Why is Reason Lacking in so many popular DAW lists for 3rd party products

[bxbrkrz]

[DaveyG]

Maybe this thread has run its course.

[reasonosaer]

Why people are so emotional? Maybe this period of time at all is high emotional for musicians and artists in chances of working together, find places and spaces for their projects after this ..... crisis.

Art is a emotianl thing, emotions are highly regarded by attractors of to be and not to be. So if there is no space to be, people become frustrated and turning around their thoughts in a bad way. For example i saw these days a girl with a stage piano some speakers and a macbook, sitting on the floor at a railway underpass to show her skills, cause most music pubs gets closed after this ...... pandemic sh.. I would say these phenomenom could be seen everywhere, where artist are looking for uncoventional stages to show her stuff.....
In this new era of living together, it´s a sometimes a thing of shame and hate what comes together and makes people worse, or iss it nice that´s forbidden that meetings where limited to maximum 3-5 persons outside, otherwise it´s a crime !!! ?

So people are now more and more online active, having jams online, because music pubs, places are no longer open or rare as hell. So at this point of discussion it would be better to talk about open spaces and space for art moments in the world, than have a conversation why is ... marketing so so sad. For this WE the users have to produce trailers as a benchmark for the small marketing reasonstudio group, where they could learn something from, only meh meh meh changes nothing!



[[And yes I´m one of this 90´s people who are not interested in function monster sequencers, but some extras added to the last big sequencer update are welcome or overdue, like multiple track and drumnote editing, auto bounce in out with predefined thresholds......track markers!]]

I think the same, we dont need a sequencer monster, just the basics that are really useful espeacially for the project organiosation!

you don't have the basics that's the point, not even the most minimal take on the basics as of 2010-2012 when professional work in home/project studios really took off. the peope who keep insisting otherwise are just revealing the limitations of their own knowledge and experience.

what's there works for the most part but you simply cannot arrange and edit large complex projects in the Reason sequencer efficiently enough for it to be viable in *any* professional context if you aren't a jerk with the same type of contempt for your clients that Propellerheads/RS have consistently displayed towards their customers for years. if you are struggling with this fact you probably just lack the breadth of experience with modern software to know what you're missing or have never had to track/arrange/mix in a setting where you are being paid and time constraints are a real thing. no worries, get out there and try some other software or don't, i can promise you that no one but you cares what you use as long as you can deliver results at a competitive rate. or don't, if you are an artist with no real world financial or time constraints on your work and Reason is perfect for you as-is that's great! i'm simply informing you of the fairly objective reality that the Reason/Record sequencer had crippling limitations when it came out and now it still has all of the same crippling limitations (except for crossfades i guess, which were a 15 year project) plus it's now 20 years behind the competition.

in colloquial language the "toy" perjorative is pretty fair. because Reason is not suitable for use in professional contexts its potential customer base is drastically reduced and RS is forced to pay through the nose to be acknowledged by obscure producers no one has ever heard of that are trying to build a yt channel instead of getting lots of free advertising from the biggest names in the industry that actually influence the kids just dipping their toes into music production. if it helps this sour truth go down any easier for you remember that usually a company delivering on a bunch of 10-20 year old feature requests and bringing the achilles heel of its main product into the 21st century would be something universally welcomed by its user base, most user forums don't have big contingents that actively advocate against further development of the product because they have some weird emotional entanglement with the product and/or the company that makes it. since this forum was created by a user and is not affiliated with the company or moderated by RS employees (it only became the primary Reason forum after Propellerheads nuked their own forum) you get a lot of weird stuff like the "no please don't improve the product because the idea that it has crippling limitations i'm not aware of for people with more experience than i have makes me feel insecure" behavior on display in this thread. they also lock lots of threads where people are being critical of Reason with vague statements that don't really offer any justification for censoring further discussion beyond the impression that they don't like the opinions on offer and/or feel personally embarassed by legitimate criticism of their very favorite software. predicting that outcome for this thread any time now...

[bxbrkrz]

Maybe this thread has run its course.

[QVprod]

since this forum was created by a user and is not affiliated with the company or moderated by RS employees (it only became the primary Reason forum after Propellerheads nuked their own forum) you get a lot of weird stuff like the "no please don't improve the product because the idea that it has crippling limitations i'm not aware of for people with more experience than i have makes me feel insecure" behavior on display in this thread. they also lock lots of threads where people are being critical of Reason with vague statements that don't really offer any justification for censoring further discussion beyond the impression that they don't like the opinions on offer and/or feel personally embarassed by legitimate criticism of their very favorite software. predicting that outcome for this thread any time now...

How in the world did mods get dragged into this?
*** Moderator hat on ***

Since we're here, a few corrections: for one, most of us are critical of Reason ourselves. I was even critical in this thread...
Also slight correction: This forum was created after RS (Propellehead at the time) announced they would shut down their forum. Most of the same critical users from the PUF came here as the defacto replacement. Not that any of this is really relevant to the conversation.

Thirdly, can we stop with the silly "censorship" accusations? Even when we do lock threads (usually when conversations start getting out of hand) , we don't delete them. All critiques are still readable. Censorship would be us deleting every negative comment. We just ask that things are kept civil and we avoid attacks and considerably off topic posts...

***Okay now moderator hat back off***

Back on topic, you seem to conflate Professional audio recording with Professional music production. That's the disconnect here. Completely different things. I do both and I would agree with you (as mentioned earlier) that Reason is not designed to be a competitor to Pro Tools for audio recording, mixing. editing...etc... That said, very few people are crazy enough to produce music (with midi) in Pro Tools. it's not well built for it. As far as speed of creating, I honestly work just as fast in Reason as I do in Studio One if not faster for most things, but all I need the sequencer to do is record midi and do minimal midi editing. YMMV. I work on production with clients in the room with me as well.

[mimidancer]

I guess as one of the happy customers I am in the minority here. But why the constant complaining? If reason does not meet your needs and another product does then going with them makes sense. It is the coming back here to complain that I don't understand. The product that most here prefer I absolutely hate (rhymes with hive). STILL, I have never been in their forum to say saving in your workstation is a pain in the ass. I never once posed in the hive forum that their multiple MIDI clocks out is nice but why can't you keep them locked up. Every track is multiple seconds different and you're killing my groove. OR Your UI is so boring I'd rather attend an HR meeting than make create music in your cold ugly program. Maybe I should go post there.

Comparing Reason updates and development to the program that rhymes with hive is insane. They have over 350 busy bees(employees) in the hive, Reason Studios has like 50. In the end, you should make music where you feel inspired. Reason is that place for me. Reason is what it always has been. It is a flexible, modular, hardware emulation. When I think about all of the great albums that have been made with so much less, I smile. People that have a vision will find a way. they would cut tape and piece it together. I doubt folding up their mixer for a cleaner look crossed their minds. Reason is Reason. if you don't like it why are you posting here? You already have the perfect software.

[moalla]

I think the same, we dont need a sequencer monster, just the basics that are really useful espeacially for the project organiosation!

you don't have the basics that's the point, not even the most minimal take on the basics as of 2010-2012 when professional work in home/project studios really took off. the peope who keep insisting otherwise are just revealing the limitations of their own knowledge and experience.

what's there works for the most part but you simply cannot arrange and edit large complex projects in the Reason sequencer efficiently enough for it to be viable in *any* professional context if you aren't a jerk with the same type of contempt for your clients that Propellerheads/RS have consistently displayed towards their customers for years. if you are struggling with this fact you probably just lack the breadth of experience with modern software to know what you're missing or have never had to track/arrange/mix in a setting where you are being paid and time constraints are a real thing. no worries, get out there and try some other software or don't, i can promise you that no one but you cares what you use as long as you can deliver results at a competitive rate. or don't, if you are an artist with no real world financial or time constraints on your work and Reason is perfect for you as-is that's great! i'm simply informing you of the fairly objective reality that the Reason/Record sequencer had crippling limitations when it came out and now it still has all of the same crippling limitations (except for crossfades i guess, which were a 15 year project) plus it's now 20 years behind the competition.

in colloquial language the "toy" perjorative is pretty fair. because Reason is not suitable for use in professional contexts its potential customer base is drastically reduced and RS is forced to pay through the nose to be acknowledged by obscure producers no one has ever heard of that are trying to build a yt channel instead of getting lots of free advertising from the biggest names in the industry that actually influence the kids just dipping their toes into music production. if it helps this sour truth go down any easier for you remember that usually a company delivering on a bunch of 10-20 year old feature requests and bringing the achilles heel of its main product into the 21st century would be something universally welcomed by its user base, most user forums don't have big contingents that actively advocate against further development of the product because they have some weird emotional entanglement with the product and/or the company that makes it. since this forum was created by a user and is not affiliated with the company or moderated by RS employees (it only became the primary Reason forum after Propellerheads nuked their own forum) you get a lot of weird stuff like the "no please don't improve the product because the idea that it has crippling limitations i'm not aware of for people with more experience than i have makes me feel insecure" behavior on display in this thread. they also lock lots of threads where people are being critical of Reason with vague statements that don't really offer any justification for censoring further discussion beyond the impression that they don't like the opinions on offer and/or feel personally embarassed by legitimate criticism of their very favorite software. predicting that outcome for this thread any time now...

I don´t think Reason could be the perfect audio editing tool, but what´s not so nice is the fact that Reasons sequencer lacks in some terms of midi editing so much, compared with bitwig, what is no on V5 after some years crazy or reaper from a much smaller company okay, hmm at this point it would be a thing to give Reaper a try, but buy the next DAW... not really the big deal for me apart from that to work with two programms like in the past via rewire.If you look at what went wrong, for me and other users it´s the thing with the reason team, that they don´t take really take care about important improvements of user request the last years often, that´s the main point why reason lacks in some terms as hard as it is now. It´s a thing around 20 small sequencer improvements that must be done since years, but the team is sleeping in this terms like they never heard about these things and acting from the next half done job, to the next. These are not new facts, a lot here in the forum know that, allihopa or half done IOS shissl why what they had done with the IOS synth apps!?..... So maybe it would be the best that we as customers stress them the next weeks with a lot of emails till the superbooth, cause this request ticket system seems like silly joke for nothing or is this as well, a wrong interpreted thing of the customers?

I very much hope that they see the time and treat themselves accordingly.

I´m at least as german person not in the position to speak in a well way hardly but polite with reasonstudios, that´s a job for a other person, but the facts are lying down on the street and the thruth is written ten times now!

[Mistro17]

Just a reminder, this thread is about Reason showing up on 3rd party product lists/support and being mentioned in various platforms that mention almost every other DAW. Not about comparing Reason with other DAWs or lecturing if you can make good music with it or not. Let's all agree that you as an artist can create great music with Reason and for many of us, it's fun to work with. Some of you are hinting this thread should be closed but we still don't have an answer about how the networking with 3rd party companies work. Anyone from Reason Studios here can shed some light? Any hope for some newer keyboard hardware support within preferences for example? Either way this inquiry is just a curiosity and hopefully some feedback from a Reason User for RS to consider.

[QVprod]

Just a reminder, this thread is about Reason showing up on 3rd party product lists/support and being mentioned in various platforms that mention almost every other DAW. Not about comparing Reason with other DAWs or lecturing if you can make good music with it or not. Let's all agree that you as an artist can create great music with Reason and for many of us, it's fun to work with. Some of you are hinting this thread should be closed but we still don't have an answer about how the networking with 3rd party companies work. Anyone from Reason Studios here can shed some light? Any hope for some newer keyboard hardware support within preferences for example? Either way this inquiry is just a curiosity and hopefully some feedback from a Reason User for RS to consider.

Granted it's speculative, but I think you pretty much have the answer. Plugins, likely mostly out of habit but also down to what it was tested with. Plugins like Scaler don't work with Reason. With controllers, very few are going beyond very basic Mackie control anyway and the ones that do go deeper are usually designed for a specific DAW.

That said, this might be interesting:

[bxbrkrz]

Just a reminder, this thread is about Reason showing up on 3rd party product lists/support and being mentioned in various platforms that mention almost every other DAW. Not about comparing Reason with other DAWs or lecturing if you can make good music with it or not. Let's all agree that you as an artist can create great music with Reason and for many of us, it's fun to work with. Some of you are hinting this thread should be closed but we still don't have an answer about how the networking with 3rd party companies work. Anyone from Reason Studios here can shed some light? Any hope for some newer keyboard hardware support within preferences for example? Either way this inquiry is just a curiosity and hopefully some feedback from a Reason User for RS to consider.

Granted it's speculative, but I think you pretty much have the answer. Plugins, likely mostly out of habit but also down to what it was tested with. Plugins like Scaler don't work with Reason. With controllers, very few are going beyond very basic Mackie control anyway and the ones that do go deeper are usually designed for a specific DAW.

That said, this might be interesting:

Within the 5 min and 45 sec did he say "Reason"? Maybe I missed it while he was going through the list of supported DAWs.

[supersmarter]

I know for a fact that you deleted certain threads where there was no breaking of forum rules but heaps of disappointment about subscriptions and so on. Plenty of such experiences were described at KVR and confirmed by other people as well. I am aware this is your personal forum and you can do whatever you want which is why I was never upset about censorship. But to say this is all imagined is not true.

There are probably people which earned to be deleted but there were situations where you either by accident (less plausible) or by intent deleted good critics. What his why you earned "censorship" status?

YMMV.

Today after decades I think Reason is a really really amazing tool. The Marketing department should fire off some people IMO but the app itself is amazing. I actually never wanted a change in the sequencer. I can make amazing music in it. Amazing for myself haha

[jam-s]

I know for a fact that you deleted certain threads where there was no breaking of forum rules but heaps of disappointment about subscriptions and so on. Plenty of such experiences were described at KVR and confirmed by other people as well. I am aware this is your personal forum and you can do whatever you want which is why I was never upset about censorship. But to say this is all imagined is not true.

The only threads I've seen deleted here were spam threads that just tried to promote a product. You might have mistaken some thread renaming or thread merges or moves for a deletion.

[iTrensharo]

Today after decades I think Reason is a really really amazing tool. The Marketing department should fire off some people IMO but the app itself is amazing. I actually never wanted a change in the sequencer. I can make amazing music in it. Amazing for myself haha

Sequencer changes are selfless asks for many people, because they want to grow the user base.

It may be fine for me, but that won't help the product thrive if everyone else is going to ignore it because the developers continuously neglect that aspect of the package.

You can't turn a blind eye to those areas, and then wonder why more people aren't using it, resulting in more developers not devoting the resources to test it and list it as a "Supported DAW" for their products. This is all interrelated.

[gbuck]

Granted it's speculative, but I think you pretty much have the answer. Plugins, likely mostly out of habit but also down to what it was tested with. Plugins like Scaler don't work with Reason. With controllers, very few are going beyond very basic Mackie control anyway and the ones that do go deeper are usually designed for a specific DAW.

That said, this might be interesting:

Within the 5 min and 45 sec did he say "Reason"? Maybe I missed it while he was going through the list of supported DAWs.

Scalar seems to work fine in Reason for me.

[bxbrkrz]

Within the 5 min and 45 sec did he say "Reason"? Maybe I missed it while he was going through the list of supported DAWs.

Scalar seems to work fine in Reason for me.

Nested replies are confusing indeed. I wasn't the one talking about Scaler, but hey it's good to know it is working in Reason

[gbuck]

Sorry, didn't grab the correct quote. lol

[avasopht]

You're all wrong

[Loque]

You're all wrong

So true. And I am the only one which is right. Damn Internet won't understand.

[QVprod]

Within the 5 min and 45 sec did he say "Reason"? Maybe I missed it while he was going through the list of supported DAWs.

Scalar seems to work fine in Reason for me.

Sorry, I was referring to using the midi out of scalar.

[iTrensharo]

Within the 5 min and 45 sec did he say "Reason"? Maybe I missed it while he was going through the list of supported DAWs.

Scalar seems to work fine in Reason for me.

You can't use Scaler 2 to drive other Instruments in Reason 12, so you're limited to dragging and dropping MIDI out of Scaler 2 and onto the instrument track.

In a DAW like Cubase (well... almost any other DAW), you can enable MIDI Out for Scaler 2 and set the MIDI Input for another instrument track to Scaler 2. Scaler 2 will then drive the other instrument in the same way Chord Sequencer drives a synth in Reason when added as a player for it.

In some DAWs (Logic Pro, Samplitude Pro X7) you can use Scaler 2 as a MIDI FX, so it functions practically the way a Reason Player works in Reason. You don't even have to do any manual routing. You add it as a MIDI FX and it "just works."

This also works for MIDI Processors developed in environments like Native Instruments REAKTOR 6, as well as products like Cthulu, Kirnu Cream, etc.

Aside from MIDI Drag-and-Drop, those products are of very low usefulness in Reason due to the lack of MIDI Routing... which is an ironic feature lack in the grand scheme of things.

So, it will "work fine" in Reason if your use of Scaler 2 is as an isolated virtual instrument ... or you are fine with being relegated to dragging and dropping MIDI from Scaler 2's pads onto Reason Instrument tracks.

That seems less fine if you have any experience using it elsewhere, though, where it basically functions like Chord Sequencer on Super Strong Steroids.

I don't think Reason Studios will patch this gap, as it would render multiple of their players irrelevant - particularly since they often cost more than the VST/AU alternatives.

[gbuck]

Scalar seems to work fine in Reason for me.

You can't use Scaler 2 to drive other Instruments in Reason 12, so you're limited to dragging and dropping MIDI out of Scaler 2 and onto the instrument track.

In a DAW like Cubase (well... almost any other DAW), you can enable MIDI Out for Scaler 2 and set the MIDI Input for another instrument track to Scaler 2. Scaler 2 will then drive the other instrument in the same way Chord Sequencer drives a synth in Reason when added as a player for it.

In some DAWs (Logic Pro, Samplitude Pro X7) you can use Scaler 2 as a MIDI FX, so it functions practically the way a Reason Player works in Reason. You don't even have to do any manual routing. You add it as a MIDI FX and it "just works."

This also works for MIDI Processors developed in environments like Native Instruments REAKTOR 6, as well as products like Cthulu, Kirnu Cream, etc.

Aside from MIDI Drag-and-Drop, those products are of very low usefulness in Reason due to the lack of MIDI Routing... which is an ironic feature lack in the grand scheme of things.

So, it will "work fine" in Reason if your use of Scaler 2 is as an isolated virtual instrument ... or you are fine with being relegated to dragging and dropping MIDI from Scaler 2's pads onto Reason Instrument tracks.

That seems less fine if you have any experience using it elsewhere, though, where it basically functions like Chord Sequencer on Super Strong Steroids.

I don't think Reason Studios will patch this gap, as it would render multiple of their players irrelevant - particularly since they often cost more than the VST/AU alternatives.

Thanks for the info.