High Pass Filters DON'T f...ing ruin your mixes

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RobC
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Post 11 Mar 2024

High Pass Filters on mixes are used for removing low frequency rumble - if needed.

A 24 dB/Octave HPF at 20 Hz, or a 12 at 30 Hz, IIR/analog-style/zero-latency type, is more than enough, and won't cause any audible ringing. You won't ever hear any "phase issues".

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challism
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Post 11 Mar 2024

OK thanks for sharing.
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RobC
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Post 11 Mar 2024

challism wrote:
11 Mar 2024
OK thanks for sharing.
Context:

A youtube clickbait video popped up, subtly suggesting the opposite of what I "reacted" here to it.
Granted, I didn't click, and I bet it also talks about what I do here, hence clickbait.

The problem? Many people see the clickbait. They don't watch the video, but still "learn" from the clickbait, and will think as if HPF-ing a mix would be bad.

Why didn't I add context? Cause when I did, people had sympathy for the devil. And I don't like advertising clickbait crap.

...and no, my post isn't clickbait, cause I genuinely was pissed. : /

I can't help it. Misleading clickbait is just such a cheap thing. Doesn't it piss you off?

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 11 Mar 2024

High-passing stuff can be useful and not a problem. Not high-passing stuff can equally be useful and not a problem.

Using high-pass filters doesn't have to ruin your mix, but it definitely can ruin your mix if used the wrong way. It can surely take the life out of your mix. Saying that high-pass filters don't ruin your mixes is a blanket statement, the same way as saying that they DO ruin your mixes is a blanket statement.

High-passing every track because you think you need to high-pass every track is stupid. Use your ears :puf_wink:
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RobC
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Post 11 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
11 Mar 2024
High-passing stuff can be useful and not a problem. Not high-passing stuff can equally be useful and not a problem.

Using high-pass filters doesn't have to ruin your mix, but it definitely can ruin your mix if used the wrong way. It can surely take the life out of your mix. Saying that high-pass filters don't ruin your mixes is a blanket statement, the same way as saying that they DO ruin your mixes is a blanket statement.

High-passing every track because you think you need to high-pass every track is stupid. Use your ears :puf_wink:
I think I gave a pretty straight forward example regarding a full mix, not mix channels.
Even so, I assume that the mix engineer has professional skills.
The given video is supposedly aimed at professionals.
Thus, it rather sounds like that an HPF will magically damage the sound in all cases.

Btw, if you already brought it up, I say, use both ears and eyes. You won't hear infra frequencies, or even dc offset for example.

Nothing is stupid as long as the engineer knows what and why they are doing.
I for example want to experiment during sound design with cutting out frequency bands, where not much is going on, and see (or rather hear) what it sounds like.
For example, I once brickwall-LPF'd a synthesized kick I made, at 4 or 8 kHz, and it got a really interesting sound. (I used a linear phase filter for extra artifacts.)

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bxbrkrz
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Post 11 Mar 2024



For full context. You decide. If you click and play. Nothing evil in the end imho.
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RobC
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Post 11 Mar 2024

bxbrkrz wrote:
11 Mar 2024
For full context. You decide. If you click and play. Nothing evil in the end imho.
"The problem? Many people see the clickbait. They don't watch the video, but still "learn" from the clickbait, and will think as if HPF-ing a mix would be bad.

Why didn't I add context? Cause when I did, people had sympathy for the devil. And I don't like advertising clickbait crap."

And behold! Even like this it happened. Why do I even bother?

I hope there will be some AI developed that can effectively no-pass-filter ; ) clickbait crap.

Why stand up FOR clickbait, though?

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jam-s
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Post 11 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
I hope there will be some AI developed that can effectively no-pass-filter ; ) clickbait crap.
OT, but this might be of interest for you: https://dearrow.ajay.app/ (The "AI" there is actually made up of multiple NIs ;) )

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
I think I gave a pretty straight forward example regarding a full mix, not mix channels.
Putting a high-pass filter on a whole mix is the same as putting one on each mix channel. You are high-passing everything. As I said, I would never do that.

If there is a DC-signal anywhere in your circuits, you should get rid of it even before mixing. It is a strange idea that you would record, produce, and mix a track, and then on your mix-bus or during mastering need to get rid of some DC-offset.

Edit: I see the video is actually about using filters on the individual tracks, NOT on a full mix :puf_wink:
Last edited by crimsonwarlock on 12 Mar 2024, edited 1 time in total.
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moofi
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Post 12 Mar 2024

That´s not necessarily true because when using HPF on individual channels, these are usually set to specifically suit a channel. If we are talking cleaning up a mix, HPF is quite essential and you wouldn´t really hear any low end shizzle that´s creating energy/level anyway.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
12 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
I think I gave a pretty straight forward example regarding a full mix, not mix channels.
Putting a high-pass filter on a whole mix is the same as putting one on each mix channel. You are high-passing everything. As I said, I would never do that.

If there is a DC-signal anywhere in your circuits, you should get rid of it even before mixing. It is a strange idea that you would record, produce, and mix a track, and then on your mix-bus or during mastering need to get rid of some DC-offset.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
Thus, it rather sounds like that an HPF will magically damage the sound in all cases.
The video actually makes the counter argument to that.
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madwurmz
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Post 12 Mar 2024

if it's not for bass, I cut off anything below 160 hz really hard, and I'm starting to get confused about this , do or doesnt it introduce artifacts
madwurmz from planet verbs

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madwurmz
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Post 12 Mar 2024

madwurmz wrote:
12 Mar 2024
if it's not for bass, I cut off anything below 160 hz really hard, and I'm starting to get confused about this , do or doesnt it introduce artifacts
to be more precise, I know the clickbait video and I even know why that was made, as there was an video earlier about this problem that he tries to debunk. but it almost makes sense, like using a sharp q on the filter it will introduce ugly resonance , and then I guess a solution would be to use a compressor like maybe a volume ducker on lower frequencies.

the image in this article shows the idea , to cut frequencies is to add frequencies
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Spe ... g5_7994182

since this topic became known I'm thinking about it and always look for improvements to mix quality
madwurmz from planet verbs

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huggermugger
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Post 12 Mar 2024

I highpass everything at 2KHz just to be on the safe side. And I sidechain everything too.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Mar 2024

huggermugger wrote:
12 Mar 2024
I highpass everything at 2KHz just to be on the safe side. And I sidechain everything too.
:lol:

You better low-pass at 2KHz at the same time, just to be on the safe side :puf_bigsmile:
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RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

jam-s wrote:
11 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
I hope there will be some AI developed that can effectively no-pass-filter ; ) clickbait crap.
OT, but this might be of interest for you: https://dearrow.ajay.app/ (The "AI" there is actually made up of multiple NIs ;) )
Lots of responses today, let's start one by one.

You're first ~ thanks, I'll look into it! Not off at all, btw! I do look for a way to avoid clickbait that's kind of gaslighting, too ~ I'll never miss those.

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
12 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
I think I gave a pretty straight forward example regarding a full mix, not mix channels.
Putting a high-pass filter on a whole mix is the same as putting one on each mix channel. You are high-passing everything. As I said, I would never do that.

If there is a DC-signal anywhere in your circuits, you should get rid of it even before mixing. It is a strange idea that you would record, produce, and mix a track, and then on your mix-bus or during mastering need to get rid of some DC-offset.

Edit: I see the video is actually about using filters on the individual tracks, NOT on a full mix :puf_wink:
It isn't the same, because if you apply different HPFs on a kick and bass for example, then you may get worse results due to different phase shifts and possible frequency cancellations.
This won't happen on the whole mix, or if the HPF is exactly the same on the said kick and bass.

You as a professional won't have DC issues, I as a professional, won't either. (Don't deny your professional skills, don't let impostor syndrome get to you, don't let smartasses gaslight you.) ~ Anyway, 19 years ago, as a beginner, I certainly made similar mistakes, wondering what went wrong with my mix, why were some synths having positive waves only <- that kind of thing can cause a looot of problems. So yeah, beginners, advanced, or even professional songwriters could run into similar issues. I remember in the past, if I played a loop with NNXT, I noticed that some bug happened, and there was a static flat line visibly above silence. I never heard it! But I saw it in Goldwave. Tinker around with Subtractor's phase offset, combined with FM, and you can end up with a mostly positive or negative waveform. And the list goes on as to how problems can happen that a simple HPF at 20 Hz can solve.
If you work for a client, you totally may be presented with such issue, and they may only be able to provide you a simple mix. And yes, I know that then it technically should only be mastered, but you get the idea.

I don't care about the clickbait crap, cause I know that it kind of gaslights people. Even so, it's misleading.

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

moofi wrote:
12 Mar 2024
That´s not necessarily true because when using HPF on individual channels, these are usually set to specifically suit a channel. If we are talking cleaning up a mix, HPF is quite essential and you wouldn´t really hear any low end shizzle that´s creating energy/level anyway.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
12 Mar 2024


Putting a high-pass filter on a whole mix is the same as putting one on each mix channel. You are high-passing everything. As I said, I would never do that.

If there is a DC-signal anywhere in your circuits, you should get rid of it even before mixing. It is a strange idea that you would record, produce, and mix a track, and then on your mix-bus or during mastering need to get rid of some DC-offset.
Correct! One may record a finger snap, close to the microphone. It will contain a lot off bass content. I personally wouldn't want that, so it's the first thing I'd filter.
Other times a crash cymbal may have some odd booming to it. Do I want that in a mix? No. Not personally.
Can a solo acoustic guitar recording have every natural bassy taps left in without filtering? Absolutely!
Again, it's always up to the engineer, as long as they know what and why they do.

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
12 Mar 2024
RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
Thus, it rather sounds like that an HPF will magically damage the sound in all cases.
The video actually makes the counter argument to that.
The clickbait itself just says essentially, HPF is crap.

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

madwurmz wrote:
12 Mar 2024
if it's not for bass, I cut off anything below 160 hz really hard, and I'm starting to get confused about this , do or doesnt it introduce artifacts
If it's not a resonant filter, then there should be no audible artifacts. But mind that different HPF settings absolutely can cause problems on bass frequencies, as I mentioned a few comments earlier.

Only cut what you don't need. Make sure not to cut into fundamental frequencies.
For melodic elements, you may just set the HPF below the frequency of the lowest note for example.

Don't be confused. Never let gaslighting get to you.

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

madwurmz wrote:
12 Mar 2024
madwurmz wrote:
12 Mar 2024
if it's not for bass, I cut off anything below 160 hz really hard, and I'm starting to get confused about this , do or doesnt it introduce artifacts
to be more precise, I know the clickbait video and I even know why that was made, as there was an video earlier about this problem that he tries to debunk. but it almost makes sense, like using a sharp q on the filter it will introduce ugly resonance , and then I guess a solution would be to use a compressor like maybe a volume ducker on lower frequencies.

the image in this article shows the idea , to cut frequencies is to add frequencies
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Spe ... g5_7994182

since this topic became known I'm thinking about it and always look for improvements to mix quality
Well, sharp EQ settings are another thing. A 24 dB/octave HPF is usually perfectly enough, and shouldn't cause problematic resonances.
And yes, even a filter can make a sound louder, but that's a small price to pay in exchange for removing crap you don't want. You can find a good Dan Worrall video about that.

I used to wonder 19 years ago, why a high, melodic lead synth of mine had weird bass punches to it. It's something I never liked. There, a gentle HPF is ideal.

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

huggermugger wrote:
12 Mar 2024
I highpass everything at 2KHz just to be on the safe side. And I sidechain everything too.
Not everyone thinks you're being sarcastic! Some may take you seriously!

RobC
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Post 12 Mar 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
12 Mar 2024
huggermugger wrote:
12 Mar 2024
I highpass everything at 2KHz just to be on the safe side. And I sidechain everything too.
:lol:

You better low-pass at 2KHz at the same time, just to be on the safe side :puf_bigsmile:
See, I knew there will be sympathy for the devil.

I learned a little about marketing, and psychology in this thread.

Otherwise? Nothing new.

That said, if there's nothing to cut under say, 30 Hz, but when your kick and bass or snare hit together in a weak sounding way, but you don't want to change it, then you may try to use a filter on one of the sounds, and see if it shifts the phase of certain frequencies, thus reducing, or eliminating frequency cancellation, and resulting in a much better, punchier sound.

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bxbrkrz
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Post 12 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
11 Mar 2024
bxbrkrz wrote:
11 Mar 2024
For full context. You decide. If you click and play. Nothing evil in the end imho.
"The problem? Many people see the clickbait. They don't watch the video, but still "learn" from the clickbait, and will think as if HPF-ing a mix would be bad.

Why didn't I add context? Cause when I did, people had sympathy for the devil. And I don't like advertising clickbait crap."

And behold! Even like this it happened. Why do I even bother?

I hope there will be some AI developed that can effectively no-pass-filter ; ) clickbait crap.

Why stand up FOR clickbait, though?
The youtuber is saying that water can kill you if you drink it from a high-pressure fire hose. That's all.
You and the youtuber agree. And I agree with both of you.
By the way, your thread is proof click baiting works. This is why you'll keep replying on the thread everybody already agrees with you, including the youtuber.

Find inner peace by watching the damn video :puf_smile:

Clickbaiting works because it leverages various psychological principles and human behaviors. Here are some reasons why it's effective:

1. **Curiosity Gap**: Clickbait headlines often provide just enough information to make the reader curious, but not enough to satisfy that curiosity without clicking. This exploits the psychological phenomenon known as the "curiosity gap," where people are motivated to resolve gaps in their knowledge.

2. **Emotional Appeal**: Clickbait often uses emotional triggers to grab attention. By appealing to strong emotions such as excitement, anger, or fear, these headlines can increase the likelihood that someone will click on them to experience or understand the emotional context better.

3. **Over-Promise and Exaggeration**: Many clickbait titles exaggerate the content of the article or promise more than the article can deliver. This over-promise can create an expectation in the reader's mind that clicking will lead to some significant revelation or entertainment.

4. **Instant Gratification**: In the age of the internet, people seek quick and easy access to information and entertainment. Clickbait titles often suggest that the content will immediately satisfy this desire, whether it's by promising a quick laugh, shocking information, or an unbelievable story.

5. **Social Proof and FOMO (Fear of Missing Out)**: If a clickbait article is widely shared or appears to be popular, it may create a sense of social proof, suggesting that the content is worth engaging with. Additionally, people may click on these articles due to FOMO, fearing they might miss out on something significant or culturally relevant.

6. **Algorithmic Amplification**: Social media algorithms and search engines often prioritize content that engages users, measured by clicks, likes, and shares. Clickbait headlines are designed to maximize these interactions, leading to more visibility and a self-reinforcing cycle of clicks and shares.

In summary, clickbait works because it effectively exploits human psychology and the dynamics of online content consumption. However, the downside is that it can lead to a decline in trust and content quality, as users may feel misled or disappointed by the content behind the clickbait.
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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Mar 2024

RobC wrote:
12 Mar 2024
The clickbait itself just says essentially, HPF is crap.
So, you're starting a topic about filtering, based on a video that actually makes your point (you didn't look at it, right?), but you're actually irked about clickbait titles :lol:

However, I've never seen any pro-engineer putting a HPF on a complete mix. Problem-solving is normally done during tracking and mixing. The final mix is not the place to do that. If there is a problem with a complete mix, go back to the mixing stage (or even re-track stuff, it happens all the time).
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