Reason 13 has arrived: Release Notes

[gojonnygo]

Doesn't seem like much here for the RRP users to justify £199.

Very dissapointed,they want all that when wev'e ploughed hundreds or more into this.

[mcatalao]

I believe sidechaining is a VST3 thing in Reason though (and RE), or does that work with VST2 also? If one can side chain with VST2, there's no real reason (ahem) to use VST3 in Reason right now unless it's a plugin that only has a VST 3 version (and believe it or not, these are becoming more common nowadays).

Sidechaining works on VST2 as long as the developer implemented it. I've used it a lot in Izotope Neutron, for example.

If you need to hide VST3 in reason 13, you still can do it on the device pallete here:



If you have patches that can load on a VST2 or a VST3, it seems reason will prioritize VST2 when you browse trhough the browser (example opening a fxb file from the Rob PApen bit patch folder).
That being said, if you want to make it bullet proof i'd say the best option for now is to disable vst loading on the properties window:



If you have a given device in VST3 that you don't have in VST2, you can place it on a different folder and disable only the big mass of stuff you have duplicated and keep the other one active. The plugin manager is useless for this because you can't multi select vst's...

On a side note, I only started using VST3 recently while testing Opus, and noticed this issue last week, sent right a ticket to Reason Studios, problem is... a lot of those guys are now on vacation (Midsommer)!

It's good to know I'm not the only one aflicted. The issue is, imho very grave, because it renders perfectly good machines useless to use VST3, since it's quite normal to use several instances of the same device, specially when reason doesn't allow multi timbral VST's to receive different midi channels. And it becames even worse when you compare it to Cubase loading a lot less ram for the same amount of VST3 (not to talk about the ram reason loads by doing nothing!). Luckily 95% of my vst's have vst2 counterparts, so for now I'm just doing the same as you, disabling VST3 and carry on.

Oh and btw, if you still want to try R13 alongside R12, i did a batch file that helps doing that without having to reinstal any of them. You can get the code and instructions here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7534522

[Theo.M]

If anyone is interested, Reason 13 (and DP11) are the only 2 mainstream DAWs in existence that still don't offer wav/aiff loop tempo preview in file browser, and Reason is the absolute only one that doesn't do auto conform to tempo when file is imported into the project timeline.
It's things like this as to why some people say Reason is behind and always playing catch up. I never agreed with that, but to see things like this at version 13 is starting to sway my opinion somewhat.

I for one am a little surprised this time in just how little R13 offers yet just how much it changed in a negative way. They changed what never needed to be touched rather than fix what needed to be fixed. That sentence pretty much says it all from my perspective and has given me some sincere doubt as to where the devs are going with the product - 200 upgrade price for perpetual license is just scary to me for what's on offer ( I presume it is 200 from posts here, if that is wrong, please let me know).

Another little interesting (imo) tidbit - Reason 13 & Live 12 are the only two mainstream DAWs in in 2024 to still not visually compensate plugin delay compensation in any way shape or form. Both have been requested for years, in Ableton's case, well over a decade. You should see what it's like when I have UAD plugins spread over 32+ tracks in Reason - the play head is never in time with the audio or midi at any point for the entirety of the project, and editing anything and looping playback or starting and stopping playback in the editor views is just so unpleasant. If you want to see how bad it is for yourself, throw in just a single fab filter linear phase EQ on one track and watch every other track now go out of time visually. Same as Live - it's untenable, really. The workaround is of course to use very low latency or zero latency plugins, but we shouldn't *have* to do that in this DAW day and age.

If R13 fixed things like these 2 issues (for example), then the other downgrades would be palatable, but for ME, and again, remember we can only really speak from personal opinion, they have damaged significant things that were already in place and just about perfect, and added barely anything else new other than an admittedly good sounding synth (but where there are countless plugin examples that sound just as good and their development time and money could have been much better spent elsewhere).

I debated whether to post about my negative experiences thus far, but decided that it's important to be truthful but in a respectful manner.
I really can't use R13 as it is, cause there are fundamental issues for me. What I mean by fundamental is something that is used constantly in basic operation of the program, therefore unavoidable. Been trying to put up all day with what I perceive to be negative changes and I just can't.

Oh well.
There's no way I am giving up Selig's leveler and the ability to use that as an insert via Reason plugin in Pro Tools, so I will keep an eye out every day for a V12 perpetual on sale and start thinking of Reason as strictly an aax or vst plugin to use the devices in PT or Nuendo, rather than a DAW I plan to migrate to permanently.

[chimp_spanner]

If anyone is interested, Reason 13 (and DP11) are the only 2 mainstream DAWs in existence that still don't offer wav/aiff loop tempo preview in file browser, and Reason is the absolute only one that doesn't do auto conform to tempo when file is imported into the project timeline.
It's things like this as to why some people say Reason is behind and always playing catch up. I never agreed with that, but to see things like this at version 13 is starting to sway my opinion somewhat.

I for one am a little surprised this time in just how little R13 offers yet just how much it changed in a negative way. They changed what never needed to be touched rather than fix what needed to be fixed. That sentence pretty much says it all from my perspective and has given me some sincere doubt as to where the devs are going with the product - 200 upgrade price for perpetual license is just scary to me for what's on offer ( I presume it is 200 from posts here, if that is wrong, please let me know).

Another little interesting (imo) tidbit - Reason 13 & Live 12 are the only two mainstream DAWs in in 2024 to still not visually compensate plugin delay compensation in any way shape or form. Both have been requested for years, in Ableton's case, well over a decade. You should see what it's like when I have UAD plugins spread over 32+ tracks in Reason - the play head is never in time with the audio or midi at any point for the entirety of the project, and editing anything and looping playback or starting and stopping playback in the editor views is just so unpleasant. If you want to see how bad it is for yourself, throw in just a single fab filter linear phase EQ on one track and watch every other track now go out of time visually. Same as Live - it's untenable, really. The workaround is of course to use very low latency or zero latency plugins, but we shouldn't *have* to do that in this DAW day and age.

If R13 fixed things like these 2 issues (for example), then the other downgrades would be palatable, but for ME, and again, remember we can only really speak from personal opinion, they have damaged significant things that were already in place and just about perfect, and added barely anything else new other than an admittedly good sounding synth (but where there are countless plugin examples that sound just as good and their development time and money could have been much better spent elsewhere).

I debated whether to post about my negative experiences thus far, but decided that it's important to be truthful but in a respectful manner.
I really can't use R13 as it is, cause there are fundamental issues for me. What I mean by fundamental is something that is used constantly in basic operation of the program, therefore unavoidable. Been trying to put up all day with what I perceive to be negative changes and I just can't.

Oh well.
There's no way I am giving up Selig's leveler and the ability to use that as an insert via Reason plugin in Pro Tools, so I will keep an eye out every day for a V12 perpetual on sale and start thinking of Reason as strictly an aax or vst plugin to use the devices in PT or Nuendo, rather than a DAW I plan to migrate to permanently.

What else are you finding uncomfortable in the new update? I've been quite vocal in terms of what I'm disappointed about, but I do like the browser the more I use it. And for the most part I think the sequencer is faster? Muscle memory is slowing me down atm and I do sometimes find myself getting a little confused.

[Theo.M]

If anyone is interested, Reason 13 (and DP11) are the only 2 mainstream DAWs in existence that still don't offer wav/aiff loop tempo preview in file browser, and Reason is the absolute only one that doesn't do auto conform to tempo when file is imported into the project timeline.
It's things like this as to why some people say Reason is behind and always playing catch up. I never agreed with that, but to see things like this at version 13 is starting to sway my opinion somewhat.

I for one am a little surprised this time in just how little R13 offers yet just how much it changed in a negative way. They changed what never needed to be touched rather than fix what needed to be fixed. That sentence pretty much says it all from my perspective and has given me some sincere doubt as to where the devs are going with the product - 200 upgrade price for perpetual license is just scary to me for what's on offer ( I presume it is 200 from posts here, if that is wrong, please let me know).

Another little interesting (imo) tidbit - Reason 13 & Live 12 are the only two mainstream DAWs in in 2024 to still not visually compensate plugin delay compensation in any way shape or form. Both have been requested for years, in Ableton's case, well over a decade. You should see what it's like when I have UAD plugins spread over 32+ tracks in Reason - the play head is never in time with the audio or midi at any point for the entirety of the project, and editing anything and looping playback or starting and stopping playback in the editor views is just so unpleasant. If you want to see how bad it is for yourself, throw in just a single fab filter linear phase EQ on one track and watch every other track now go out of time visually. Same as Live - it's untenable, really. The workaround is of course to use very low latency or zero latency plugins, but we shouldn't *have* to do that in this DAW day and age.

If R13 fixed things like these 2 issues (for example), then the other downgrades would be palatable, but for ME, and again, remember we can only really speak from personal opinion, they have damaged significant things that were already in place and just about perfect, and added barely anything else new other than an admittedly good sounding synth (but where there are countless plugin examples that sound just as good and their development time and money could have been much better spent elsewhere).

I debated whether to post about my negative experiences thus far, but decided that it's important to be truthful but in a respectful manner.
I really can't use R13 as it is, cause there are fundamental issues for me. What I mean by fundamental is something that is used constantly in basic operation of the program, therefore unavoidable. Been trying to put up all day with what I perceive to be negative changes and I just can't.

Oh well.
There's no way I am giving up Selig's leveler and the ability to use that as an insert via Reason plugin in Pro Tools, so I will keep an eye out every day for a V12 perpetual on sale and start thinking of Reason as strictly an aax or vst plugin to use the devices in PT or Nuendo, rather than a DAW I plan to migrate to permanently.

What else are you finding uncomfortable in the new update? I've been quite vocal in terms of what I'm disappointed about, but I do like the browser the more I use it. And for the most part I think the sequencer is faster? Muscle memory is slowing me down atm and I do sometimes find myself getting a little confused.

The non dockable browser is the deal killer for me. I used to have a lovely docked browser and now I can't even make it small enough to prevent obscuring data in the rack or arrange page. I haven't worked in a DAW with that kind of floating "always on top" browser for 15 years and I am not going to start again now. It's backwards in every way to me. If there's a way to dock it and I simply can't see it, that will instantly make a huge difference for me.
Still though, unless someone can hack the colours, that's the other major issue for me as explained. My blue theme is just gone, and in the light theme the contrast separation between selected and unselected tracks is not even really visible to me at most angles, which has changed the entire functionality of the program. I always thought if anything they would accentuate selected tracks in a future update, not reverse it further and make it almost invisible. It's a little clearer on the black skin but that's way too dark for me.
Even the little things like the plug in buttons being at the top of the browser before and needing only one click to view the types of plugins I wanted. Now it's takes 3x as long and that mounts up and you can't see it at all times at a glance.

Those 3 things have prevented me from going any further with it as I can't get past them and I have been trying to work on a R12 project and see how I get along, and I just really uncomfortable. I have no issues with changes if that's what users want, as long as there's options to keep something that I am sure many of the other remaining users loved just the way it was. But these are forced changes of the "like it or lump it" variety.

No, I can not get used to a floating browser covering my project opening up every single time I hit the folder icon on a device. I simply can not do it.

At least in Pro Tools I can create screen sets with the workspace browser and have simple one key shortcuts to view the file browser and arranger page and/or mixer perfectly aligned to one another instantly and whenever I want to, and Bitwig, Logic and Nuendo's are beautifully perma docked as they should be. I am gravitating more to Nuendo these days as it's so powerful, there's only one feature preventing me from moving to it full time from PT and that's the clip gain line automation, where only reaper, S1 and PT have that particular "select and drag" auto node point creation functionality on the gain envelope for leveling out audio files. It's such a time saver and unfortunately Nuendo works like Reason and almost every other DAW in that regard, as well as a very unwieldy pencil mode.

I expect the guts of the DAW to go forward for 200 bucks, not a new browser and synth. There's never a reason to destroy something that was almost perfect, and the new tagging system could have simply been added to the older docked browser and they could have still had a floating option for those who wanted it.
They've literally ruined Reason for me. A good quarter my compositional process is spent in the browser.

Maybe tomorrow I will start investigating the rest of it and other new features and see what I think, just so I can feel assured I have given it a proper go. But if they don't let me dock the browser again, there is nothing that will ever get me back to creating songs entirely in Reason.

[Marc Swing]

There's never a reason to destroy something that was almost perfect, and the new tagging system could have simply been added to the older docked browser and they could have still had a floating option for those who wanted it.
They've literally ruined Reason for me. A good quarter my compositional process is spent in the browser.

Yes! I 100% agree with this! The new browser is a total disaster!

[tewoc]

Did the majority ask for a browser update or a split sequencer or new devices? I think, as this one new Reason 14 poll-thread also shows, that people clearly had other requests.
They wanted e.g. track folders, MPE support, markers or Combinator updates.

What is happening to our beloved Reason, I can't believe it, I can't understand it.

Whats just going on?

[jam-s]

I hope that R13 will be made usable again during the coming years via well needed .x updates. Right now R13 is pretty much an unfinished preview version imho, just like R12 was at launch. I suppose that's what one gets when VC is driving the development schedule and release dates are non negotiable.

[tewoc]

Where are roadmaps, plans, community-commmunication from the company, leaders future motivations, new CEO statements, interaction plans with new companies (hardware manufacturers .....) .... so, some good motivation for the customers?

Could it be that this release and the general communication is somehow a complete disaster or is this too negative an approach?

And those problems where there BEFORE the VC group came in.

I think, VC should finally start to take action before its too late.

[Marc Swing]

Did the majority ask for a browser update or a split sequencer or new devices? I think, as this one new Reason 14 poll-thread also shows, that people clearly had other requests.

Exactly!

What the hell is going on? It's like they've read all the requests and just: Naaah, let's just do the exact opposite of what the people have been asking for and watch the shitstorm repeating itself again..

It's almost like Reason Studios has some kind of weird fetish or obsession to ignore future requests that people have wanted for YEARS and do the opposite and ad requests that the minority has wanted... "

"YES! another synth or effect"... Like we don't have enough of that already?

[PhillipOrdonez]

You guys are tripping, the new browser is much better than before!

[Marc Swing]

You guys are tripping, the new browser is much better than before!

You're tripping, the new browser sucks! BIG TIME!

[PhillipOrdonez]

You guys are tripping, the new browser is much better than before!

You're tripping, the new browser sucks! BIG TIME!

Nah it's much faster and better. Love having one browser for devices and one for patches.

[Marc Swing]

Nah it's much faster and better. Love having one browser for devices and one for patches.

Yeah, like wiping your ass with sandpaper...

[avasopht]

Did the majority ask for a browser update or a split sequencer or new devices? I think, as this one new Reason 14 poll-thread also shows, that people clearly had other requests.

Exactly!

What the hell is going on? It's like they've read all the requests and just: Naaah, let's just do the exact opposite of what the people have been asking for and watch the shitstorm repeating itself again..

It's almost like Reason Studios has some kind of weird fetish or obsession to ignore future requests that people have wanted for YEARS and do the opposite and ad requests that the minority has wanted... "

"YES! another synth or effect"... Like we don't have enough of that already?

We have no idea what information they're getting from the users as a whole.

Look at the differences of opinion above. One loves the new browser. One hates it.

[chimp_spanner]

I honestly wouldn't say the browser is a disaster. In terms of how it actually functions...I think it's great. I love finding new and interesting presets. I can get the bones of an idea down without reaching for a VST. It 100% needs device favourites (which are coming, eventually). And it also needs audio preview, scrubbing and tempo matching. But once it gets those I think it's gonna be fine.

I still don't understand why it had to be floating, though. It can dynamically re-arrange the tags based on resizing. I don't see what, if any, functionality would be lost by having it be a little narrower, and docked at the side. Maybe hide a bunch of the columns if need be, and reveal them when it's dragged out to the right.

I can, and do, use it as it is in standalone. Honestly can't say it's a hinderance. In RRP it doesn't feel great though, ngl.

[mimidancer]

I think I found a bug. IN Blocks mode you cannot change the color of the clip until you switch to song mode. Is anyone else having this issue? I work in block often. Sometimes just to set section lengths and create markers in my track. Empry blocks make great track markers. Let me know if you have the same issue.

[WOO]

Did they give us a wider palette of track and clip colors to choose from? Any idea as to a timeline when they'll have the bug squashed about not being able to use 12 without reinstalling after install of 13?

[Pepin]

Hmmm. I wonder if the same is true of you used 32 Rack Extensions?
I don't have R13 so unable to test, just curious.

To clarify, I reproduced it in Reason 12 just now, but apparently it remains in Reason 13 (can't test it myself until the parallel install bug is fixed).

It's definitely not an issues with REs.
It's unique to VST3 (and possibly affects only Windows). But it seems to apply to all VST3s, so the fault is definitely with Reason.

Just to update, I was able to re-test on Reason 13 today and can confirm it's not fixed.

[Loque]

To clarify, I reproduced it in Reason 12 just now, but apparently it remains in Reason 13 (can't test it myself until the parallel install bug is fixed).

It's definitely not an issues with REs.
It's unique to VST3 (and possibly affects only Windows). But it seems to apply to all VST3s, so the fault is definitely with Reason.

Just to update, I was able to re-test on Reason 13 today and can confirm it's not fixed.

Create a ticket.

[Pepin]

Just to update, I was able to re-test on Reason 13 today and can confirm it's not fixed.

Create a ticket.

I did, though I'm sure they're already aware of it.

Comparing memory usage of 24 empty audio tracks with 24 instances of FabFilter Pro Q 3:
Reason 13: 13.5 GB
Cubase: 500 MB

Reason allocates over 500 MB for every VST3 plugin, regardless of their actual requirements. I don't see how they'd miss this. Maybe this "bug" was a quick fix for some other issue that cropped up close to the release of VST3 (just speculation).

[voiceprint1]

Can reason 13 run on older Intel macs?

Also does anyone know of a VST that is as good as the Polymode, it sounds fantastic

[nitro x music]

Is anyone in here having issues with 13 suddenly freezing or crashing when dragging in 3rd party VSTs? When I add a plugin it will occasionally crash, had it happen 3 times today...

[Theo.M]

Can reason 13 run on older Intel macs?

Also does anyone know of a VST that is as good as the Polymode, it sounds fantastic

Try the UAD polymax, lots of sales and sounds superb.

[tanni]

Did they give us a wider palette of track and clip colors to choose from?

No, unfortunately not. I think this is more than necessary because I regularly don't have enough colors to choose from. One reason is that the dark colors are unfortunately hardly usable for me because I can no longer read the labels on the clips (black writing on dark colors! too little contrast!). Therefore I cannot use it.