Reason 13 has arrived: Release Notes

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
PhillipOrdonez
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Post 24 Jun 2024

Faastwalker wrote:
23 Jun 2024
selig wrote:
21 Jun 2024

That’s how it’s always been explained IIRC. At least at one point they said separate Rack Zoom was on the list, and was always considered to be a separate feature.
I hope so. Rack zoom is really all that was needed, unless the intention was for this to be an accessibility feature. I'm sure we'd all love to see and use those gorgeous hi-res devices at 200%!!! :D We definitely DO NOT need everything else coming along for the ride in the 200% zoom balloon!! :thumbs_down: You lose half your screen real estate across the board. It's ridiculous!

What I'd really love, although I acknowledge this is probably pie in the sky stuff, is if you could zoom to rack device. So, CTRL+click+zoom button blows up your device to your specified 'Rack Zoom' setting. Everything else stays in place CTRL+click+zoom button again, or maybe 'Esc' key, and the device snaps back into the rack at your default zoom level.
What do you think of this, where the device zooms in, but also every device it is connected to in series or parallel, audio or CV, appears close to it, no matter how far away they are in the rack from each other. I called it focus mode:

viewtopic.php?t=7533788

mdcmdcmdc
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Post 24 Jun 2024

selig wrote:
21 Jun 2024
I no longer mix in Reason, moving to LUNA, for all the reasons above.

It's funny, and I guess speaks to every user's unique needs/interests, but mixing is the thing I actually enjoy most about Reason.

I make fairly normal guitar/bass/drums rock-adjacent music, and I find Reason to be an intuitive and efficient DAW for doing that - I sketch out ideas and demos quickly in Reason at home; render out scratch tracks, record multi-track takes in reaper at my rehearsal space; and then drop the comped takes back into Reason where I can mix and mangle them to my heart's content, and build out "finished" "songs" with easy access to great sounding synths with useful presets and generally good-enough effects.

I think I'm doing something very different with the software than those folks working at the deep end of the EDM pool, but it's interesting to me that someone would pick luna for basically the reasons I like reason. De gustibus etc

Dafreeze
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Joined: 12 Jun 2015

Post 24 Jun 2024

Pepin wrote:
23 Jun 2024

However, the new sequencer is different. As an experienced user, I don't think I gain anything from it.
It feels like it's mostly designed to look superficially familiar to users of other software and to surface tool window functionality to users who didn't know about it.

The moment-to-moment workflow in the Edit Area is now very muddled compared to Reason 12, with functionality torn out in a haphazard fashion. We can resize clips and even timestretch them, but we can't move them. We can razor them, but we can't delete them (usually). Are these bugs or intentional behavior? It's hard to even know. It's much harder to adapt to a new workflow when the underlying design principles are so inconsistent.

In a way, it's not different enough from what we had before. I have no issue with similar split views in other DAWs, but their features are tailored to such a setup. The Reason 13 sequencer feels more like a proof of concept or minimum viable product. It feels like the result of whatever minimal codebase changes were necessary to test how a split sequencer might feel, not the result of thoughtful design and iteration.

Maybe others are enjoying the new sequencer workflow? The browser changes seem to have overshadowed the sequencer changes in the discussion around this release.
i like everything about r13 except the sequencer split screen. its harder to find stuff in arangementview and the pianoroll is to small especially if you work with a few octaves. I can work ofcourse with full edit screen but no way to solo or select other devices while in edit mode. the zoom function i also find very irritating as i like to see whats before and behind my clip, and the no automation editing in edit mode, another thing thats harder to keep track of. all the midi editing stuff thats now to the front i like very much, but yeah workflow did not improved sadly.

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jjpscott01
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Post 24 Jun 2024

I like this update more each day probably for the same reasons listed above. I'm getting more familiar with this browser, im finding my workflow using key commands, and I have to say sequencing feels faster than ever. Also, I don't know if others are having the same experience but it feels rock solid which is a nice return to form for Reason. I'm surprised how much time the drag to zoom feature is saving me when writing but its turned out to be a really nice. Lastly, I haven't heard it mentioned but for someone who loves the pitch edit feature in Reason, having it the edit window on the bottom while being able to navigate through the entire song makes finding spots in the song that need some tuning really quick compared to before.
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Globi
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Post 24 Jun 2024

I fully agree. I really like the improved workflow. Sure it‘s a change on some tasks, but spend some time to adapt is worth it. In summary I feel comfortable and enjoy it very much 😊

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chimp_spanner
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Post 25 Jun 2024

mdcmdcmdc wrote:
24 Jun 2024
selig wrote:
21 Jun 2024
I no longer mix in Reason, moving to LUNA, for all the reasons above.

It's funny, and I guess speaks to every user's unique needs/interests, but mixing is the thing I actually enjoy most about Reason.

I make fairly normal guitar/bass/drums rock-adjacent music, and I find Reason to be an intuitive and efficient DAW for doing that - I sketch out ideas and demos quickly in Reason at home; render out scratch tracks, record multi-track takes in reaper at my rehearsal space; and then drop the comped takes back into Reason where I can mix and mangle them to my heart's content, and build out "finished" "songs" with easy access to great sounding synths with useful presets and generally good-enough effects.

I think I'm doing something very different with the software than those folks working at the deep end of the EDM pool, but it's interesting to me that someone would pick luna for basically the reasons I like reason. De gustibus etc
I have done a lot of rock and prog/djent metal mixing in Reason. I do really like it. Even though I'm working in Cubase now to get access to things I need, I do miss how much easier it is to do certain things. The bussing and parallel workflow in Reason is great I think. And static automation values...I don't think I'll ever stop banging on about them. So useful. Don't know why more DAWs don't implement it.

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Norway

Post 25 Jun 2024

chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Jun 2024
mdcmdcmdc wrote:
24 Jun 2024



It's funny, and I guess speaks to every user's unique needs/interests, but mixing is the thing I actually enjoy most about Reason.

I make fairly normal guitar/bass/drums rock-adjacent music, and I find Reason to be an intuitive and efficient DAW for doing that - I sketch out ideas and demos quickly in Reason at home; render out scratch tracks, record multi-track takes in reaper at my rehearsal space; and then drop the comped takes back into Reason where I can mix and mangle them to my heart's content, and build out "finished" "songs" with easy access to great sounding synths with useful presets and generally good-enough effects.

I think I'm doing something very different with the software than those folks working at the deep end of the EDM pool, but it's interesting to me that someone would pick luna for basically the reasons I like reason. De gustibus etc
I have done a lot of rock and prog/djent metal mixing in Reason. I do really like it. Even though I'm working in Cubase now to get access to things I need, I do miss how much easier it is to do certain things. The bussing and parallel workflow in Reason is great I think. And static automation values...I don't think I'll ever stop banging on about them. So useful. Don't know why more DAWs don't implement it.
I mix in live due to large project management being better there, but the automation in reason is something I miss a lot. It's so good!

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selig
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Post 25 Jun 2024

mdcmdcmdc wrote:
24 Jun 2024
selig wrote:
21 Jun 2024
I no longer mix in Reason, moving to LUNA, for all the reasons above.

It's funny, and I guess speaks to every user's unique needs/interests, but mixing is the thing I actually enjoy most about Reason.

I make fairly normal guitar/bass/drums rock-adjacent music, and I find Reason to be an intuitive and efficient DAW for doing that - I sketch out ideas and demos quickly in Reason at home; render out scratch tracks, record multi-track takes in reaper at my rehearsal space; and then drop the comped takes back into Reason where I can mix and mangle them to my heart's content, and build out "finished" "songs" with easy access to great sounding synths with useful presets and generally good-enough effects.

I think I'm doing something very different with the software than those folks working at the deep end of the EDM pool, but it's interesting to me that someone would pick luna for basically the reasons I like reason. De gustibus etc
To be clear, the reasons I mentioned for moving away from Reason is: “frustration with missing features or lack of progress” (this from the post above mine when I posted). So I don’t think this is the same reason as you…

Things I wanted/needed: Automation in decibels, accurate automation scaling (Reason is not), direct typing in values, system wide tape emulation, summing simulation (Neve is amazing), full fader automation modes (touch, trim, absolute, off), “session data import” to share settings from the previous song with the next, AAF import, “Versions” support, track show hide, channel grouping of all controls, edit grouping with control for phase correlated quantize, “inline” note editing (no separate edit mode/screen), being able to apply changes across multiple channels such as adding a plugin,/changing outputs assignments/adding sends, track freeze, track versions, pre/post roll for editing (I can keep the selection but play from the bar before the selection), deactivate tracks, custom labels for inputs/outputs, etc.

These are just the things off the top of my head I’m using every day, I’m probably forgetting something here.
I do more rock/pop/ambient/indy/folk/Afrobeat these days than EDM or related genres, fwiw…
Selig Audio, LLC

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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Oh well. I guess I am out for now.

The first thing I will ask, as a Reason+ subscriber, if there is any way I can go back to 12 or install 12 on a fresh PC installation (the latter being the worry, as I am re formatting my Mac now that I understand the new OS and won't make the same mistakes that caused a bit of a mess)?
If not, I have to cancel the sub and try find a version 12 for sale.

It is not that it's simply something I don't like, the program has become genuinely unusable to me, i.e. real deal breakers.

The new browser not being able to be docked on the left every time I want to find an instrument patch is really annoying. Everything was so neat and tidy and cohesive in R12. But maybe I can get used to it, maybe, even though I can no longer see the synth or my tracks on the screen when browsing presets (seriously)???
But what makes it worse is that the folders have gone, and I don't like the new category system. OK, maybe I can get used to that.
But now they have removed the inability to hide plugin type, and that is dealbreaker number one.
I used to be able to disable VST2 or VST3 at the touch of a button and it made everything so much neater, but now the entire plugin in list is there at all times.
I hope I am wrong and just haven't discovered the functions, but I am the type of person that has always found that removing something and not replacing it is just so frustrating and I can never understand why it's done.
For example, since the media bay came out in Cubase, they have only improved it by adding it to the right docked browser, but everything that was always there is still there, many version generations later. It's been there for so many Cubendo versions that I forgot when it started, and Steinberg understands when their userbase has become accustomed to the way something works. Same with Logic. Same with PT. Same with S1 since V1!! All those DAWs have done is added options but not removed functionality. What Reason Studios have done is painful to me.

The other deal breaker is that I can barely see when a track is selected on the arrange page. The contrast they are using now is so light, it is barely noticeable, and I have to strain my eyes and it's slowing down production immensely and I keep deleting things I didn't want to or not deleting what I want to delete.
It wasn't fantastic before, but you could at least tell what tracks were selected or not.
I am not sure why they have done this, but I am nearly 52 years old and I am not going to cause myself eyestrain by trying to work like this. Logic, PT, Nuendo, so easy to see what's selected or not.

Actually, to be completely honest, I probably can't get used to a non docked browser, and even if I could, not being able to clearly see selected tracks on the arrange page is too hard an obstacle to climb for me. And this is on a 4K mini LED 1100 nit HDR monitor!
Every other DAW has an optionally dock able browser and it's part of my workflow. Can't do it. I used to be able to resize with just a drag left and right and the new one seems almost to be a punishment.

So if anyone has an R12 to sell, please let me know, or if there's a way to install it new when I re do my Mac this weekend, otherwise I won't be installing it at all, as I won't be using version 13. I just won't do it, so I don't want to start any new projects.
I love the new Polytone synth, but actual critical things (imo) haven't been fixed.

There's still no project tempo preview for audio loops that aren't in rex format. Only DAW I know of now with this affliction. So why a fancy new browser?

VST3 support is still *COMPLETELY* broken on Windows 11.. You can't do large projects using VST3 plugins cause of memory issues, even with 64Gb ram. Just 32 tracks each with one VST 3 algorithmic (i.e. not sample based) synth and one vst 3 audio effects uses nearly 50GB on reload, and not even a GB in other DAWs. That means it's BROKEN indeed.
So instead of fixing really important things, they updated cosmetics that were fantastic to begin with. I don't get it. And now, unlike before, I can't remove VST3 plugins from the plug in browser.

Of course, if I am wrong about anything, please let me know, and I'll be thrilled to be wrong! But this is where I am at thus far, in that I dislike the update immensely from an ergonomic standpoint, and therefore that makes it a DAW I don't really want to use anymore, as ergonomics are half the battle (for me, anyway).

Cheers and thanks as always.
PS I will keep an eye out, if they fix the colour issue and at least re add a dock able browser, even in its new form, I'll be back.

The VST3 issue and lack of tempo preview for wav and aiff files really needs to be fixed though and something that prevented me from migrating to version 12 as my main DAW. It's tiring running Bitwig or Ableton just to be able to tempo preview drum loops in Reason, and even the process of importing them to tempo is archaic. I just tried it in Version 13. I imported an 134bpm drum loop into an 130 BPM project. If I disabled stretch, changed the tempo then reenabled it, it went back to the clips original tempo LOL.
So I have to either guess with a control drag and time resize clip to correct bar, or disable stretch, go to clip native tempo for entire project, bounce clip in place, which is not a bounce in place as it does it on new track, delete the previous track, then go back to the normal project tempo.

Anyway, I was considering moving solely to Reason, but this has set me back considerably, unfortunately. I'll try the rack out in PT and Nuendo and maybe it's worth keeping the sub just for that. Shall see.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
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Pepin
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
But now they have removed the inability to hide plugin type, and that is dealbreaker number one.
I used to be able to disable VST2 or VST3 at the touch of a button and it made everything so much neater, but now the entire plugin in list is there at all times.
I hope I am wrong and just haven't discovered the functions, but I am the type of person that has always found that removing something and not replacing it is just so frustrating and I can never understand why it's done.
It was moved viewtopic.php?p=665516

I don’t subscribe myself, but I believe you can still install Reason 12 using this link
https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason1274/

Note that there’s a bug currently which prevents R12 and R13 from both being installed. Whichever is installed most recently will break the other.

RS is at least going to add some type of replacement for device favorites (confirmed in livestream).

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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Pepin wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
But now they have removed the inability to hide plugin type, and that is dealbreaker number one.
I used to be able to disable VST2 or VST3 at the touch of a button and it made everything so much neater, but now the entire plugin in list is there at all times.
I hope I am wrong and just haven't discovered the functions, but I am the type of person that has always found that removing something and not replacing it is just so frustrating and I can never understand why it's done.
It was moved viewtopic.php?p=665516

I don’t subscribe myself, but I believe you can still install Reason 12 using this link
https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason1274/

Note that there’s a bug currently which prevents R12 and R13 from both being installed. Whichever is installed most recently will break the other.

RS is at least going to add some type of replacement for device favorites (confirmed in livestream).
Thanks for that.
One issue averted, although I don't really like the new placement, as it's 3 clicks vs 1.
Now you need to open the top menu then click the down arrow then make the choice.
So a complete regression in every way as far as that feature is concerned at least.

BTW, hiding vst 2 duplicates is a complete no no for Windows users, as even an average size 32 tracks project with just one VST 3 plugin on each track will break a 32GB ram system on Windows 11.
There's no sensical reason to use VST 3 plugins in Reason on Windows at this stage.
To release a whole version jump and not fix it has really shocked me, as one thing about Reason always was how stable and bug free the program is, but VST3 should not even be selectable the way it is now.

For those who thought my previous post was too long, I just did another VST 3 comparison, and this time chose fab filter plugins in case the Waveshell was the issue in my previous test. Nope.

So prepare to be even more shocked - 16 Fab Filter Twin 3 synths (one on each track) and 16 Fab Filter Pro Q3 plugins (one for each Twin 3 instance), so 32 VST3 plugins in total, shows Reason 13 using 20GB of ram.
Same 16 tracks with same 32 total plugins in S1 shows it using 1600mb.
All plugins are at default init settings. Imagine just 32 total plugins using more than your system ram on 16GB systems lol. And none of these plugins are even sample based.

Studio One on an empty project shows 432mb total usage, therefore the 32 FabFilter plugins are using just under 1.2gb total of ram.

Reason 13 on an empty project shows 632mb, therefore the same plugins are using just over 19GB - for 16 EQ's and 16 synths!

I disabled VST2 in S1's advanced preferences to assure I was using only VST3 versions.

BTW, my default project has a blue cat protector on the master bus. I use it as a safety limiter. It's the only effect in my entire Reason template, and my reason template loads to nearly 1.3gb ram usage just because of that one VST3 plugin instance.

VST3 is broken on R12 and R13 Windows.
Jury still out for Mac OS version.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Wow, they have also removed the Blue theme :| :(

I thought it might be better for track select notification since the light theme has made that too hard to see now.

The black theme has better contrast separation for selected tracks, but it's just too dark for me. I can't do black DAWs, I can do moderately dark, like Logic kind of thing. Any darker really hurts my eyes.

Again, removing features. Why? Sigh.

I don't understand why Propellerhead have made the color/contrast distinction between selected and non selected tracks so minor. That's something that almost no other DAW I know of has an issue with, because I presume that most developers realise that knowing what's selected at a glance is crucial when you are about to do a process on said selections, as well as knowing when *nothing* is selected being equally important.

I am truly bummed about all of this, cause I really like Reason. A lot. It's a very inspirational program, albeit IMO overpriced.

I honestly thought V13 would just build on what was there with new much requested features, not change a tried and proven design.

Just cancelled my sub, it offered me 6.99 a month to stay for an extra 3 months and I thought ok, I will think about it, and I closed the pop up by clicking the little X and it unsubbed me anyway LOL. I did not hit "cancel anyway". I guess you have to specifically click "stay on". I'll wait till it runs out now in September and see the situation then.

My main issue, apart from disliking some of the changes is that I am now rather hesitant to start anything in Reason or even use it as a plugin in another DAW, as I just don't know if I want to continue and if I'll have access to it down the road. One thing about me is that I like to be able to load projects from any time period and all the plugins work. I am also not paying 500 USD for a license for just the base program and base rack and spending over 1000 to get the devices included in the sub.. 1000 USD is 1500 AUD! Can't do it! There's not even a crossgrade from other DAWs. Cubase 13 and DP11 are actually cheaper than Reason right now. Logic is almost half the price! There's also no discount for Reason+ subscribers. It's too expensive for what it is IMO, but the sub makes sense because you get all those extra devices and any that are added along the way from Reason Studios.

I'm sad, like truly. I hate being negative now, the new me and all, but I'm really gutted and don't know what to do, as I have been loving Reason 12 the past 4 months.

BTW, another issue is that the app seems to take a much longer time to shut down now.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
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Pepin
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
So prepare to be even more shocked - 16 Fab Filter Twin 3 synths (one on each track) and 16 Fab Filter Pro Q3 plugins (one for each Twin 3 instance), so 32 VST3 plugins in total, shows Reason 13 using 20GB of ram.
Same 16 tracks with same 32 total plugins in S1 shows it using 1600mb.
All plugins are at default init settings. Imagine just 32 total plugins using more than your system ram on 16GB systems lol. And none of these plugins are even sample based.

Studio One on an empty project shows 432mb total usage, therefore the 32 FabFilter plugins are using just under 1.2gb total of ram.

Reason 13 on an empty project shows 632mb, therefore the same plugins are using just over 19GB - for 16 EQ's and 16 synths!
Interesting, I've been using Windows more often than Mac recently, but I generally only use a couple VST instances in Reason (Pianoteq + sometimes Kontakt). My machine has 32 GB ram, so I wouldn't have run into this.

But like you describe, I just tried creating a project with 16 synths (a mix of Arturia stuff, Synapse, Pianoteq) each with Pro Q 3 on the inserts.
And indeed, memory usage is astronomical (20 gigs). Rather shocking...
Have you reported this? I'm surprised this issue isn't more publicized, or maybe I missed the threads?

I generally use VST3 for better future compatibility, but this makes that decision more difficult.

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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Pepin wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
So prepare to be even more shocked - 16 Fab Filter Twin 3 synths (one on each track) and 16 Fab Filter Pro Q3 plugins (one for each Twin 3 instance), so 32 VST3 plugins in total, shows Reason 13 using 20GB of ram.
Same 16 tracks with same 32 total plugins in S1 shows it using 1600mb.
All plugins are at default init settings. Imagine just 32 total plugins using more than your system ram on 16GB systems lol. And none of these plugins are even sample based.

Studio One on an empty project shows 432mb total usage, therefore the 32 FabFilter plugins are using just under 1.2gb total of ram.

Reason 13 on an empty project shows 632mb, therefore the same plugins are using just over 19GB - for 16 EQ's and 16 synths!
Interesting, I've been using Windows more often than Mac recently, but I generally only use a couple VST instances in Reason (Pianoteq + sometimes Kontakt). My machine has 32 GB ram, so I wouldn't have run into this.

But like you describe, I just tried creating a project with 16 synths (a mix of Arturia stuff, Synapse, Pianoteq) each with Pro Q 3 on the inserts.
And indeed, memory usage is astronomical (20 gigs). Rather shocking...
Have you reported this? I'm surprised this issue isn't more publicized, or maybe I missed the threads?

I generally use VST3 for better future compatibility, but this makes that decision more difficult.
Yes it's been well discussed here.
I have now reproduced the issue with FabFilter, Waves, Vengeance Sound, Blue Cat Audio and Softube plugins, and gave up on trying any more and went back to VST2.

Indeed, as you said, the issue won't be noticed in projects using only a couple plugins.

But for a totally ITB project of any reasonable track count and using all synth and effect plugins, VST3 is not sustainable in Reason 12 or 13 as far as Win 10 and 11 are concerned. That's for sure!
I do need to do more testing on the Mac side of things so can't comment there..... yet.

Btw, for me it's quite normal to use 200+ plugins in a project.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
MSI GT77/13980HX/RTX 4090m/64GB/Arturia Minifuse 2/Win 11 Pro/S1 V6/Bitwig 5/Low DPC latency tuned

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Pepin
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Yes it's been well discussed here.
Somehow I missed all of that. It's an egregious bug to leave in the backlog when VST3 support was a selling point of Reason 12 for many people. But I guess RS figure "use VST2 where possible" is a sufficient workaround for now. Most plugins are still available as VST2, but that won't last forever.

Stamatz
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Hmmm. I wonder if the same is true of you used 32 Rack Extensions?
I don't have R13 so unable to test, just curious.
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Pepin
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Stamatz wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Hmmm. I wonder if the same is true of you used 32 Rack Extensions?
I don't have R13 so unable to test, just curious.
To clarify, I reproduced it in Reason 12 just now, but apparently it remains in Reason 13 (can't test it myself until the parallel install bug is fixed).

It's definitely not an issues with REs.
It's unique to VST3 (and possibly affects only Windows). But it seems to apply to all VST3s, so the fault is definitely with Reason.

WOO
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Post 25 Jun 2024

So now I know why, when using vst3's in 12 running win 10 I have a terrible time with cracks and pops. How does this not get fixed by reason? Is this only an issue for windows users?

mind2069
Posts: 153
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 25 Jun 2024

Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Pepin wrote:
25 Jun 2024


Interesting, I've been using Windows more often than Mac recently, but I generally only use a couple VST instances in Reason (Pianoteq + sometimes Kontakt). My machine has 32 GB ram, so I wouldn't have run into this.

But like you describe, I just tried creating a project with 16 synths (a mix of Arturia stuff, Synapse, Pianoteq) each with Pro Q 3 on the inserts.
And indeed, memory usage is astronomical (20 gigs). Rather shocking...
Have you reported this? I'm surprised this issue isn't more publicized, or maybe I missed the threads?

I generally use VST3 for better future compatibility, but this makes that decision more difficult.
Yes it's been well discussed here.
I have now reproduced the issue with FabFilter, Waves, Vengeance Sound, Blue Cat Audio and Softube plugins, and gave up on trying any more and went back to VST2.

Indeed, as you said, the issue won't be noticed in projects using only a couple plugins.

But for a totally ITB project of any reasonable track count and using all synth and effect plugins, VST3 is not sustainable in Reason 12 or 13 as far as Win 10 and 11 are concerned. That's for sure!
I do need to do more testing on the Mac side of things so can't comment there..... yet.

Btw, for me it's quite normal to use 200+ plugins in a project.
Yeah I reported this a while ago and it started somewhere in Reason 12 and I updated my RAM to 64GB, now I understand because at some point I started to install all my vst3 and started using them, I didn't make the links that it was vst3 that was the culprit, now it makes sense. I was thinking maybe it was a windows update or a Reason update and figured they would address it.

So after all this time and releasing 13, they haven't corrected this and they remain silent, if it's not an issue with other DAW's, they should be able to address it, it's kind of a major issue.

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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Stamatz wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Hmmm. I wonder if the same is true of you used 32 Rack Extensions?
I don't have R13 so unable to test, just curious.
No memory leak issue with RE or VST2.

The only "issue" with RE vs VST is the same plugins use a little more CPU in RE versions, but it's not really a problem anymore like it was with R7.
Last edited by Theo.M on 25 Jun 2024, edited 1 time in total.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
MSI GT77/13980HX/RTX 4090m/64GB/Arturia Minifuse 2/Win 11 Pro/S1 V6/Bitwig 5/Low DPC latency tuned

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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

WOO wrote:
25 Jun 2024
So now I know why, when using vst3's in 12 running win 10 I have a terrible time with cracks and pops. How does this not get fixed by reason? Is this only an issue for windows users?
Yes it's entirely possible if your ram has gone over and suddenly it's resorting to virtual ram or trying to shuffle the main ram constantly when over the limit that performance issues could follow.

Right now, to do the sort of projects I do I would need 256GB ram or more to operate Reason in the box using only VST 3 plugins, and I consider my projects to be quite reasonable in size (let's say a median of 64 tracks).

I believe sidechaining is a VST3 thing in Reason though (and RE), or does that work with VST2 also? If one can side chain with VST2, there's no real reason (ahem) to use VST3 in Reason right now unless it's a plugin that only has a VST 3 version (and believe it or not, these are becoming more common nowadays).

On Mac I have no choice if I want to use native apple silicon in any DAW, it's VST3 only. The way it was explained to me was that VST2 native apple silicon plugins were not made and I do know that I can only use VST3 in Nuendo. However, how true the statement that VST2 can not work on Apple Silicon native mode is? Well, I have no idea, only going by posts I have read.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
MSI GT77/13980HX/RTX 4090m/64GB/Arturia Minifuse 2/Win 11 Pro/S1 V6/Bitwig 5/Low DPC latency tuned

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Theo.M
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Post 25 Jun 2024

By the way, is the new minimalist contrast between selected and unselected tracks, particularly in the default light skin, not bothering anyone else? That's such an easy arbitrary fix, they would simply need to change 2 GUI colours, one for light and dark skin, so I really hope they do it or allow us some minor skin editability like Nuendo and S1 have where we can set this ourselves. If others hate it that much it could be an option.

For example, Logic doesn't have GUI options other than letting you choose the background brightness for arrange page and piano roll. Something like that but for selected vs unselected tracks would be so easy for them to add - and if they hate it that much, an option! Something that never hurt any DAW are some extra simple visual options to cater to a wider audience. It's really hurting my eyes with the amount of concentration I am finding I have to now do.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
MSI GT77/13980HX/RTX 4090m/64GB/Arturia Minifuse 2/Win 11 Pro/S1 V6/Bitwig 5/Low DPC latency tuned

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Pepin
Posts: 603
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Stamatz wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Hmmm. I wonder if the same is true of you used 32 Rack Extensions?
I don't have R13 so unable to test, just curious.
No memory leak issue with RE or VST3.

The only "issue" with RE vs VST is the same plugins use a little more CPU in RE versions, but it's not really a problem anymore like it was with R7.
Just so no one gets confused, I think you meant to type VST2 there. The memory leak is with VST3.
Though technically speaking, it's not a memory leak since the memory is freed after deleting the plugin. It's just that Reason is allocating an excessive amount of memory for each plugin.

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Theo.M
Posts: 1206
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Post 25 Jun 2024

Pepin wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Theo.M wrote:
25 Jun 2024


No memory leak issue with RE or VST3.

The only "issue" with RE vs VST is the same plugins use a little more CPU in RE versions, but it's not really a problem anymore like it was with R7.
Just so no one gets confused, I think you meant to type VST2 there. The memory leak is with VST3.
Though technically speaking, it's not a memory leak since the memory is freed after deleting the plugin. It's just that Reason is allocating an excessive amount of memory for each plugin.
Yep indeed. So sorry! total fat finger numeric keypad typo.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra/64Gb/Apollo T-Bolt 3/OS 14.5.0/PT 2024/Nuendo 13
MSI GT77/13980HX/RTX 4090m/64GB/Arturia Minifuse 2/Win 11 Pro/S1 V6/Bitwig 5/Low DPC latency tuned

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Marc Swing
Posts: 136
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 26 Jun 2024

Pepin wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Stamatz wrote:
25 Jun 2024
Hmmm. I wonder if the same is true of you used 32 Rack Extensions?
I don't have R13 so unable to test, just curious.
To clarify, I reproduced it in Reason 12 just now, but apparently it remains in Reason 13 (can't test it myself until the parallel install bug is fixed).

It's definitely not an issues with REs.
It's unique to VST3 (and possibly affects only Windows). But it seems to apply to all VST3s, so the fault is definitely with Reason.
I have the same problem with VST 3 vs VST 2, VST 3 is waaay more heavy on the system then VST 2 (im on windows 10 with 64 gb of ram)

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