Reason 13 has arrived: Release Notes

[PhillipOrdonez]

I don't get the issues with any of your screenshot examples posted here. None is better on 12. It's unclear to me what it is that you consider a problem or bad or worse than 12.

[Pepin]

Here are 4 pics, 2 of Reason 12 with just one synth and one little chord progression I just did on the laptop keyboard.

Then opening same project in Reason 13.

In Reason 13., the browser's width is at its absolute minimum, and it just so happens the synth I am using is tiny, but even in this best case combo scenario, you can see how much worse it is.

Then look at the gorgeous room we had to edit our midi, and no, dragging the bottom up to the top in Reason 13 and obscuring everything above is not the same thing and having to resize it all the time depending on circumstance.

If these two pics don't perfectly say what I am trying to convey, then nothing will, and we can just agree to disagree. I have no issue with any one who loves R13 just the way it is, as we are all entitled to our own opinions

I still probably prefer the ergonomics of Reason 12's sequencer overall, particularly on a smaller monitor.

But there are a few shortcuts that do improve the situation with Reason 13, if you haven't tried them.
These should let you keep the device palette closed, to regain some horizontal screen real estate:

• F3 shows/hides the device palette
• Ctrl+Shift+F gives the device palette keyboard focus and opens it if it's closed. You can type the name of a device, use the up/down arrows to select it, and Enter to create it. Then hide it with F3.

Also, shift+tab can be used to show/hide the piano roll. The most recent update improved things by preserving your custom zoom level (to auto-zoom, you can still double click a clip). By showing/hiding with a fully expanded piano roll, you can get somewhat close to the Reason 12 experience (though missing some features like moving clips from within the piano roll).

[Theo.M]

I don't get the issues with any of your screenshot examples posted here. None is better on 12. It's unclear to me what it is that you consider a problem or bad or worse than 12.

Well as said, if you don't get it, then we can just agree to disagree, I did say that. You are entitled to your opinion. Your post otoh seems to hint that you want to know what I consider a problem, well, in the browser one, the browser takes up half the screen at its smallest width, sits over devices, instead of neatly being stacked to the left and having nothing obscured, so you can edit as you go through patches. That one is the most obvious, it is literally a huge window, so were you trolling on that one? I have to ask. I mean you can literally see this massive obscuring window where before you could see the entire rack with the browser neatly snapped to the left LOL.

With the midi, the edit area of Reason 12 is literally double the size, and the notes can be made much bigger and still fit. R13 is much more cramped and "busy" looking. It's messy. It was once a very "neat" program.

BTW, poll here shows most not updating, and most not liking the browser...so, with this one I think I am in the majority.

[esme]

i like the changes editor and browser

[Theo.M]

i like the changes editor and browser

I am genuinely happy you do, as I like people to love their music making software. After all, we love making music, and I want everyone to enjoy it as much as they can.
However, in this case, this is why you will continue to use Reason, and why I will not continue to use it. C'est la vie.

[joeyluck]

I agree that the highlighting of selections throughout R13 is a bit too faint...

Whether it's the tracks in the Sequencer or just selecting items in the Browser, it's not the easiest to see. And the difference between a selected item and an item that you're hovering over in the Browser is not different enough.

I'd like to see the blue highlight brought back. Especially in a browser that is so plain with everything being grey, a little accent of color would be nice, and doing that with the selected item would be helpful.

[PhillipOrdonez]

I don't get the issues with any of your screenshot examples posted here. None is better on 12. It's unclear to me what it is that you consider a problem or bad or worse than 12.

Well as said, if you don't get it, then we can just agree to disagree, I did say that. You are entitled to your opinion. Your post otoh seems to hint that you want to know what I consider a problem, well, in the browser one, the browser takes up half the screen at its smallest width, sits over devices, instead of neatly being stacked to the left and having nothing obscured, so you can edit as you go through patches. That one is the most obvious, it is literally a huge window, so were you trolling on that one? I have to ask. I mean you can literally see this massive obscuring window where before you could see the entire rack with the browser neatly snapped to the left LOL.

With the midi, the edit area of Reason 12 is literally double the size, and the notes can be made much bigger and still fit. R13 is much more cramped and "busy" looking. It's messy. It was once a very "neat" program.

BTW, poll here shows most not updating, and most not liking the browser...so, with this one I think I am in the majority.

Well if you're on the majority...

I notice you seem to like working with the browser open. For me this is not an issue because i like having lots of screen real estate for what matters to me which is the rack and the sequencer. On the rack, having the browser open obscures nothing for me cause i have a way of working where the new browser when it is open, it does no harm. Of course i keep it closed and only open it when I need it, but that seems to be a me thing and thus a minority thing...

I have a button to load my fav instruments and that button is programmed to automatically close the device browser immediately after loading a device. Another button brings up the browser when needed and that button also closes the browser when the browser is no longer needed.


But of course given you like to work with the browser always open, then i can imagine why that would be a problem for you.

Thanks for your explanation on that front. I'm not trolling. I don't troll.

Regarding the edit view, you can make it full screen like it was before and still close it with shift tab like usual. So i still don't see the issue there either.

[jam-s]

When you drag the divider all the way up you can have the MIDI editor pretty much like before:

2024-07-10_Reason13_Midi.png (102.32 KiB) Viewed 4432 times

[Theo.M]

Well as said, if you don't get it, then we can just agree to disagree, I did say that. You are entitled to your opinion. Your post otoh seems to hint that you want to know what I consider a problem, well, in the browser one, the browser takes up half the screen at its smallest width, sits over devices, instead of neatly being stacked to the left and having nothing obscured, so you can edit as you go through patches. That one is the most obvious, it is literally a huge window, so were you trolling on that one? I have to ask. I mean you can literally see this massive obscuring window where before you could see the entire rack with the browser neatly snapped to the left LOL.

With the midi, the edit area of Reason 12 is literally double the size, and the notes can be made much bigger and still fit. R13 is much more cramped and "busy" looking. It's messy. It was once a very "neat" program.

BTW, poll here shows most not updating, and most not liking the browser...so, with this one I think I am in the majority.

Well if you're on the majority...

I notice you seem to like working with the browser open. For me this is not an issue because i like having lots of screen real estate for what matters to me which is the rack and the sequencer. On the rack, having the browser open obscures nothing for me cause i have a way of working where the new browser when it is open, it does no harm. Of course i keep it closed and only open it when I need it, but that seems to be a me thing and thus a minority thing...

I have a button to load my fav instruments and that button is programmed to automatically close the device browser immediately after loading a device. Another button brings up the browser when needed and that button also closes the browser when the browser is no longer needed.


But of course given you like to work with the browser always open, then i can imagine why that would be a problem for you.

Thanks for your explanation on that front. I'm not trolling. I don't troll.

Regarding the edit view, you can make it full screen like it was before and still close it with shift tab like usual. So i still don't see the issue there either.

With the majority comment I only meant that regarding the browser, i.e. so far most don't love the browser, I meant absolutely nothing otherwise or aimed at you.

Well I just watched the official R13 video, and the browser obscuring everything all the time was driving me crazy even in the video, so yes, I hate this browser with a passion, it's true. All they needed to do was add tagging to the current browser, and it was so perfect and beautiful as it was

Well yes, because I am often adding plugins, I have the browser open in both the compositional and mix stage, because the plugins are also displayed there, but obviously not with R13 I wouldn't. I would only open the browser for synth patches or to import audio, but even for that, for reasons I explained, it's a chore for me to use now.

Ok, if nothing else:

How about the fact that Reason is now the only major DAW in the entire world, yes, the entire WORLD, to not allow the main media browser to be docked on the side of the screen? Surely that says something? And to pull such a move out of the blue in V13, when all other DAWs have done whatever they can do *to* streamline their GUIs just so they CAN add a docked browser lol, that in itself says everything to me.

But, there's more. Reason is now also the only major DAW, on the other hand, to also FORCE docking of the audio and midi editors, rather than allow either or. They could have kept the previous full size page mode in, and added the new editing features to that as well. Options never hurt anyone. So even if you like the new way, how can options hurt to have it both ways and let the user decide, like EVERY other major DAW?

To *me* it looks like the dev decided to go against the grain just to be daring and different, and I find it somewhat comical despite how sad it is.

[Theo.M]

When you drag the divider all the way up you can have the MIDI editor pretty much like before:

2024-07-10_Reason13_Midi.png

I mean I said that, more than once, and I said dragging the divider up and resizing it for the needs of the occasion, is not the same thing. More steps. Full page is always the right size as it's the maximum size. You also disappeared the tracks lol. Yes, all DAWs do this, OR give you an option to open in full page mode like Reason was previously.

[Theo.M]

By the way, I would just like to make clear, I am in no way asking for RS to change anything back and for it to be exactly as it was without options.. I know a lot of people love the new style, and I would never want something for my own gain that would be of detriment to others. All I am asking for are options to be added back in to make us all as happy as possible.
The options would be 1) Dock the new browser to the left or right and streamline the tagging. An option in preferences. Easy. and 2) Another option in preferences to "open editors in separate full size window" or to that effect. 3) Darken the contrast of selected tracks. I don't think that could be a negative for anyone and 4) Add the blue theme back. To take an entire colour scheme away that has been there for multiple versions was pretty low.

[mcatalao]

When you drag the divider all the way up you can have the MIDI editor pretty much like before:

2024-07-10_Reason13_Midi.png

It's not completely lik before because you lose access to the trakk navigation on the left, as everything on the tool window was transported to the left side of the editor. Selecting multiple midi tracks now makes you go back and forward to the sequencer if you have the editor in full screen.

IMHO, with this option the editor and Browser should be attacheable and detachable modal windows as other daws, development softwar and so on do. We should be able to customize the behaviour of these windows. The browser focus on the rack or sequencer window is particularly maddening because you should be able to place wherever it is more useful, and be dockable.

[Marc Swing]

I also hate the new browser with a passion!

They could have just kept the old browser as it was and added a button with a function called "tag search" so that when you click on it, a floating browser comes up where you can search for what you are looking for in style of the new browser.

That compromise could have worked for me because then those who love to search through tags could have that feature and we/i who couldn't care less about that feature could just ignore that "button" and everyone could have been happy.

[Pepin]

When you drag the divider all the way up you can have the MIDI editor pretty much like before:

2024-07-10_Reason13_Midi.png

It's not completely lik before because you lose access to the trakk navigation on the left, as everything on the tool window was transported to the left side of the editor. Selecting multiple midi tracks now makes you go back and forward to the sequencer if you have the editor in full screen.

You also lose the top bar above the piano roll that let you manipulate the clip itself. I've mentioned this elsewhere, but it's not clear why you can still resize and timestretch clips from within the piano roll but have to switch back to the sequencer to move them. And deleting clips in the piano roll is technically possible using the rectangular razor tool, but I'm not sure if that's even intentional.

Ultimately, the "full screen" piano roll approach in Reason 13 requires more switching back and forth than Reason 12 did. Though on smaller monitors, it still might be better than the split view.

[Theo.M]

It's not completely lik before because you lose access to the trakk navigation on the left, as everything on the tool window was transported to the left side of the editor. Selecting multiple midi tracks now makes you go back and forward to the sequencer if you have the editor in full screen.

You also lose the top bar above the piano roll that let you manipulate the clip itself. I've mentioned this elsewhere, but it's not clear why you can still resize and timestretch clips from within the piano roll but have to switch back to the sequencer to move them. And deleting clips in the piano roll is technically possible using the rectangular razor tool, but I'm not sure if that's even intentional.

Ultimately, the "full screen" piano roll approach in Reason 13 requires more switching back and forth than Reason 12 did. Though on smaller monitors, it still might be better than the split view.

That's what I am saying, perfect example. The program is no longer as neat to look at and they've slowed workflow. Even that little thing of long longer having one click access to what plugins are displayed is gone. Now it's a double sub menu.

[Theo.M]

I also hate the new browser with a passion!

They could have just kept the old browser as it was and added a button with a function called "tag search" so that when you click on it, a floating browser comes up where you can search for what you are looking for in style of the new browser.

That compromise could have worked for me because then those who love to search through tags could have that feature and we/i who couldn't care less about that feature could just ignore that "button" and everyone could have been happy.

Yep, perfectly put.

[Neofolk]

The look of Reason is the least of the worries (I actually love the look of sequencer now in dark mode). The lack of simple daw features is the glaring problem for a lot of people. Year after year people ask for folders, markers and other QoL items. And year after year they are ignored. Try using a controller like Console 1 with Reason, it's a miserable experience.

Reason could be great, but it's now destined to fade into obscurity (it already has, really). But those of us who use it, know how good it is for some things, and how great it could be if they just regained focused. Instead, another synth, delay and a few other things that no one really asked for. I've been reading through various posts in a few places and many users are jumping ship. I subscribed for 1 month to try out 13 and I already canceled. Just no value in this update for me, and it seems, a lot of other users too.

[jam-s]

When you drag the divider all the way up you can have the MIDI editor pretty much like before:

2024-07-10_Reason13_Midi.png

It's not completely lik before because you lose access to the trakk navigation on the left, as everything on the tool window was transported to the left side of the editor. Selecting multiple midi tracks now makes you go back and forward to the sequencer if you have the editor in full screen.

IMHO, with this option the editor and Browser should be attacheable and detachable modal windows as other daws, development softwar and so on do. We should be able to customize the behaviour of these windows. The browser focus on the rack or sequencer window is particularly maddening because you should be able to place wherever it is more useful, and be dockable.

Yes, thus I said "pretty much like before" and I agree with all of your remarks. To me the UI/UX seems to be still in an early beta state and I hope RS will iron out the kinks in the coming R13 updates after they're back in office.

Still extending the browser to have the functionality of loopcloud or ADSR sample manager would be even better.

[Theo.M]

Hey Theo, I'm confused by your graphic - I don't have any issue seeing which track is selected in either view, they are almost the same. What am I missing?
I am not affected by any changes to dark mode, overall I prefer it fwiw...

As for a "mix tab" in the browser (or anywhere for that matter) not sure how that works. What if you select a ReDrum track that is split out to 10 Mix Channels - which fader should be shown?
They are working on the memory leak from everything I've noticed, so hopefully we'll see something soon on that front.

There are some cool features in the new Gain Tool, such as a cross fader (useful for building your own dry/wet control on any FX chain), and a "cross-selector" which is like a modular CV "Sequential Switch" and can be used to build a cool little transient processor device (I'll have to put together a video showing that trick). It still lacks a peak hold display, which is one of my most used feature of Selig Gain (plus the ability to control CV signals or convert automation to CV!).

Hey Theo, I'm confused by your graphic - I don't have any issue seeing which track is selected in either view, they are almost the same. What am I missing?
I am not affected by any changes to dark mode, overall I prefer it fwiw...

As for a "mix tab" in the browser (or anywhere for that matter) not sure how that works. What if you select a ReDrum track that is split out to 10 Mix Channels - which fader should be shown?
They are working on the memory leak from everything I've noticed, so hopefully we'll see something soon on that front.

There are some cool features in the new Gain Tool, such as a cross fader (useful for building your own dry/wet control on any FX chain), and a "cross-selector" which is like a modular CV "Sequential Switch" and can be used to build a cool little transient processor device (I'll have to put together a video showing that trick). It still lacks a peak hold display, which is one of my most used feature of Selig Gain (plus the ability to control CV signals or convert automation to CV!).

Sorry Giles, just noticed the comment re the fader tool idea.
Well, it's the same in any DAW really isn't it? If you use a drum plugin for example that has 16 separate outs, it's not something you control from the side in the Arranger page either, unless you have a folder and chose to display all the outputs on the main sequencer arrange page. Normally for that though, in any DAW, we go into the Mixer, but for mono or stereo audio file tracks and mono or stereo instrument tracks, having the fader there on the left when you click a track is a very quick mixing procedure "as you go along", and that's why S1/Logic/PT/Cubase/Nuendo/DP/Bitwig/Ableton (sliders in this one, not faders)/Reaper and most any other DAW in 2024, all offer this tool. Reason requires constant hopping, especially if on a small screen.

With a multi monitor setup it wouldn't' matter:- Sequencer/Editor on main panel, Mixer and Rack on separate panels. A 3 monitor setup is ideal but two can work well also, having the Rack and Mixer on second panel. I myself use two 27" panels @1440p/100% scaling, except the laptop which is a single 17" 4K panel @ 200% scaling. It's on that computer that Reason involves a heck of a lot more jumping around screens than on other DAWs and is actually kind of unpleasant to use, especially if you need even just the Rack and Sequencer on the same page together, let alone all 3 with the Mixer as well. I am jumping around so often in Reason, for example just to see the master level or delay compensation amount. It's something I don't think I will ever get used to, and that's including V12. In PT I can effectively use a one window setup for everything. I can do midi inline and mix entirely from the sequencer page, and that includes with multi out instruments.
Just a thought anyway (just to be clear, I don't like docked or inline midi, when I click on a midi clip in PT, my settings are for it to open a full page editor which is the only other page I use in PT when on the laptop, but the point is, it CAN all be done on one page including the master channel being visible there).

They said PDC couldn't be done, and they did it (well, half did it), so this can be done too.
It's funny, Reason is the DAW that has a lot of "world's only" things now. With PDC, it's actually one of TWO Daws, so not the only one, where visual playback isn't compensated to be in time with the Audio. The only other one that does that is Ableton.
It's jut another example of how it's behind the competition.

So why use it? Because it has so much good about it, that's why. The compositional stage is so much fun in Reason, but I honestly never thought the mixing was fun.

[selig]

and next 2 pics

To be fair, many synths such as those from Arturia and Native Instrument do not show ANY of the UI when browsing. Basically, their browser fills the entire interface window!
Shown below, Arturia ARP2600 and NI Massive X:

Screen Shot 2024-07-12 at 8.02.36 AM.png (870.67 KiB) Viewed 4032 times

[selig]

Sorry Giles, just noticed the comment re the fader tool idea.
Well, it's the same in any DAW really isn't it?

OK, right there I'd have to stop you to say no, it's not the same in other DAWs. In other DAWs if you had the plugin splitting out to 10 mixer channels you would automatically see 10 mixer channels in the sequencer. In Reason, Mixer Channels are by default NOT shown in the Sequencer View.
For example, if I create four synths in Reason, I have four tracks in the sequencer. These tracks only contain the MIDI Data for those four devices, not the Mixer Channels.
To work in Reason, you would need Reason to populate the sequencer with ALL Mixer Channels automatically, which would of course instantly double the number of tracks in the sequencer (and these cannot be hidden as of today, making large song projects even less manageable IMO).

THEN, you could consider adding the feature you request – where to put the controls without eating up even more space, etc. But issues would still remain - you would still have two tracks (at the least) in the sequencer for every instrument in the Rack, there would be two sets of mute and solo for each instrument in the Rack and so on.

Other DAWs DO work differently, they typically have a single source for all instruments. Instead of having a separate MIDI and Audio (Mix/Aux) track most other DAWs I'm familiar with have a combo called an "Instrument" (or "software"?) track, which includes both the note data AND the audio channel data. History note: Pro Tools original had MIDI, Aux, and Audio tracks but early on combined the MIDI and Aux into "Instrument" tracks.

So no, it is not the same any any other DAW that I'm aware of.

[Theo.M]

Sorry Giles, just noticed the comment re the fader tool idea.
Well, it's the same in any DAW really isn't it?

OK, right there I'd have to stop you to say no, it's not the same in other DAWs. In other DAWs if you had the plugin splitting out to 10 mixer channels you would automatically see 10 mixer channels in the sequencer. In Reason, Mixer Channels are by default NOT shown in the Sequencer View.
For example, if I create four synths in Reason, I have four tracks in the sequencer. These tracks only contain the MIDI Data for those four devices, not the Mixer Channels.
To work in Reason, you would need Reason to populate the sequencer with ALL Mixer Channels automatically, which would of course instantly double the number of tracks in the sequencer (and these cannot be hidden as of today, making large song projects even less manageable IMO).

THEN, you could consider adding the feature you request – where to put the controls without eating up even more space, etc. But issues would still remain - you would still have two tracks (at the least) in the sequencer for every instrument in the Rack, there would be two sets of mute and solo for each instrument in the Rack and so on.

Other DAWs DO work differently, they typically have a single source for all instruments. Instead of having a separate MIDI and Audio (Mix/Aux) track most other DAWs I'm familiar with have a combo called an "Instrument" (or "software"?) track, which includes both the note data AND the audio channel data. History note: Pro Tools original had MIDI, Aux, and Audio tracks but early on combined the MIDI and Aux into "Instrument" tracks.

So no, it is not the same any any other DAW that I'm aware of.

I don't like selective quoting, and furthermore, DP had midi/audio part of instrument tracks split till the recent update (for one example), but regardless, I am reading what you are saying and I disagree.

As I clearly said, I am talking about single audio tracks and single instrument tracks using one output each, which reason has a fader for in the rack which also corresponds to a fader in the mixer. Not all DAWs expose every output in the sequencer page, as I also explained. So I know *exactly* what you are talking about but I completely disagree, as with many DAWs you have to purposely choose to show those tracks in the arrange page, as I do as I happen to like it.

On that front, until Reason has folders it will be far too messy to do such a thing and show every item that has a corresponding fader on the sequencer page, so on that one front, we do indeed agree, but it's still a valid feature for audio tracks and single output instruments.

It would be a mini representation of the rack or mixer fader, just a shortcut so you don't always have to go back and forth.

Am I the only one who besides drum synths with multi outs, works generally in single mono or stereo channel outputs? i.e. one track per "sound"? So I am suggesting for the tracks that DO get displayed in the sequencer, to have a fader from the mixer in a tab on the plugin browser on the left.

[Theo.M]

and next 2 pics

To be fair, many synths such as those from Arturia and Native Instrument do not show ANY of the UI when browsing. Basically, their browser fills the entire interface window!
Shown below, Arturia ARP2600 and NI Massive X:
Screen Shot 2024-07-12 at 8.02.36 AM.png

This is getting ridiculous. We are not talking about separate synths, we are talking about a DAW not allowing a browser to be docked. So not only is saying "to be fair" incorrect, it's actually unfair in this case.
The fact of the matter is, Reason had a neat docked browser and now it doesn't. The fact of the matter is, that all other DAWs have the option of a docked browser, whether on side or below (Reaper), and Reason no longer does. What I said was completely factual. Now whether or not others agree with me about not liking the new browser, well that's an entirely different thing and we are all entitled to our opinions. I don't use Arturia's browser that way btw, I use the integrated arrows which do not require opening the separate browser at all. It's coming across as if you are arguing just for arguments sake and I am finding it petty and quite silly TBH.

I don't like Reason 13's ergonomics. Simple as that. I haven't even opened the DAW today, I have already moved on.
You DO like it. As I said in a previous post, I do NOT want to ruin it for anyone who likes it. How much fairer can I be than that? All I asked for were preference options to dock the browser and open editors in full page as previous. Until then, I will not use it as my workflow is ruined, and that includes using it as a plugin. I have alternatives.

Edit, I want to add something.

I actually don't understand your post at all Giles and I don't know why it's still on my mind, but it is.
Think of this - If I was using reason rack as a plugin, or using mainly reason factory synths in my workflow (which is what I did when I used reason as a DAW), how is what I said about browsing synth patches and how it has changed not relevant, and how is the integrated browser of other vst plugins relevant, even a little bit?
Apples and Oranges.

So yes, Reason had a better browser for synth patches built in than most plugins do. But they took that AWAY (again, imo), so that's what we are discussing here, not whether it's now similar to some other random plugins or not. The point is, it did it better that synth plugins, now it doesn't. The point is, for other things besides synth presets, like audio and midi files, it did it equally to other DAWs (besides auto tempo matching), and now it does it WORSE than every other DAW. That's the issue for me. Not whether vst plugins have a better browser of their own or not.

[Pepin]

and next 2 pics

To be fair, many synths such as those from Arturia and Native Instrument do not show ANY of the UI when browsing. Basically, their browser fills the entire interface window!
Shown below, Arturia ARP2600 and NI Massive X:
Screen Shot 2024-07-12 at 8.02.36 AM.png

Fully modal browsers aren't really comparable.
IMO the confusing thing about the new browser is that it's pseudo-modal. It occupies an awkward position between modal and non-modal UI. When it's in "orange mode," it ultimately requires a confirm/cancel from the user, but it doesn't block the rest of the UI and lets the user delay this choice indefinitely. When it's in "gray mode," it is entirely non-modal. I speculate that the new browser is intended to be shown briefly and closed as soon as possible, but its non-modal nature doesn't exactly encourage this, so people leave it onscreen and become frustrated.

[Globi]

Unbelievable, some people should seriously slow down, the blood pressure of some is way too hight, and that is not beneficial for health. Reason is a piece of software, not war, not a weapon, just music software. And there are always different opinions, life is full of colours, it‘s not black and white.