suite. I then uninstalled all unused and trialed vst's and got rid of an old copy of cubase, i got for a hardware purchase, fl studio which i spent a fair amount of time with but never liked and another daw i trialed. After that i used the tools in windows to optimize my harddrive and delete leftover system files and other clutter. Then i organized my folders of midi, wav's, refills and loops into a more compact form. All in all i got rid of about 300 gigs of clutter on my 2 terabyte drive. I then turned off my anti virus software and installed 13 again. After reason installed i left it up and running from 5pm sat to 11am sunday. All the indexing appeared to be over. I'm happy to report that when i start reason for the first time now it loads in about 1 min. 40 seconds. And about the same time for the first song. Thats down from 3 5 MINUTES BEFORE. No more stutters and glitching while trying to playback songs. The sean murray demo song that comes with 13 i couldn't even playback without the dsp maxing out and glitching like crazy. Now plays back with the dsp only registering about halfway. So at last i can begin to use 13.

A minute+ to launch Reason is *crazy*. It's 4 seconds on the slowest of my 2 laptops. So I feel your frustration here - that's a lot of work organising and clearing up, although arguably it's a good thing to do from time to time. My old music PC is now just a gaming machine and between all the DAWs and libraries and plugins and device drivers still on there it feels like it's a 15 year old machine when it's only 3. Cannot WAIT to wipe it. But that's a bit of a tangent. Sorry if you've already stated but what are your specs and OS?

I do get why emotions are running high especially if people aren't able to use something they've paid for and for anyone not having problems, a little more understanding would go a long way. We're here to help each other. That said I genuinely don't think RS have spent the last few months thinking "how can we make it worse" or "how can we sell people a lie". It's obviously not *supposed* to do this. I think it's safe to assume most people aren't having such a terrible experience but I feel bad for the people who are. My suggestions would be;

- If you're really unhappy and you purchased within the last 30 days, request a refund and revert to 12 or
- If you're willing to ride it out and have a spare few minutes, sign up for the beta so they can examine your log files

I hope I'm not sounding dismissive of anyone's issues here btw. I myself have an outstanding bug caused by Logic 11 and the RRP and it's very much colouring my enjoyment of it. Standalone I'm having a way better time. All I can say is that from my experience of being in the Alpha and Beta test teams they're most definitely not setting out to make life worse. Maybe they need more testers because if these things don't come up, they won't get identified/fixed by launch. Live's tester pool is MASSIVE by comparison so they're naturally gonna encounter a wider range of possible issues, system configurations, etc.

After I start reason for the first time and after loading up the first song any subsequent songs I load up takes mere seconds as well. I have noticed a performance boost in 13 versus 12 and 11 suite. 12 for me was always a problem child so I didn't think twice about deleting it. I kept 11 suite because I collaborate with someone who has only 11. Overall the browser is an improvement from 12 but for the first time in years I had to open up the manual.

[AnotherMathias]

It's very clear that we are talking about two very different things:

1. Something is wrong with the browser indexing function, which is taking forever and slowing everything down.
2. The new browser layout and functionality is a big step down in quality of life, and is causing Reason to be cumbersome and unpleasant to use.

I'm firmly in camp #2. In my case things work perfectly, the DAW opens up in 4 seconds, and indexing worked seamlessly from day one.
Problem is, that almost worse! While the people in camp #1 can rightfully expect the bugs to be ironed out, the poor design choices (at least IMHO) will possibly never be addressed.