--TRACKSPACE 3-- a trackspace type sidechain frequency ducking device using REs only

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kezzah
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Post 12 Feb 2024

Hey reason talk people This is my first post here !
I've made a combinator2 that is basically a reason version of Trackspacer it works in the same way as trackspacer i've omitted the midside stuff because because the amount of devices and cables would have got out of hand .
To make this work you will need the RE302 graphic equaliser and the RE60 spectrum analyser both by Red Rock Sound and the TMA-1 comentator these three rack extensions are all free.
The side chain input goes into the first channel of either the line mixer at the top of the devices ot the one at the bottom of the devices
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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Feb 2024

This is something I've been considering doing myself, so I downloaded it to see what you did. Just looking at the inside of the combi, it looks unnecessarily complex to me. Firstly, why are there four mini-mixers in there, while there are just two signals to consider, the signal to process and the side-chain. And I see two places to connect the side-chain, what's up with that? Secondly (but this is only my opinion), as you are using the RE302 and RE60 from Red Rock, why not using the RE 180 that they made specifically for this kind of application (instead of the 32 Sweepers)?
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kezzah
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Post 12 Feb 2024

Ok to start off the four line mixers were just a quick way for me to adjust levels they are pretty low impact so not really an issue the reason i put two side chain inputs is all to do with where you are taking your sidechain from they are identical it's just easier to plug in from the bottom if you are draggin cables from below
As for why i didn't use the RE180 it's because i am a complete and utter idiot who didnt even think of it ... just done some tests and there is no differance in the cpu while its running but there is quite a differance while it's idle so ill update this file as soon as i'm finished
thank you

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 12 Feb 2024

kezzah wrote:
12 Feb 2024
Ok to start off the four line mixers were just a quick way for me to adjust levels they are pretty low impact so not really an issue the reason i put two side chain inputs is all to do with where you are taking your sidechain from they are identical it's just easier to plug in from the bottom if you are draggin cables from below
Thanks for the clarification.
kezzah wrote:
12 Feb 2024
As for why i didn't use the RE180 it's because i am a complete and utter idiot who didnt even think of it ... just done some tests and there is no differance in the cpu while its running but there is quite a differance while it's idle so ill update this file as soon as i'm finished
thank you
I did a quick setup with RE180 and found the same thing with all the Sweepers taking CPU while idle in your initial version (maybe a bug in Sweeper). A small tip: I used only three RE180 units. Just connect both lowest bands to one output, and the same with both highest bands. RE180 has three outputs for each part, and you can scale the outer bands a little. Worked great here.

Thanks for putting this up, it triggered me to dive in and do what I had been thinking about for a while now :thumbup:
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kezzah
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Post 12 Feb 2024

Ok I've now had it up against Trackspacer it's taken quite a bit of fiddling about to get decent threshold setting also the fastest release is quite a bit quite a bit slower than the the fastest on Trackspacer and the sweeper but I think it's passable .I've also changed the routing slightly so that the solo includes the filter the same as trackspacer

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kezzah
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Post 12 Feb 2024

It looks like I'm past the time limit on editing the original post so here is the download for the updated version
-- Trackspace 3 -- mk 2.cmb.zip
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crimsonwarlock
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Post 13 Feb 2024

All this is a fun exercise. But I just realized that Carve EQ Ducker is actually the exact same effect, but with more bands (48), a nice display showing what goes on (similar to TrackSpacer), and using less than half of the CPU-load from the combinator. I always overlooked it because I thought it was 'just' a dynamic EQ with one band (similar to DQ that I already had). It also doesn't have the greatest graphics, but it works nicely. So I bought it yesterday and already used it in my current project.

Your combinator, however, is a great option for those that don't want or can spend money on another RE.

Carve is in the shop here: https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... eq-ducker/
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kezzah
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Post 14 Feb 2024

Yeah Carve is full of bugs and got abandoned a long time ago

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 14 Feb 2024

kezzah wrote:
14 Feb 2024
Yeah Carve is full of bugs and got abandoned a long time ago
It is indeed abandoned (by the dev). I'm not concerned with that when stuff just works. And RS makes sure ALL existing REs will work in future Reason versions, so in that regard no RE is ever completely abandoned.

But I'm not aware of any bugs. I used it right away in my current project without any issues, it works fine. There was quite a bit of discussion about the level settings, and there was one bug reported, both were solved in an update. So, 'full of bugs' seems hyperbole to me.
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jam-s
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Post 14 Feb 2024

IIrc there were some bugs with respect to high sample rates or changing the sample rate in a session, but I'm not sure if those got resolved.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 15 Feb 2024

jam-s wrote:
14 Feb 2024
IIrc there were some bugs with respect to high sample rates or changing the sample rate in a session, but I'm not sure if those got resolved.
I don't use high sample rates, and therefore I don't have to change the sample rate either :puf_wink:

This combinator solution, although quite nice, does use a fair bit of CPU, so for that reason it's not an option for me. Besides, the Red Rock REs that are used are rather old as well, has anyone tested their performance at high sample rates?
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NMHindman
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Post 29 Feb 2024

The above original post reminded me of a technique I saw on YouTube long ago, using ONLY the MClass compressor and eq., and clever usage of combinator features (the old combinator, at that). I've finally found it, -it's from 10 years ago, but doesn't it do exactly what is needed here?


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wendylou
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Post 29 Feb 2024

crimsonwarlock wrote:
14 Feb 2024
kezzah wrote:
14 Feb 2024
Yeah Carve is full of bugs and got abandoned a long time ago
It is indeed abandoned (by the dev). I'm not concerned with that when stuff just works. And RS makes sure ALL existing REs will work in future Reason versions, so in that regard no RE is ever completely abandoned.

But I'm not aware of any bugs. I used it right away in my current project without any issues, it works fine. There was quite a bit of discussion about the level settings, and there was one bug reported, both were solved in an update. So, 'full of bugs' seems hyperbole to me.
I agree with you about Carve. Despite reports about issues that limited its usefulness, I have always been able to use it for frequency-dependant sidechaining to great effect. When I demoed Trackspace, I performed a detailed A/B comparison with Carve and noted that Trackspace introduced noticeable phasing whereas Carve did not.
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crimsonwarlock
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Post 29 Feb 2024

NMHindman wrote:
29 Feb 2024
...but doesn't it do exactly what is needed here?

Not exactly. What's shown here is basically how to set up a dynamic EQ in Reason, but with only one band. This is similar to Omega DEQ, which has all this in one nice RE package. What these solutions don't do, is figure out which frequencies you need to attenuate for a given source, as you have to dial in the frequency band that is attenuated. And it is still one band, so incapable of handling any spectral information.

What this combinator does, and indeed Carve EQ RE and TrackSpacer VST do, is often called spectral side chaining. For that, you need a whole bunch of bands that scan across the whole spectrum. This is actually closer to what a vocoder does, but in reverse. Just think of the vocoder carrier as the track you want to attenuate, and the carrier as the side chain, and imagine it works in the opposite direction.
wendylou wrote:
29 Feb 2024
I agree with you about Carve. Despite reports about issues that limited its usefulness, I have always been able to use it for frequency-dependant sidechaining to great effect. When I demoed Trackspace, I performed a detailed A/B comparison with Carve and noted that Trackspace introduced noticeable phasing whereas Carve did not.
Thanks for the confirmation, and the comparison with TrackSpacer (if that is the one you are talking about).
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NMHindman
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Post 14 Mar 2024

It's a VST, but perhaps a free Trackspace alternative?


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Noise
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Post 14 Mar 2024

Beware, "TheMasker" adds a lot of latency, ~2000 ms.
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