Announcing Reason 13

[DaveyG]

One thing I'm surprised hasn't been done yet is an AI program that takes your loop and makes an arrangement out of it, while adding ear candy. I find making risers, stutters and transitions boring and tedious at times.

I can't remember what it's called but there is a Max 4 Live device that sort-of does that. It picks up on words in your track names "Bass", " Kick". etc. You give it a style and it fills out an arrangement for you, leaving placeholders for the transitions and stuff. You still have to do a bit of work but it's remarkably effective if you have used sensible names for the tracks. It's not AI though. I'm sure similar things will emerge for other platforms.

[kitekrazy]

My RE folder is about 40Gig but it's SymLinked to another drive, as is the factory soundbank folder. Works well on Windows but I seem to recall reading that you can't do the same on a Mac. RS really should just add an RE location setting in the prefs menu. Putting huge data files on the OS drive is just rude in this day and age.

That!

I did symlink the Reason folders like crazy. To keep track of what I did I made some notes.

Code: Select all

(((1)))
- Factory Sound Banks
- Remote
C:\ProgramData\Propellerhead Software
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS1\Propellerhead Software
(((2)))
- Optional Content like Klang, humana, Drum Supply, Loop Supply, etc.
C:\Users\XXX\Music\Propellerhead Content
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS2\Propellerhead Content
(((3)))
- Template Songs
C:\Users\XXX\Music\Reason 12
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS2\Reason 12
(((4)))
- Favorites
- Preferences
- RackExtensions
C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Roaming\Propellerhead Software
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS2\Propellerhead Software
(((5)))
- Browser Fast-Search Index file
- Graphics Cache
- Thumbnails
C:\Users\XXX\AppData\Local\Propellerhead Software
D:\D\Audio-Libs\RS4\Propellerhead Software

For that exact reason I do not understand why Reason does not support FLAC lossless compression. I converted all my samples into FLAC to save half of my disk space. Only for use in Reason I have to convert a sample back because Reason is the only pro audio software in the whole universe that can't be bothered to handle FLAC. sigh.

This is something an end user should NEVER have to do. They SHOULD do this.

This is so stone age.

[Billy+]

I'm Still Loving R11 RRP In Live

For what it‘s worth, the RRP has significantly improved with R12 in both, memory usage and size. Iirc the size of the RRP in R11 was roughly 400MB on my Mac, while it‘s now roundabout 50MB. Assumably due to improved modularization and re-use of Reason core libraries.

I'm Still Loving R11 RRP In Live

I almost would if it wasn't for the fact that Ableton Live's performance on my PC is a miserable pile of dogshit. It's like Reason and Live reversed roles - I originally bought Ableton Live 11 because Reason 12's launch day performance was unusable on my machine. Now Reason performs rock solid and smooth, whereas Live performs like ass. Go figure!

Well getting Live got me the single feature I was looking for and as I still don't need a HD version of Reason or anymore devices at the moment I'm happy to stick with R11 RRP in Live as is.

Maybe I will upgrade when R14 comes out as it still looks like nothing "new" is being added looking at the comments from others

[kitekrazy]

It's also proprietary. Throw in that price of Apple hardware and you got a pricey DAW. Then Apple decides how long you can use that hardware.

There are low-end and used Macs that can be had for a lot less than brand-new top-end Macs. Especially since transitioning to Apple Silicon, even the Macs at the bottom of the spectrum are quite powerful.

Microsoft also decides how long you can use hardware -- Windows 11 dropped support for several older machines lacking more modern features. This is no different.

New software, just like new hardware, is a choice and (in a non-business context) a matter of personal preference. Unless you do everything with Linux and open source audio production software, you have to pay to play in one form or another. How you decide to do that is up to you. Some people don't mind the "Apple tax" because they prefer the overall ecosystem, but don't believe that the same thing doesn't happen in the land of Microsoft.

People aren't rushing to upgrade to W11. That idiocy is very Apple like. On another forum there is a long discussion about when the plug will be pulled in Intel Macs.

We could cherry pick all day.

[avasopht]

Microsoft also decides how long you can use hardware -- Windows 11 dropped support for several older machines lacking more modern features. This is no different.

It's objectively different.

M series is a completely different architecture. It broke compatibility. All hell broke loose with its release. It required lots of work from developers to get their application to support M series processors. Nothing remotely similar happened with Windows 11, because it changed nothing in that respect.

Nothing changed with the software I developed when moving to Windows 11. I use either OS to develop software to target both operating systems without any changes in tooling or configuration.

Executables I've built targeting Windows 10 work perfectly fine on Windows 11 (excluding the rare case that I have directly made a dependency on having a CPU with TPM 2).

All it did was use a security feature found on new CPUs.

New software, just like new hardware, is a choice and (in a non-business context) a matter of personal preference. Unless you do everything with Linux and open source audio production software, you have to pay to play in one form or another. How you decide to do that is up to you. Some people don't mind the "Apple tax" because they prefer the overall ecosystem, but don't believe that the same thing doesn't happen in the land of Microsoft.

It does not happen (and cannot) because Microsoft has no control over the hardware or a monopoly.

You can source PC parts from the cheapest supplier, therefore there can't be a "Microsoft tax" on hardware. There never has been. In fact, the reason Microsoft gained control of the PC market was because there was no monopoly.



This is IBM's architecture. We used to call non-IBM machines IBM-Compatibles when I was younger.

But because it's completely open, companies like Compaq, Dell, AMD and Cyrix were able to get in on the architecture - pushing out the giant (IBM) in the process. That cannot happen with Apple. Apple is the sole supplier of Macs. Microsoft is not the sole supplier of Windows machines.



This is a huge false equivalence.

And I say this as a happy MacOS user who codes happily in Linux environments (some times in Windows).

[Creativemind]

The amount of times my creativity has been stopped in it's tracks by not being able to carry on due to a missing feature though, one that immediately springs to mind is not being able to audition a sample in the browser in tempo with the track or being able to 'fit to tempo' a sample automatically.

That’s certainly a nice feature to have but, in all seriousness, if that was enough to stop your creativity in its tracks, there’s probably something else killing your motivation that isn’t related to Reason.

Well, at the time it was needed, after working on a track for an hour or so and it's late, you want things that make life simpler, not faffing about tryna work something out when you're in your creative flow and tired.

[ChulaCoola]

No wanna AI. I wanna have fun myself.

That is why I bought Reason to begin with. It is FUN and I get to enjoy it. If you insist in having AI in the DAW, at least give me the option whether to have it installed or not.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Microsoft also decides how long you can use hardware -- Windows 11 dropped support for several older machines lacking more modern features. This is no different.

It's objectively different.

M series is a completely different architecture. It broke compatibility. All hell broke loose with its release. It required lots of work from developers to get their application to support M series processors. Nothing remotely similar happened with Windows 11, because it changed nothing in that respect.

Nothing changed with the software I developed when moving to Windows 11. I use either OS to develop software to target both operating systems without any changes in tooling or configuration.

Executables I've built targeting Windows 10 work perfectly fine on Windows 11 (excluding the rare case that I have directly made a dependency on having a CPU with TPM 2).

All it did was use a security feature found on new CPUs.

but don't believe that the same thing doesn't happen in the land of Microsoft.

It does not happen

I understand something very similar is about to happen with the new arm architecture on windows with the new Qualcomm arm chips? New architecture, a translation layer like Rosetta, etc. Once the majority moves to arm, will Windows support the old architecture forever? All devs will support it as well? Double the work for diminishing returns? Idk, but it sounds a lot like what’s happening with Apple after the m series. Is the same just a few years behind ‍♂️

[Reminiscence]

No wanna AI. I wanna have fun myself.

That is why I bought Reason to begin with. It is FUN and I get to enjoy it. If you insist in having AI in the DAW, at least give me the option whether to have it installed or not.

So having a friend playing backing tracks is better, why?

[Ottostrom]

No wanna AI. I wanna have fun myself.

That is why I bought Reason to begin with. It is FUN and I get to enjoy it. If you insist in having AI in the DAW, at least give me the option whether to have it installed or not.

So having a friend playing backing tracks is better, why?

Is this an AI generated question? Do we have to explain why it's fun and fulfilling to work together with friends on art projects?

[tewoc]

Back to topic please.

[parma]

Has anyone seen system requirements for 13? I don't know why Matthias was being precious about them. I'm guessing this doesn't bode well for my 10.13 Mac Pro even though it's still got plenty of juice for what I do.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Addendum to my previous post: turns out windows 10 is set to stop receiving updates and support October 14 2025. If your computer does not support it or you don’t ever want w11, with ads baked into the os, I guess macOS is your only option (unless you’re a nerd and go the Linux route)

[ksniod]

Has anyone seen system requirements for 13? I don't know why Matthias was being precious about them. I'm guessing this doesn't bode well for my 10.13 Mac Pro even though it's still got plenty of juice for what I do.

I’m too wondering if my MBP from 2012, limited to macOS 10.15, will be allowed to run Reason 13…

[SoundFactor]

Will there be FLAC support because its kind of ridiculous that Reason 12 doesn't support it?

[avasopht]

Has anyone seen system requirements for 13? I don't know why Matthias was being precious about them. I'm guessing this doesn't bode well for my 10.13 Mac Pro even though it's still got plenty of juice for what I do.

It's safe to assume they'll be the same until an announcement states otherwise.

It's not like they plan on intentionally making the DAW less efficient.



At most they could drop Intel Macs.



The GUI is the main driver for increased requirements in a DAW. Since all your DAW is doing is processing and supplying signals to your audio interface.

Nothing substantial has changed with the signal chain processing since the introduction of Record and the SSL mixer.


A change in how the GUI is rendered is a possibility. Maybe they'll introduce a dynamic Zooming feature, which could use more GPU RAM. But for the most part, it's safe to assume the requirements remain the same unless stated otherwise.


Also, bear in mind that software requirements can often be quite arbitrary.


The recommended and minimum spec and may just be the lowest spec they had available to confirm it ran without grinding to a halt each time.

[jam-s]

It could be a possibility the the new FX is using some new CPU instructions that older x86 CPUs don't support (like AVX512 or SSE4.2).

[Loque]

Will there be FLAC support because its kind of ridiculous that Reason 12 doesn't support it?

I didnt need FLAC. But if there is a need, i have plenty other solutions.

[avasopht]

It could be a possibility the the new FX is using some new CPU instructions that older x86 CPUs don't support (like AVX512 or SSE4.2).

Highly unlikely.

Besides, Reason Studios can easily supply older CPUs with a different binary, or select the AVX512 or SSE4.2 version at runtime.

No RE will ever be tied to any particular CPU feature, so it's painless for them to change things if they must.



Technically anything is possible. A private equity firm could buy every DAW and turn them into £100/mo subscription services.



But Reason Studios is in a unique position where they can easily support new SIMD instructions without making it a strict hardware requirement, but instead, a variant Reason can activate when the features are available.


Well, anyone can do that with their own plugins. But RS can do this across the board.

[plaamook]

Has anyone seen system requirements for 13? I don't know why Matthias was being precious about them. I'm guessing this doesn't bode well for my 10.13 Mac Pro even though it's still got plenty of juice for what I do.

I’m too wondering if my MBP from 2012, limited to macOS 10.15, will be allowed to run Reason 13…

Yep. Same boat.
A boat that’s already missing new version of Trash so the noose is def tightening.

[madmacman]

Will there be FLAC support because its kind of ridiculous that Reason 12 doesn't support it?

Reason already has FLAC support: it can import any FLAC file. Only missing part is the export of the mixdown.

[crimsonwarlock]

Reason already has FLAC support

Not on Windows.

[madmacman]

Reason already has FLAC support

Not on Windows.

Uh really? Didn’t expect that they did it the easy way by using system functionality. That’s indeed a flaw. I have my entire sample lib (50GB) in FLAC format. Given that I someday might revert to Windows that would be a major bummer.

[crimsonwarlock]

Didn’t expect that they did it the easy way by using system functionality.

My guess indeed is that they use the FLAC-support that is built-in in the Apple OS. Implementing native FLAC-support should be a no-brainer, especially as the FLAC format license is a free-for-everyone affair, and the algorithms are licensed under a BSD-license, meaning that commercial implementation is allowed without any restrictions.

Given that I someday might revert to Windows that would be a major bummer.

Exactly why people are asking for it

[iTrensharo]

As for this upgrade, it's a HARD NO for me. All personal opinion/takes. Others can spend their money on what they find is worth it to them.

The Sequencer Changes are basically just visual changes. They don't move the sequencer forward - functionally. The browser would have to be on par with Steinberg's MediaBay or Bitwig Studio's browser for me to care about that (and I severely doubt that will happen), and the devices they've added are redundant. I could buy Sylenth1 and a good Space Delay that isn't tied to a particular other product being installed for less.

I needed to see improvements in functionality.

This just seems like a 12.7 Update with some devices thrown in to justify charging for it - the way MAGIX throws in things like RX and Ozone Elements. That's what these devices are worth to me... As much as a 6th Melodyne Essentials activation code or Ozone Elements serial. Given they've increased prices by 25%... It's hard to justify on my end. As I've stated said elsewhere:

ARA2?
MPE or MIDI 2.0?
Video Support?
Spatial Audio?
Updates to the UI/UX of Legacy Instruments like Subtractor, Malström and NN-XT?
External Audio Editor Support?
Support for Setting a Content Installation Drive/Directory? 5GB+ REs forced onto system drive when I have 2x 2TB NVMes in a TB Enclosure for this stuff is developer trolling.
Better Workflow for FX Automation? Say hello to track bloat, and...
Track Folders?
Updated (more Sensible) Controller Mappings? They're so bad, that I don't even bother to use my controller with this DAW.
Articulations Maps? They're not just for Orchestral Libraries, these days (UJAM, etc.).
Mixer Changes? To make things make sense like setting Mute or Solo in Sequencer being mirrored properly in the Mixer?
Updated Windows Audio Support?
Scale Highlighting/Locking in the MIDI Editor? Even DAWs like ACID Pro had this feature ~15 years ago...

These upgrades are starting to feel like they're trolling us, especially at the [increased] price requested.

I don't mind paying $199 for a DAW upgrade, but it needs to be a $199 DAW upgrade for reasons other than "that's what we want you to pay." Deliver the value, and I will pay for it.

But this is not going to do it and I think it may be the end of the road for me.