invert automation

[vrbi]

hello, have been strugling with automating wedge force matcha VST - where "mute" button sometimes does the opposite as was supposed to (plays open strings when muted or mutes when not pressed) - so my recorded automation often is inverted.

automation values are in this case just 0 - 1 (off - on), but when this happens I need to redraw them by hand again - and there should be much simplier and practical way just to "invert" the values to their opposite.
is there such a technique, trick or workaround?

thank you

[selig]

There is no single command I’m aware of but here’s how I’d work around the issue.
I would first select just the top or just the bottom values (zoom out and draw around just the points you want). Then I’d use the inspector to invert the values by typing the new values. Then carefully holding shift, draw around ALL the values which will ‘reverse’ the selection. From there type in the new ‘opposite’ value for these and you’re done. Basically just four steps, but goes fast once you ‘get’ the concept.

[vrbi]

thank you,
tried it and it kinda works, but not exactly as expected - like there are few points lost in the proces, so I got saw peeks instead square "wave", like in the screenshot below.
this is funny.

in case of 0/1 values this still might be a shorter way than manual redrawing, but what about more complex curves?
I'd hoped for some mirroring script in reason to do that. not only reverse notes.

[selig]

thank you,
tried it and it kinda works, but not exactly as expected - like there are few points lost in the proces, so I got saw peeks instead square "wave", like in the screenshot below.
this is funny.

in case of 0/1 values this still might be a shorter way than manual redrawing, but what about more complex curves?
I'd hoped for some mirroring script in reason to do that. not only reverse notes.

Looks like you missed some points when selecting - or there was no data to invert in which case NO solution would prevent this from happening. If the data isn’t there it can’t be inverted!
You didn’t show the original in “edit mode” (where you can see the control/data points), so I can’t tell for sure.

[vrbi]

thank you,
tried it and it kinda works, but not exactly as expected - like there are few points lost in the proces, so I got saw peeks instead square "wave", like in the screenshot below.
this is funny.

in case of 0/1 values this still might be a shorter way than manual redrawing, but what about more complex curves?
I'd hoped for some mirroring script in reason to do that. not only reverse notes.

Looks like you missed some points when selecting - or there was no data to invert in which case NO solution would prevent this from happening. If the data isn’t there it can’t be inverted!
You didn’t show the original in “edit mode” (where you can see the control/data points), so I can’t tell for sure.

yes, I didn't show the original edit mode as it is not possible in reason to have both automation clips open in edit mode, so the screenshot is made on the new one (on the right) with all the changes.
but as logic compells it - those data points are at every sharp point, where the line breaks or changes direction, as simple as that.
you just have to imagine each corner having a little white circle, that's all/

but I've tried it few times more and at last it caught all the points, so it's ok now.
jus tdon't know why it didn't do like this on the first try, it's impossible to miss some, if they're in the line of selection, they all have to be counted for.


but what about any automation curve?
that's bigger challenge, how to invert values on something snake-like curved?

[ljekio]

Reaper can it.
I would do it in Reaper and move it back to Reason.
Why not CV? Because when recording from CV back to MIDI CC, the automation will be completely different from what it was originally. Reason is not yet able to record CC from external equipment at least with the sampling rate of MIDI itself.

[crimsonwarlock]

How about dropping the VST into a combinator, assigning a combi control to the VST control you are automating. Then reverse the combi control and drop the automation in an automation lane for the combi control you've assigned. No editing of the curve needed.

[vrbi]

How about dropping the VST into a combinator, assigning a combi control to the VST control you are automating. Then reverse the combi control and drop the automation in an automation lane for the combi control you've assigned. No editing of the curve needed.

this has puzzled my head, still trying to understand
seems I'm not familiar with combinator this much - how is possible reversing it's outer controls to make the automation lane being played in inverted state... guess I'll have to learn a lot more about it.
I suppose it's meant to have some dynamic control over what's coming into combinator via automation, rather than simple on/off control.
gonna need to find some tutorials on this.

[crimsonwarlock]

How about dropping the VST into a combinator, assigning a combi control to the VST control you are automating. Then reverse the combi control and drop the automation in an automation lane for the combi control you've assigned. No editing of the curve needed.

this has puzzled my head, still trying to understand
seems I'm not familiar with combinator this much - how is possible reversing it's outer controls to make the automation lane being played in inverted state... guess I'll have to learn a lot more about it.
I suppose it's meant to have some dynamic control over what's coming into combinator via automation, rather than simple on/off control.
gonna need to find some tutorials on this.

In the picture below, at the right top you see where you set the range from 0% to 100%, you can drag the handles in opposite directions: 100% to the left and 0% to the right. This effectively changes the direction. If you do this, the range scale will turn white. Just try it

2023-07-16 12_54_19-Window.png (327.84 KiB) Viewed 1896 times

I tried it with the setup in the picture and it works. I automated a button on the synth, and subsequently moved that to the combinator control. As I used a rotary on the combinator, I got an error that the control is different (rotary instead of switch) and Reason gives the option to "correct alien curve" which solved that. Of course, you can simply use a button on the combi, as you can reverse those the same way. So this works with buttons and range controls. No need for any editing of your automation curve.

Combinators are awesome

[selig]

Reaper can it.
I would do it in Reaper and move it back to Reason.
Why not CV? Because when recording from CV back to MIDI CC, the automation will be completely different from what it was originally. Reason is not yet able to record CC from external equipment at least with the sampling rate of MIDI itself.

I find MIDI’s sample rate to be almost unusable, at least with the gear I have (converting CV from Reason to MIDI and then to physical CV for Eurorack). It’s fine for slower LFO rates, under around 5 Hz for example. I guess this is why many folks use audio from DAW to hardware CV.

[ljekio]

I find MIDI’s sample rate to be almost unusable, at least with the gear I have (converting CV from Reason to MIDI and then to physical CV for Eurorack). It’s fine for slower LFO rates, under around 5 Hz for example. I guess this is why many folks use audio from DAW to hardware CV.

However, if I wanted to record a midi CC by dumping the CV to the midi out and recording to the Reaper, I would end up with the envelope I originally had. But not in the case of Reason, who will most likely turn square envelopes into triangular ones.
I've even started here a couple of threads about this flaw. Kinda there:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7495057

[vrbi]

this has puzzled my head, still trying to understand
seems I'm not familiar with combinator this much - how is possible reversing it's outer controls to make the automation lane being played in inverted state... guess I'll have to learn a lot more about it.
I suppose it's meant to have some dynamic control over what's coming into combinator via automation, rather than simple on/off control.
gonna need to find some tutorials on this.

In the picture below, at the right top you see where you set the range from 0% to 100%, you can drag the handles in opposite directions: 100% to the left and 0% to the right. This effectively changes the direction. If you do this, the range scale will turn white. Just try it


2023-07-16 12_54_19-Window.png


I tried it with the setup in the picture and it works. I automated a button on the synth, and subsequently moved that to the combinator control. As I used a rotary on the combinator, I got an error that the control is different (rotary instead of switch) and Reason gives the option to "correct alien curve" which solved that. Of course, you can simply use a button on the combi, as you can reverse those the same way. So this works with buttons and range controls. No need for any editing of your automation curve.

Combinators are awesome

so I took my sweet time to delve into combinators and yes - it's ingenious
they're incredible as far as their concept goes. thank you! this opens a whole different path from now on, how to use reason.
except some weird behaviour here and there - like when I combine my wedge matcha (tone generator) with neural dsp amp (effect) into combinator - it gives out different sound than being plugged together the same way without a combinator shell I don't get it, why it behaves differently, when the path and cabling is the same as before. (like it was loosing input gain)
was trying to make myself some useful combi setup for later use - but it seems I'll have to stuck with starting from a scratch method everytime again

[selig]

In the picture below, at the right top you see where you set the range from 0% to 100%, you can drag the handles in opposite directions: 100% to the left and 0% to the right. This effectively changes the direction. If you do this, the range scale will turn white. Just try it


2023-07-16 12_54_19-Window.png


I tried it with the setup in the picture and it works. I automated a button on the synth, and subsequently moved that to the combinator control. As I used a rotary on the combinator, I got an error that the control is different (rotary instead of switch) and Reason gives the option to "correct alien curve" which solved that. Of course, you can simply use a button on the combi, as you can reverse those the same way. So this works with buttons and range controls. No need for any editing of your automation curve.

Combinators are awesome

so I took my sweet time to delve into combinators and yes - it's ingenious
they're incredible as far as their concept goes. thank you! this opens a whole different path from now on, how to use reason.
except some weird behaviour here and there - like when I combine my wedge matcha (tone generator) with neural dsp amp (effect) into combinator - it gives out different sound than being plugged together the same way without a combinator shell I don't get it, why it behaves differently, when the path and cabling is the same as before. (like it was loosing input gain)
was trying to make myself some useful combi setup for later use - but it seems I'll have to stuck with starting from a scratch method everytime again

That’s odd, the only way it would change is because the routing changes. Remember you don’t HAVE to use ANY combinator audio routing, so you can test things that way. Simply drag connected devices INSIDE of the combinator. Now you can assign controls as always BUT all audio routing happens outside of the combinator. That way you can test where the problem is coming from.

If you post a picture of both routings chances are someone here can figure out what’s going on.

[vrbi]

so I took my sweet time to delve into combinators and yes - it's ingenious
they're incredible as far as their concept goes. thank you! this opens a whole different path from now on, how to use reason.
except some weird behaviour here and there - like when I combine my wedge matcha (tone generator) with neural dsp amp (effect) into combinator - it gives out different sound than being plugged together the same way without a combinator shell I don't get it, why it behaves differently, when the path and cabling is the same as before. (like it was loosing input gain)
was trying to make myself some useful combi setup for later use - but it seems I'll have to stuck with starting from a scratch method everytime again

That’s odd, the only way it would change is because the routing changes. Remember you don’t HAVE to use ANY combinator audio routing, so you can test things that way. Simply drag connected devices INSIDE of the combinator. Now you can assign controls as always BUT all audio routing happens outside of the combinator. That way you can test where the problem is coming from.

If you post a picture of both routings chances are someone here can figure out what’s going on.

might be something with complxity of controls inside the actual VSTs, I'll dig into it slowly to find the mole.
meanwhile I stumbled another issue - can't ,for the god's sake, rename the individual controls in the interface so everything is just swith1, switch2, control 1, control2...
can change the style of button, switch, wheel, it's colour, placement - but not the name. that's weird

[Bes]