Protools goes back to perpetual licences

[crimsonwarlock]

It seems they finally concluded that going subscription-only was not the best idea.

[Jagwah]

It seems they finally concluded that going subscription-only was not the best idea.

Ha!!!

[Aosta]

[Loque]

ezgif.com-optimize.gif (991.06 KiB) Viewed 14547 times

[huggermugger]

The user base for ProTools (high-end multitrack audio recording, audio post-production) is much different than the user base for Reason (hobbyists and bedroom "producers") that there may be legit business reasons why Avid would return to perpetual licenses while Reason continues with the subscription model. And nothing I see in this forum or in the FB groups suggests that the Reason crowd gives a damn one way or the other - many of us (not me) openly prefer subscription while others (me) hope the perpetual option doesn't disappear. Avid's backtracking is no indication that Reason is making a mistake.

[PhillipOrdonez]

The user base for ProTools (high-end multitrack audio recording, audio post-production) is much different than the user base for Reason (hobbyists and bedroom "producers") that there may be legit business reasons why Avid would return to perpetual licenses while Reason continues with the subscription model. And nothing I see in this forum or in the FB groups suggests that the Reason crowd gives a damn one way or the other - many of us (not me) openly prefer subscription while others (me) hope the perpetual option doesn't disappear. Avid's backtracking is no indication that Reason is making a mistake.

Who said Reason is making a mistake? They would be making a huge mistake if they went subscription only. But they haven't and most hope they won't. That's the take literally everyone has, so why do you talk about it as if Reason has already made the mistake which in the real world they don't seem to be making or planning on making? What is the purpose of your wording?

[PhillipOrdonez]

As for the thread: 🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳 we, the people, are winning against the subscription only brainrot!!!! 🥳🥳🥳🥳

[crimsonwarlock]

The user base for ProTools (high-end multitrack audio recording, audio post-production) is much different than the user base for Reason (hobbyists and bedroom "producers") that there may be legit business reasons why Avid would return to perpetual licenses while Reason continues with the subscription model.

As far as I have heard, Avid does not remove the subscription option. It has been subscription-only for quite some time now, and this move suggests that subscription-ONLY is not a good idea.

Who said Reason is making a mistake? They would be making a huge mistake if they went subscription only.

^^^ This.

The mistake is not to have a subscription option, it is to have ONLY a subscription option.

[TritoneAddiction]

Well I for one am happy to see any subscription model failing, especially in the DAW world. Any sign of the subscription trend breaking is great news in my eyes. I've had enough of hearing "It's just where things are going" like we should just accept things getting shitty.
Even though I'm not a Pro Tools user, things like this and the Waves Audio fiasco sends a signal to other companies that most people won't play the subscription game.

I view this is as victory. I'm celebrating tonight!

[PhillipOrdonez]

Well I for one am happy to see any subscription model failing, especially in the DAW world. Any sign of the subscription trend breaking is great news in my eyes. I've had enough of hearing "It's just where things are going" like we should just accept things getting shitty.
Even though I'm not a Pro Tools user, things like this and the Waves Audio fiasco sends a signal to other companies that most people won't play the subscription game.

I view this is as victory. I'm celebrating tonight!

Yes! Exactly!

[crimsonwarlock]

Even though I'm not a Pro Tools user, things like this and the Waves Audio fiasco sends a signal to other companies that most people won't play the subscription game.

My view as well

[joeyluck]

I think the trend and strategy is clear—sales of perpetual licenses start to slow and drop as subscription sales pick up, companies go subscription only, then they bring back perpetual licenses and it's a new shiny thing again. Then people buy it lol. It's all a part of the plan and something they had waiting in their back pocket, just like a planned sale.

[crimsonwarlock]

It's all a part of the plan and something they had waiting in their back pocket, just like a planned sale.

Funny assessment

But I think the Waves debacle proves you wrong

[joeyluck]

It's all a part of the plan and something they had waiting in their back pocket, just like a planned sale.

Funny assessment

But I think the Waves debacle proves you wrong

But the Waves "debacle" seemed even more planned to me.

When a business / product owner makes a decision to go "subscription only", a business of that size who isn't new to software, they would've put plenty of thought into it and be aware of what the reception would be. Every software company is aware of the Internet's opinion about subscriptions.

They would've had meetings to discuss what might be a rough rollout and the need to see see how things evolve with their new business model.

What we all saw and what Waves saw in comments in response to their announcement was completely expected. Then for them to turn around and say they changed their minds before giving it any time, IMO shows that it was planned all along.

It was all just a strategy to make you hate subscriptions more and hate their WUP less and hate their constant sales less.

[crimsonwarlock]

But the Waves "debacle" seemed even more planned to me.

When a business / product owner makes a decision to go "subscription only", a business of that size who isn't new to software, they would've put plenty of thought into it and be aware of what the reception would be. Every software company is aware of the Internet's opinion about subscriptions.

They would've had meetings to discuss what might be a rough rollout and the need to see see how things evolve with their new business model.

What we all saw and what Waves saw in comments in response to their announcement was completely expected. Then for them to turn around and say they changed their minds before giving it any time, IMO shows that it was planned all along.

It was all just a strategy to make you hate subscriptions more and hate their WUP less and hate their constant sales less.

So, you think Waves loosing a quite substantial amount of their customers, was "planned" as well?

The reality is that their WUP was indeed hated already by many, and a lot of customers decided that this last debacle was the straw that broke the camel's back. PA gained a lot of new customers overnight. I don't see the planning in that

[TritoneAddiction]

But the Waves "debacle" seemed even more planned to me.

When a business / product owner makes a decision to go "subscription only", a business of that size who isn't new to software, they would've put plenty of thought into it and be aware of what the reception would be. Every software company is aware of the Internet's opinion about subscriptions.

They would've had meetings to discuss what might be a rough rollout and the need to see see how things evolve with their new business model.

What we all saw and what Waves saw in comments in response to their announcement was completely expected. Then for them to turn around and say they changed their minds before giving it any time, IMO shows that it was planned all along.

It was all just a strategy to make you hate subscriptions more and hate their WUP less and hate their constant sales less.

If it was some sort of cunning plan, I think it failed miserably. I saw sooo many people who decided to leave Waves all together after that, even after they took it all back and went back to the old ways. It seemed many long term customers thought Waves had already "showed their true colors" with their behavior and the trust was broken at that point. People started looking for VSTs to replace their Waves stuff.
Personally I think the decision makers at Waves just got too greedy and hoped that enough people would go along with their new crap. Luckily it didn't happen. And it was glorious to witness.

[avasopht]

The user base for ProTools (high-end multitrack audio recording, audio post-production) is much different than the user base for Reason (hobbyists and bedroom "producers") that there may be legit business reasons why Avid would return to perpetual licenses while Reason continues with the subscription model. And nothing I see in this forum or in the FB groups suggests that the Reason crowd gives a damn one way or the other - many of us (not me) openly prefer subscription while others (me) hope the perpetual option doesn't disappear. Avid's backtracking is no indication that Reason is making a mistake.

Well, Reason Studios clearly disagree.

[avasopht]

But the Waves "debacle" seemed even more planned to me.

Don't underestimate how much damage one bull-headed CEO can make.

It's happened dozens of times over.

Nokia. Microsoft's Mobile. Blackberry. Psion. Dozens of $10 million+ marketing disasters from billion-dollar companies. New Coke. Xerox. Kodak. IBM losing the PC market. Sega (Mega Drive/Genesis expansion - Saturn era).

The list is endless.

[joeyluck]

But the Waves "debacle" seemed even more planned to me.

When a business / product owner makes a decision to go "subscription only", a business of that size who isn't new to software, they would've put plenty of thought into it and be aware of what the reception would be. Every software company is aware of the Internet's opinion about subscriptions.

They would've had meetings to discuss what might be a rough rollout and the need to see see how things evolve with their new business model.

What we all saw and what Waves saw in comments in response to their announcement was completely expected. Then for them to turn around and say they changed their minds before giving it any time, IMO shows that it was planned all along.

It was all just a strategy to make you hate subscriptions more and hate their WUP less and hate their constant sales less.

If it was some sort of cunning plan, I think it failed miserably. I saw sooo many people who decided to leave Waves all together after that, even after they took it all back and went back to the old ways. It seemed many long term customers thought Waves had already "showed their true colors" with their behavior and the trust was broken at that point. People started looking for VSTs to replace their Waves stuff.
Personally I think the decision makers at Waves just got too greedy and hoped that enough people would go along with their new crap. Luckily it didn't happen. And it was glorious to witness.

Yeah it was a matter of a day or two that they announced and then retracted. There was nothing to see in terms of people subscribing or not. My point being is that if it was a true plan, they would've stuck it out.

I also remember very well the reaction to Reason Studios announcing Reason+ as an OPTION lol. Lots of people claimed they would be leaving Reason (that didn't leave). I don't believe the majority of the comments from anybody on the internet about jumping ship from any piece of software.

[avasopht]

Yeah it was a matter of a day or two that they announced and then retracted. There was nothing to see in terms of people subscribing or not. My point being is that if it was a true plan, they would've stuck it out.

I also remember very well the reaction to Reason Studios announcing Reason+ as an OPTION lol. Lots of people claimed they would be leaving Reason (that didn't leave). I don't believe the majority of the comments from anybody on the internet about jumping ship from any piece of software.

The difference is that people's problem with Reason+ was that they feared it would mean the end of perpetual licenses.

Nobody actually cares that there are other ways to access the software if it doesn't change anything for them.

There's a very big difference between:

1. You can also subscribe.
... versus ...
2. You can no longer purchase perpetual licenses, and there will be no more upgrades and bug fixes for perpetual licenses.

People make mistakes.

Given the common fear of subscriptions is that "it will clearly make more money and force people to subscribe for life", suggests that it's not a farfetched idea for someone to hold if they genuinely believe it will be more profitable.

You have two things at play:

1. Is it really feasible to end perpetual licenses and force everyone over to subscription?
... versus ...
2. Could a CEO (or enough people in upper management) believe this and pounce?

The problem with subscriptions is that it's really easy to stop, and requires constant justification to continue. I've had a free Reason+ subscription for 6 months, which I didn't even use. I don't know how I managed to do that with Objekt and all the other goodies. But when it came time to start paying, it was an easy no. If it were a perpetual license, I'd have already paid for it.

I cancelled my EWQL CC subscription too and bought Komplete Ultimate CE and Akai Instrument Collection (equivalent to about 10 years of an EWQL CC sub). Why? The license is mine for life, and I expect to live longer than 10 years. Unless I was making a living from it, I would find it hard to justify, and most people aren't making a living from their music.

It's a hobby.

[joeyluck]

I'm just saying that the loud voices threatening to jump ship from any software will always be there, whether it's optional subscriptions, subscription only, or just something else.

Like I always say, vote with your wallet and upgrade your perpetual software. There's users on old versions of software who try to make arguments against subscriptions, while subscriptions sell well and those users remain on old versions. That I don't get.

[avasopht]

I'm just saying that the loud voices threatening to jump ship from any software will always be there, whether it's optional subscriptions, subscription only, or just something else.

Like I always say, vote with your wallet and upgrade your perpetual software. There's users on old versions of software who try to make arguments against subscriptions, while subscriptions sell well and those users remain on old versions. That I don't get.

Joey, it's not just a matter of "loud voices".

In business and marketing, there is the final fact of actually selling your product or service.

The loud voices will always be there, but the wallets won't be if the wrong bet is made on subscription-only.

This is why many products haven't made that decision.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the "loud voices" either. There's a graveyard full of market leaders who didn't listen to those "loud voices" and are now nothing more than footnotes.

Xerox was a verb, never forget that!

As for the users on old versions - not upgrading is voting with your wallet. Maybe they spent more money on tacos, guitar strings, or, dare I say it, getting into bed with another DAW!! But it's wise to listen to those exercising restraint.

[joeyluck]

avasopht, I think you're totally misunderstanding what I'm talking about. You're getting into pro vs anti subscription and opinions about that. I'm talking about strategy and what I feel is planned and understood by businesses with over 30 years experience in the industry. You can disagree with that if you want, but I'm not making an argument for or against subscriptions.

Case in point, Reason Studios had a real plan for a subscription and they stuck with it, regardless of receiving the expected pushback, because it was a real solid plan. I do not believe that Waves had a real plan to go subscription only, when they never saw it through and canceled it a day or two after announcing. There were some fires on the internet, but there was nothing I saw that wasn't to be expected. My opinion is that it was either planned that way, or planned very poorly overnight. That and/or they had the cancel card in their back pocket and were just testing the waters to see how people would react.

[joeyluck]

As for the users on old versions - not upgrading is voting with your wallet. Maybe they spent more money on tacos, guitar strings, or, dare I say it, getting into bed with another DAW!! But it's wise to listen to those exercising restraint.

Not when there are subscriptions being sold. Might've worked before, but now the lack of a user upgrading is overshadowed by the user subscribing. It only makes the subscription numbers look stronger. It maybe makes it look like people don't want perpetual licenses.

Newer generations are more accepting of subscriptions and many prefer it. Many companies are seeing this and my guess is that they will continue to test the waters from time to time until one day it might stick. But we gotta show them that we want perpetual licenses by upgrading

[avasopht]

Well, this is the nature of discussions of complex matters when there is a lot of uncertainty.

We're all making guesses about the future, I guess.

In a nutshell, what I'm saying is:

(1)

"Loud voices" threatening to jump ship if there are OPTIONAL subscriptions ... but not jumping ship ...

... does not imply "loud voices" threatening to jump ship if there are ONLY subscriptions ... will not jump ship on that event.

It's a very different proposition.

(2)

I've got no crystal ball, but companies can make mistakes, and no matter how serious they were about their plan will recalculate if their hypothesis is proven wrong (otherwise they go the way of Xerox, RIM, Microsoft Mobile and Blockbuster).

Reason Studios has dropped lots of products and services they were "serious" about when they didn't work (which is what companies do when their plans don't bear any fruit).

(3)

Subscription-only is not an inevitability for every single type of product and service - no matter the generation. Price point and product/service perception matter.

(4)

I'm not merely arguing for/against subscription vs perpetual, but pointing out the underlying nature of what people's aversions are, and how it shapes the conversation with respect to the uncertain future and how they responded to actual events.