SuperBooth 2023 Confession - Reason is for starting an idea

[Billy+]

Did Mattias really just say that Reason is an idea starter and not geared toward complete production?

[Goriila Texas]

The writing has been on the wall for years RS is going back to focusing on being an instrument in a DAW instead of improving as a DAW. They end game is to create so many unique instruments that competes with Native Instruments Komplete price point $599. RRP is the future.

[joeyluck]

Yeah and it's the most important part of music making.

Also, looks like some people appreciate the response:

Reason quote.png (19.41 KiB) Viewed 10011 times

Reason, Live, Bitwig, and similar DAWs have always been more focused on music making over mixing/mastering. These devs know well enough that if they want to broaden their focus to compete with the likes of Logic and Pro Tools, many users will overlook the core strengths. Doesn't mean they lack the capabilities either.

That said, I still argue that video support is essential because composing to video is what many people getting into music making want to do. You don't have to be composing for a blockbuster film to be composing for video.

And the ability to mix for Atmos is also something that I think will become essential of any DAW, because more and more people are wanting to listen to Atmos mixes.

But there's a really great solution now for mixing Atmos in Reason thanks to Fiedler Audio!
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=7531387

[Heater]

I’m okay with that.

[Timmy Crowne]

Makes sense. I just finished Seth Godin’s book on marketing. One of the key takeaways was that trying to please everyone leads to pleasing no one. It seems like the brand has been working on positioning itself away from the do-anything-tweaker’s-paradise and more toward the fun, inspirational space for the user on the move. I like hearing this kind of unambiguous statement. Helps to calibrate my expectations going forward.

[Floyd42]

For this reason, I chose "Reason" at that time.
The look, the feel, it just felt right.
No other DAW has inspired me like that.
Thank you Reason Studios!

[Quarmat]

I am not an experienced enough producer to be able to say that Reason as a standalone DAW lacks, structurally speaking, the ability to mix and master a track in a professional manner compared to what appear to be industry standards such as ProTools. But I am convinced that with a good technical background (and - at most - some RE or VST not included in Reason's stock) one can produce a track absolutely on par with current standards.

I agree with Mattias and others on here that unlike any other DAW I've tried (I think about fifteen at least) Reason triggers inspiration and starts a track like no other. And if there's no song there's nothing to mix or master.

For me this is worth buying Reason: it's the quickest and most efficient system between having an idea in your head and hearing it in your monitors. Since I am a composer and not a sound engineer this is why I choose Reason without hesitation. But I don't think Reason is just an inspirational toy. It can certainly improve, but if I were able to reach Reason's (theoretical) limit from a purely technical point of view, I would consider myself a first-class sound engineer.

[WOO]

I think mattias may have just laid out their long term plans for reason the daw. I'm ok with that direction and philosophy regarding reason, but I think they may have alienated some customers who have been hoping for much needed improvements to the daw itself.

[PhillipOrdonez]

I think he's talking about mastering tools, and how the company isn't focused on creating specifically such tools, and that's fine, Reason didn't need to be absolutely everything. You can master within the program, but they don't really focus on creating the best tools for mastering. And unlike the insinuation by the first two posts on this thread, that's not a bad thing and definitely does not mean reason is just an idea starter. It isn't. It works great for that if that's what you want, but it is also where you can finish your stuff. Has all the tools to get you to the end, and you can use your own third party tools to get the last step done, within reason or anywhere else.

[Jagwah]

I get that Reason is not geared towards video editing / scoring but to say it's an idea starter is really unnecessary when we have VST 3 support now - which would mean you can have any mixing / mastering tools right here in Reason. Props themselves don't make mastering tools so to speak, but Reason is wide open for them and they function just as they would in another DAW.

If everybody here considered Reason an 'idea starter' we would all have a second software to create / finish our music in and from what I gather there is only a few people here who do that.

If you were DAW shopping would you pick the one that has the salesperson telling you it does the first half of the job? Maybe I am misunderstanding the whole idea but at face value it doesn't seem that great to me.

[Billy+]

I think he's talking about mastering tools, and how the company isn't focused on creating specifically such tools, and that's fine, Reason didn't need to be absolutely everything. You can master within the program, but they don't really focus on creating the best tools for mastering. And unlike the insinuation by the first two posts on this thread, that's not a bad thing and definitely does not mean reason is just an idea starter. It isn't. It works great for that if that's what you want, but it is also where you can finish your stuff. Has all the tools to get you to the end, and you can use your own third party tools to get the last step done, within reason or anywhere else.

i wasn't insinuating anything, i was just surprised that the product manager said during a major trade show that Reason was more of an idea starter than i functional DAW moving in the right direction.

i'm happy that they aren't hung up trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak.

leave mixing and mastering tools to izotope. (and make sure your product actually works well with them )

however i would defiantly like to see more than just new instruments being introduced for the foreseeable future.

Reason is so much more than an idea starter and with a few extras some of those idea's could more forward with much more ease
(i'm thinking adding midi device support for example)

[Billy+]

That said, I still argue that video support is essential because composing to video is what many people getting into music making want to do. You don't have to be composing for a blockbuster film to be composing for video.

And the ability to mix for Atmos is also something that I think will become essential of any DAW, because more and more people are wanting to listen to Atmos mixes.

didn't RRP solve both these problems ?

i.e. you can use the devices in something more dedicated..

[joeyluck]

That said, I still argue that video support is essential because composing to video is what many people getting into music making want to do. You don't have to be composing for a blockbuster film to be composing for video.

And the ability to mix for Atmos is also something that I think will become essential of any DAW, because more and more people are wanting to listen to Atmos mixes.

didn't RRP solve both these problems ?

i.e. you can use the devices in something more dedicated..

As I mentioned, the latter is solved with Dolby Atmos Composer

For video, there is VidPlayVST, which I use, but unfortunately it doesn't work fully in Reason. Reason Studios needs to fix something involving its handling of VstTimeInfo.

I prefer to do as much as I can in Reason. I prefer Reason's environment and its pitch edit.

[Jagwah]

For video, there is VidPlayVST, which I use, but unfortunately it doesn't work fully in Reason. Reason Studios needs to fix something involving its handling of VstTimeInfo.

VidPlayVST really doesn't do much and I recommend it sometimes to people using Reason, what about it doesn't work properly?

[joeyluck]

For video, there is VidPlayVST, which I use, but unfortunately it doesn't work fully in Reason. Reason Studios needs to fix something involving its handling of VstTimeInfo.

VidPlayVST really doesn't do much and I recommend it sometimes to people using Reason, what about it doesn't work properly?

There's a couple issues at least. Scrubbing doesn't work properly. In other DAWs, as you drag the playhead along the timeline, the video updates in realtime as you scrub. In Reason, the video only updates after you release the playhead. It makes it very difficult to find that exact spot in the video you are looking for, such as finding that precise moment where to insert a sound, etc. Also, timing is off quite often, which I'm guessing could be attributed to the same issue. I frequently have to hit stop multiple times and start from the beginning to get things to sync properly (not very efficient, especially for longer videos). Many times I have to quit and restart Reason to get timing back. It's definitely not reassuring that the export will be timed properly.

I checked with the dev and they said that the scrubbing issue is attributed to Reason's handling of VstTimeInfo and that other DAWs handle this properly. I reported it to Reason Studios a while back. Fingers crossed they can fix it. It would be nice given that Reason doesn't have native video support, that the external video solutions worked properly at least.

[Jagwah]

VidPlayVST really doesn't do much and I recommend it sometimes to people using Reason, what about it doesn't work properly?

There's a couple issues at least. Scrubbing doesn't work properly. In other DAWs, as you drag the playhead along the timeline, the video updates in realtime as you scrub. In Reason, the video only updates after you release the playhead. It makes it very difficult to find that exact spot in the video you are looking for, such as finding that precise moment where to insert a sound, etc. Also, timing is off quite often, which I'm guessing could be attributed to the same issue. I frequently have to hit stop multiple times and start from the beginning to get things to sync properly (not very efficient, especially for longer videos). Many times I have to quit and restart Reason to get timing back. It's definitely not reassuring that the export will be timed properly.

I checked with the dev and they said that the scrubbing issue is attributed to Reason's handling of VstTimeInfo and that other DAWs handle this properly. I reported it to Reason Studios a while back. Fingers crossed they can fix it. It would be nice given that Reason doesn't have native video support, that the external video solutions worked properly at least.

OK good to know about it at least, cheers

[QVprod]

Nothing new.. That’s what reason has always been. He isn’t saying that you can’t make a full production with it, just that it’s not meant to compete with the more technical workflows the stuff like Pro Tools or Studio One excels at.

But like someone mentioned earlier, that’s basically most DAWs. They’re effective music makers but when you want to record multitrack audio, mix, and master, there are better tools for that. Those that care about building that audio engineering skill set likely will already have that second DAW for that (or aspire to) but there’s enough to get the job done in Reason if you have to.

I wouldn’t mind be able to sync video as well. Forced to not use Reason for those projects even though creatively I’d prefer to.

[visheshl]

The way i see it, RRP solves a lot of problems.
I always saw reason as a rack of devices first and foremost. It also had a sequencer was the icing on the cake.
Thats why there was a need for rewire all those years ago.
And now we have RRP.
Use your favourite DAW suitable to your workflow and requirements along with a rack full of instruments, fx, players etc...

[madmacman]

When I visited them at Superbooth back in 2019 (?) they showcased Reason 10 at that time. And when I asked Mattias if they are aware of the DAW competition and the lack of sequencer features, he admitted the race was "lost" (not exactly his words, but that was the message). At that day I confirmed my decision to move on. With Reason 11 and the Rack Plugin they focussed on their strengths. And let them speak for themselves. If you visit reasonstudios.com, you can instantly read their claim:

Reason is an always-expanding rack of creative Instruments, Effects and Players

[Jagwah]

When I visited them at Superbooth back in 2019 (?) they showcased Reason 10 at that time. And when I asked Mattias if they are aware of the DAW competition and the lack of sequencer features, he admitted the race was "lost" (not exactly his words, but that was the message). At that day I confirmed my decision to move on. With Reason 11 and the Rack Plugin they focussed on their strengths. And let them speak for themselves. If you visit reasonstudios.com, you can instantly read their claim:

Reason is an always-expanding rack of creative Instruments, Effects and Players

It has just never seemed to be such a great insurmountable task to get Reason at a competitive level. Things do seem to take a long time with RS, but is there really that much besides sequencer upgrades holding them back from being a legitimate competitor in this race?

[Aosta]

I always used Reason for it's creative aspect and never saw it as a 'all in one' production suite, there are things like ozone, waves and a multitude of pro software for that. I've also never really had an issue with the sequencer, it works fine for me arranging a song and does everything I want it to do.

[Ahornberg]

I would like to see this guy making a video about Reason Studio.
I want to know if it's snake-oil or not

[MattiasHG]

Did Mattias really just say that Reason is an idea starter and not geared toward complete production?

I really did!

Though you might be reading too much into it and extrapolating my response... We put most of our effort into being about music making. That's been the case since 2001 and it's still our primary focus. We try to make sure that Reason is the software where you can very quickly get music going that lead to songs, and I think that shines through quite clearly in our products and design. I'm not suggesting Reason can't make awesome complete tracks nor am I saying we don't want to make a "functional DAW", in fact I don't say that anywhere in the video either.

The question was "who isn't the software for" and it would feel odd recommending Reason to engineers who works primarily with mixing, mastering, and post-production for other artists or similar. The people working with making a song that exists sound perfect (quoting myself here). They'd have no use for our instruments, Players or creative effects, all of which are a huge part of what Reason is. I'm honestly a bit surprised this could be considered controversial.

[DaveyG]

I'm honestly a bit surprised this could be considered controversial.

It isn't controversial. It's just Billy stirring things again. Best to ignore him really.

[MrFigg]

I'm honestly a bit surprised this could be considered controversial.

It isn't controversial. It's just Billy stirring things again. Best to ignore him really.