What makes Reason a great “Idea Starter”?

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selig
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23 May 2023

What makes Reason a great “Idea Starter”?
And what is the difference between a full blown DAW and a creative “idea starter”?

For me it’s a great idea starter partly because of the ‘fun factor’ for sure, but I can’t really clarify it much further than that. When it comes right down to it the proof is in the pudding as they say. Meaning, the results I get with Reason speak for themselves. I’ve not had that response from other DAWs in the past, though I’ve hardly had the time to try them all. Yet I struggle to put my finger on exactly what is the cause of Reason’s creative inspiration effect on me, or why other DAWs have NOT had that effect on my work.

So I’m wondering what others think, and why/how it is a great idea starter for so many folks. And what does this mean for how Reason should progress from here to focus on maintaining (or increasing) that ability to be a creative spark – thoughts?
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Billy+
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23 May 2023

it's simplicity and ease of use was always key for me.

i do wish that vst midi support had been added way back when vst's got added though.

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Loque
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23 May 2023

I like the look. It invites me to through something in, connect it with this and connect it with that and mostly i have a nice sound/rhythm/thing going on, which invites me to throw something more in. Quickly i have a nice loop going on.

If it sounds sh!t, i sample it and mangle it further. Mimic, Grain, chords, fx, whatever i have and i like it and i have fun.

If it sounds sh!t, i put it in Rex or Mimic, make a pluck sound of it, put in some delay and reverb and it sounds great.

If it still sounds sh!t, process more or throw away and start again.


And then, after i have the great sounding loop, my bad song writer skills or lack of time or ideas kick in and the song is not finished (yet) :-D Currently i have ragga style thing waiting to be finished, which i wanted to do since years...sigh...


What i hate the most is searching for functions in the pop up menu or the sequencer, which starts editing at random positions (probably the play cursor, which is never, i mean, never my intention to start editing/viewing since 20 years...). No viewing audio tracks and MIDI tracks at the same time is so missing...i suck in playing good keyboard, so i need to edit my MIDI according the drum loop audio track...
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Jackjackdaw
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23 May 2023

I think it’s the delineation of the instruments and the sequencer. You start off in the rack looking at / playing your instruments and end up in the sequencer to arrange.

In Cubase / Logic / Reaper you start off looking at a blank timeline and your instruments are accessed via buttons on the mixer. Not a big deal if your instrument is physical and all you want is a multitrack recorder but if your instruments are virtual it is not as inspiring from the beginning.

Often when I start off in Cubase I am more inspired to tinker with my send fx and midi routings and save templates than I am to start playing any music.

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visheshl
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23 May 2023

Ok so reason standalone is amazing...its great for quickly laying down your ideas.
But it lacks mainly in controller integration.
You need to manually map your controller to all the devices, and then new devices keep coming out.
I'd propose macros for every device, the controller is mapped to control macros of the selected device.
The macros can be hidden from view to keep the rack uncluttered. But they show up in context menus, you right click a parameter and click map to macro1(of this device)
And when you select this device, moving knob 1 on your controller moves the parameters you've mapped to this device's macro1.

This would enable using reason with physical controls without all the effort put into mapping.



That way any controller can be used to control the most required parameters of all the devices. Without mapping all the controls of a particular device in the text files...

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MrFigg
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23 May 2023

Plug in guitar. Create audio track. Add some pedals (which look like pedals). Press record and away you go.
🗲 2ॐ ᛉ

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Timmy Crowne
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23 May 2023

I think a full DAW is built to handle large-scale projects by large teams. Besides tools for music-making, it maximizes workflow optimization with things like batch processing, markers, grouping and hiding, hardware integration, video support, etc. The value proposition is that the DAW is going to help Joey record his guitar, and it is also going to help Alan mix Han’s 80-piece orchestra for Christopher’s next film, after the studio assistant prepped the session by naming and color-coding all the tracks and routing everything through an endless hardware console.

An idea starter might be all Joey needs, though. So Reason’s ability to record some riffs and bring up a drum pattern and a kalimba gets Joey having fun quickly. Joey’s not on the hook for studio time and doesn’t have a producer breathing down his neck to have deliverables ready by 5pm. In fact, it might be Reason’s lack of DAW features that creates the right psychological space for creation: when you open Reason, it’s clear that this isn’t a serious workspace. It’s colorful and silly and absurd and perfect.

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visheshl
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23 May 2023

Well yeah, in that sense reason is perfect for a bedroom producer like me...i fully agree... because im not producing for video, im not collaborating on a big scale project...etc... however what if i need to?
Thats the goal isn't it ?
To go big...
Thats exactly why i moved to rrp...and my favourite daw...

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guitfnky
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23 May 2023

nothing.

it does literally nothing to start an idea for anyone. the only thing it does differently than any other DAW with decent instruments is in the UI. it can be a slightly lower barrier to entry because it stays slightly more out of the way, because of the UI. that’s it.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

Andy
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23 May 2023

What makes Reason a great “Idea Starter”?

Ease of use.

And what is the difference between a full blown DAW and a creative “idea starter”?

A full blown DAW gets you "further". But they can also be idea starters. Marketing as great idea start is very strange to me. Any other DAW manufacturer can make that claim.
"DAW X is a great idea starter and much, much more. Get your songs from start to finish without the need to use another platform".

The idea starter push seems very limiting but hey I don't do marketing nor do I know anything about their business. Something must be working for them.

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BRIGGS
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23 May 2023

Because the sequencer is 'bare bones'.

...so people don't get distracted by silly things like track folders, groups, audio automation curves, etc. :crazy: :lol:
Last edited by BRIGGS on 23 May 2023, edited 2 times in total.
r11s

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guitfnky
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23 May 2023

Andy wrote:
23 May 2023
What makes Reason a great “Idea Starter”?

Ease of use.

And what is the difference between a full blown DAW and a creative “idea starter”?

A full blown DAW gets you "further". But they can also be idea starters. Marketing as great idea start is very strange to me. Any other DAW manufacturer can make that claim.
"DAW X is a great idea starter and much, much more. Get your songs from start to finish without the need to use another platform".

The idea starter push seems very limiting but hey I don't do marketing nor do I know anything about their business. Something must be working for them.
👆🏼👆🏼this

the ideas come from the person. the only benefit Reason or any other DAW has is that it will tend to lead you down a particular path that that DAW is best suited for.

when I use Reason, I’m more likely to use virtual instruments and generate MIDI with Players. when I use Ableton, I tend to experiment more with song structures on the fly, and feel equally at home working with virtual and real instruments. when I use Reaper, I find myself sticking mainly to real instruments.

whichever I choose to work in there’s never, ever a lack of ideas.

at the end of the day, workflow is king, and Reason’s workflow may work better for certain genres—for those who care about such things—but the thought that it’s better than anything else at helping with “ideas” is just marketing.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

avasopht
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23 May 2023

Some things in Reason make creating new effects chains a lot more fun.

It feels like you have more control and options.

You can do many things in Studio One's chains (I can't remember what they call it), but Reason was built on the rack from the start with more devices and utilities to support it alongside an ecosystem of Rack Extensions.

When Combinators first came about, it was easy to just plonk one after a device to use a premade effects chain. I definitely overdid it in the early days, but it's a powerful tool!

mtbh
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23 May 2023

selig wrote:
23 May 2023
What makes Reason a great “Idea Starter”?
And what is the difference between a full blown DAW and a creative “idea starter”?

For me it’s a great idea starter partly because of the ‘fun factor’ for sure, but I can’t really clarify it much further than that. When it comes right down to it the proof is in the pudding as they say. Meaning, the results I get with Reason speak for themselves. I’ve not had that response from other DAWs in the past, though I’ve hardly had the time to try them all. Yet I struggle to put my finger on exactly what is the cause of Reason’s creative inspiration effect on me, or why other DAWs have NOT had that effect on my work.

So I’m wondering what others think, and why/how it is a great idea starter for so many folks. And what does this mean for how Reason should progress from here to focus on maintaining (or increasing) that ability to be a creative spark – thoughts?
From a newsletter I received today:

The Concept of Having Fun
"It's interesting to me how the concept of having fun is, in various degrees, looked down upon, in our present world. It's equated with things like loafing, wasting time, not being serious enough, being frivolous and so forth. On the other hand, hardworking and 'serious minded' people themselves look to music created in the spirit of play to soothe the soul and lighten the spirit.

"Because, as spirits, we live and communicate in and through the physical world, hard work is needed to order our physical environment enough so that it aids us as a launching pad to have the freedom to create in the spirit of play. Given this emphasis, 'hard work' can become quite enjoyable and fun.

"Music, to me, is at its best when created with no other motivation than the spirit of play and fun."

- Chick Corea, excerpt from Music Poetry



I think Reason is a great DAW to facilitate the spirit of play. This is its strength.

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huggermugger
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23 May 2023

The Players. Plenty of different ways to generate ideas from scratch, to manipulate ideas, and to make instantly useful music.

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mcatalao
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23 May 2023

For me is that most of the things you need right away are not hidden, so hooking everything up is really direct. At least compared to cubase and reaper, i have a sense of being lost in the software whereas in reason I just feel home.

Wanna add a new instrument track? Just open the browser and drag and drop. Or push ctrl+t or ctrl+i. Want to get into an edit mode no matter the type of track? Double click it.

Everything is super direct (appart maybe for the sometimes forgotten tool window).

The same happens in the mixer despite all it's limitations. I like having the dynamics and eq sections and in my case they even are well integrated with my surfaces.

Blocks are also a part of my song development process, and again, activating ans using blocks is super direct whereas ln other daws similar features are overcomplicated.

freshkidblaze
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23 May 2023

I'm mainly in bitwig, and fl studio with the rack, but I hop in Reason when I feel like using it. I think the layout plays a big part. I feel like I can access my drums and assign them to slots in umpf faster than I can in fl or bitwig (and ableton). Also the fun factor, it makes me want to explore and think outside the box. Automation clip spark ideas too, its things you can do with them that are a pita to do in other daws.

MuttReason
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23 May 2023

It’s fast. I can hear an idea in my had, drag a device from the browser into the rack that I know will get me the kind of sounds I want (or drag a preset from one of my Favourite groups), and just get going from there.

I don’t get the same vibe with Ableton Live stock devices or scrolling through lists of VST plugins for some reason.

Also a big part of it is I grew up in the hardware era (as in, from my early teens through to my 40s, hardware gear was all there was) so the whole cables, routing, flip the rack thing is just wired into my musical brain. I can see how a particular sound can take shape through the whole Reason rack concept in a way that is just more immediately intuitive than anything else around.

This applies both to Reason DAW and RRP in Live, for me… when I use Live I’m essentially using multiple instances of RRP exclusively with no other plugins involved so in effect it’s like using all of Reason with Live as the DAW wrapper.

FWIW from a DAW usability perspective I find Live slightly faster to get around than Reason (and I love Live’s Session View for sketching out ideas) but Reason DAW comes a close second in the speed and simplicity stakes. That’s important, because it’s those little ‘WTF? how do I do XX?’ moments when using a DAW that can kill off an idea as it’s just beginning to take shape.

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Jagwah
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24 May 2023

selig wrote:
23 May 2023
What makes Reason a great “Idea Starter”?
And what is the difference between a full blown DAW and a creative “idea starter”?

For me it’s a great idea starter partly because of the ‘fun factor’ for sure, but I can’t really clarify it much further than that. When it comes right down to it the proof is in the pudding as they say. Meaning, the results I get with Reason speak for themselves. I’ve not had that response from other DAWs in the past, though I’ve hardly had the time to try them all. Yet I struggle to put my finger on exactly what is the cause of Reason’s creative inspiration effect on me, or why other DAWs have NOT had that effect on my work.

So I’m wondering what others think, and why/how it is a great idea starter for so many folks. And what does this mean for how Reason should progress from here to focus on maintaining (or increasing) that ability to be a creative spark – thoughts?
Great thread and well timed Selig.

It's funny how we are trying to explain our tool to suit the way Mattias explained it.

To me Reason is not an idea starter it is the complete package and likely always will be for me aside from video editing which I can do elsewhere. It also appears to be the complete package for quite a few other people I know.

That said I think a lot of Reason's appeal and 'idea starter' appeal is due the the UI and the great flow between Rack, Sequencer and Mixer. The way the Rack UI emulates a real world environment makes me feel at home way more than anything else ever could. The drag and drop nature of the Rack devices along with the well planned out work flow of the entire program along with its stability allows us to focus and progress quickly without worrying about anything else. :thumbs_up:

Tiny Montgomery
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24 May 2023

guitfnky wrote:
23 May 2023
nothing.

it does literally nothing to start an idea for anyone. the only thing it does differently than any other DAW with decent instruments is in the UI. it can be a slightly lower barrier to entry because it stays slightly more out of the way, because of the UI. that’s it.
For you, not "anyone".

My Ableton sessions are full of RRPs with players at the start until I start printing that midi into clips. I used Ableton in rosetta mode for 5 months on a new MBP just so I could do this (glad that's over though). Once the midi is in Ableton clips velocity and/or note probability can be used. Its such a powerful and quick way to get usable ideas going.

While we're on the topic of players in the RRP, you know when you take a cable from the Chord Generator for the root note and plug it into BLG for bassline variation? Just discovered the other day that you can connect that to the midi out device so you don't have to have the bass playing instrument in the same rack. This saves me a step as I often have a chords and bassline in same rack as a starter idea then have to break that out into separate tracks later.

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TritoneAddiction
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24 May 2023

I've always felt a bit off whenever people say things like "Reason feels like a toy" and "It's not a serious program". I know what they mean when they say that, that it's not capable enough and bla bla bla. But to me saying something is like a toy should imply that it's about having fun, which is how I experience Reason. It's program full of fun little toys. Visually Reason sparks creativity in me. For me the last thing a program should feel like is "serious". I can't believe some people actually use that word as something positive in a creative field. Looking at some other DAWs, for example Pro Tools, I get the feeling that making music is about "work", like it's a chore.

Popey
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24 May 2023

Taking an "idea starter" literally, for me any device can be an idea starter as this is often how it pans out in reality.

It could be a new synth (hands up if you have already started a song with objekt), a new fx, an updated product with new functionality or even a old plugin you return to from not using for a while.

Reason probably does well here as it comes with a lot of different synths, fx and players. I must admit though for me an idea starter can be found in most daws but perhaps rs has an advantage with the amount available.

As for difference between idea starter and full daw I would say if you can create and export a track it is full blown daw. Yes some daws have stuff others do not but this is the same for them all.

If rs think of it as a idea starter that is cool but does not stop others thinking of it how they wish. Eg. do we just think of bassline generator for bass or have others used it for lead ideas etc like I have. It is what you feel it is.

robussc
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24 May 2023

I’m also in the “it’s so intuitive it’s fun” camp, I used to be a Cubase user back in the day and the concept of VSTs sounded incredible, but their invisibility really hindered its usability. The switch to Reason was an “aha” moment and suddenly the power of real “virtual studio technology” was here.
Software: Reason 12 + Objekt, Vintage Vault 4, V-Collection 9 + Pigments, Vintage Verb + Supermassive
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Ottostrom
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24 May 2023

Jackjackdaw wrote:
23 May 2023
I think it’s the delineation of the instruments and the sequencer. You start off in the rack looking at / playing your instruments and end up in the sequencer to arrange.

In Cubase / Logic / Reaper you start off looking at a blank timeline and your instruments are accessed via buttons on the mixer. Not a big deal if your instrument is physical and all you want is a multitrack recorder but if your instruments are virtual it is not as inspiring from the beginning.

Often when I start off in Cubase I am more inspired to tinker with my send fx and midi routings and save templates than I am to start playing any music.
This is a great take on it!
I feel no urgency when I'm in the rack since it feels more like a room full of fun devices that I can chain up however I like and play.
But if I'm in the sequencer I feel like I at least have to start building a loop or something to progress.

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Chizmata
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24 May 2023

considering that theoretically any DAW can do anything nowadays - reason is great because almost everything works and it never crashes.

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