Using another computer as an external MIDI instrument

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crimsonwarlock
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23 Mar 2023

I have a rather powerful laptop lying around that I don't use right now. I also have an M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R audio-interface with MIDI that's not in use. Together, those could be used as a standalone MIDI instrument. So, I'm thinking of setting this up as a dedicated machine for VCV-rack, to have that running separate from my main DAW computer and squeeze some more power out of my setup. Simply connect with a MIDI cable and have outputs from the Fast Track Ultra routed to inputs of my Scarlett 18i20.

It would be even better if I could load up another DAW on the laptop with Reason Rack plugins, so I could spread even more stuff over two computers. However, I guess you can't run the Reason DAW on one machine and RRP on another simultaneously with one license.

Any thoughts, experiences, tips, etc.?
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Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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dioxide
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23 Mar 2023

Although I've never tried the situation you describe, I've tried getting two laptops to sync together and it doesn't work well if you're using MIDI Clock. Ableton Link works very well though and I use it to sync two laptops running Reason when I play live.

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crimsonwarlock
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23 Mar 2023

dioxide wrote:
23 Mar 2023
Although I've never tried the situation you describe, I've tried getting two laptops to sync together and it doesn't work well if you're using MIDI Clock.
I don't have to sync the two machines, as I'm not going to run a sequencer on the laptop. The idea is to sequence a synthesizer on the laptop through MIDI, from the Reason sequencer on my main machine. Basically, using a MIDI-out device like you would with a hardware synthesizer. The laptop will receive MIDI information as if it is coming from an external MIDI keyboard.
dioxide wrote:
23 Mar 2023
Ableton Link works very well though and I use it to sync two laptops running Reason when I play live.
Are you running Reason (or RRP) on two machines simultaneously? And if so, with just one or with two licenses?
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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DaveyG
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23 Mar 2023

I think it's technically against the licence but I think you can authorise one machine for use offline and then login on a second machine.
TBH it's about time they got with the programme and allowed two or three authorisations per licence as long as they are all used by the same person.

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dioxide
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23 Mar 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
23 Mar 2023
I don't have to sync the two machines, as I'm not going to run a sequencer on the laptop. The idea is to sequence a synthesizer on the laptop through MIDI, from the Reason sequencer on my main machine. Basically, using a MIDI-out device like you would with a hardware synthesizer. The laptop will receive MIDI information as if it is coming from an external MIDI keyboard.
If you're just playing synths and sounds you'll be fine so long as you won't miss anything that is tempo synced. MIDI note data and CCs work fine, the problem is with Clock drifting.
crimsonwarlock wrote:
23 Mar 2023
Are you running Reason (or RRP) on two machines simultaneously? And if so, with just one or with two licenses?
Yes, although only when I play live, so not day to day. I only have one licence, which yes is breaking the licence agreement. Unfortunately there is no legit solution that allows me to share my REs between two Reason licences and I'm not going to buy a second copy of all my REs again. Ironically this wouldn't be a problem if I was using VSTs. When I play like this I use offline authorisation and internet authorisation. I don't feel like anyone is being cheated by this and if I had to buy a second Reason licence and then copies of all the REs I use, realistically I'll be changing my method to playing using Ableton, VSTs or more likely running one laptop with Reason using stock devices only or audio tracks. IMO it's a bit of a different situation to me running two copies of Reason, one for me and one for someone else. It's more akin to playing my Reason songs on two turntables.

Heater
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

23 Mar 2023

Have you tried Nanohost on the target laptop

https://www.tone2.com/nanohost.html

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moalla
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23 Mar 2023

One or two licenses ??? What´s the matter, it´s forbidden to use one liscence on two devices the same time offline activated..., hey that´s ridiculus as point of discussion, cause the main problem since years now is the inaccurate midi clock output from reason, I won´t psychological attack you crimson, but maybe you know a way to solve this problem with Reason itself, otherwise the question one licence one computer offline activation...... is a fraud, one oflline one online okay! Otherwise it´s needs another device (I solved this with a akai rhythm wolf as master midiclock), or another software how generates the midi clock and the two reason instances on several computers in slave, if needed with a midi splitter between. Dioxide I know your bad habbit, I still own a Reason Lite version, but `´m forbidden to install the rack extensions on a the second machine with R lite on it, so it´s a fraud on users by the puplisher, or more nicely said, it´s a stupid quirk that the only way for live usage with two machines in a cellar would be the forbidden way, cause rack extension lisences can only used for one offline activated machine^^

Did someone think that the propellerheads/reasonstudios people like Matthias never authorized/deauthorized a machine for this kind of usage, if yes than they must be saint :lol:

REASON NEEDS A ACCURATE MIDICLOCK OUTPUT SINCE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY mrrrpf
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Yamaha EG112, Ibanez PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE
SE2200t :arrow: VAS micpre MOTO:better repair-mod well made stuff than buy the next crap

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crimsonwarlock
Posts: 2255
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

23 Mar 2023

DaveyG wrote:
23 Mar 2023
TBH it's about time they got with the programme and allowed two or three authorisations per licence as long as they are all used by the same person.
Yep, I very much agree with that.
dioxide wrote:
23 Mar 2023
If you're just playing synths and sounds you'll be fine so long as you won't miss anything that is tempo synced.
Ah, good one. I didn't think about tempo synced stuff, so that's something to keep in mind.
Heater wrote:
23 Mar 2023
Have you tried Nanohost on the target laptop
I've used nanohost and similar solutions before. But that is not the issue. As I said, my primary goal is to run VCV-rack on that laptop, which is standalone already. For using another DAW on the laptop, I have many choices. But as discussed here, being able to run Reason Studio on both machines would be optimal.

Besides using MIDI and audio cables, which obviously needs a full audio/MIDI interface on the laptop side of things, it is also an idea to use something like BlueCat Connector. In that case only a network connection is needed. https://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/P ... Connector/
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

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dioxide
Posts: 1781
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

23 Mar 2023

moalla wrote:
23 Mar 2023
One or two licenses ??? What´s the matter, it´s forbidden to use one liscence on two devices the same time offline activated..., hey that´s ridiculus as point of discussion, cause the main problem since years now is the inaccurate midi clock output from reason, I won´t psychological attack you crimson, but maybe you know a way to solve this problem with Reason itself, otherwise the question one licence one computer offline activation...... is a fraud, one oflline one online okay! Otherwise it´s needs another device (I solved this with a akai rhythm wolf as master midiclock), or another software how generates the midi clock and the two reason instances on several computers in slave, if needed with a midi splitter between. Dioxide I know your bad habbit, I still own a Reason Lite version, but `´m forbidden to install the rack extensions on a the second machine with R lite on it, so it´s a fraud on users by the puplisher, or more nicely said, it´s a stupid quirk that the only way for live usage with two machines in a cellar would be the forbidden way, cause rack extension lisences can only used for one offline activated machine^^

Did someone think that the propellerheads/reasonstudios people like Matthias never authorized/deauthorized a machine for this kind of usage, if yes than they must be saint :lol:

REASON NEEDS A ACCURATE MIDICLOCK OUTPUT SINCE DAY BEFORE YESTERDAY mrrrpf
It's been a while since I did any tests, but from what I remember it's not just Reason. The problem is with USB MIDI output not being priortised over other things as it was never intended for clock output eg. if you're sending something to a printer timing isn't important. I think I also did some tests internally between apps without going out of the computer and again the timing would drift due to jitter. In the end my conclusion was that MIDI Clock couldn't be relied on, and the only thing coming out of a computer with any accuracy is audio. This is why Innerclock Systems and I think Roland too have solutions that output clock data as an audio stream and then convert it to MIDI Clock outside of the computer. USB MIDI note and CCs seems to be fine really, it's just that the jitter that USB MIDI Clock has means that the sync just doesn't work like it does with hardware.

Ableton Link on the other hand is very good. I submitted some bugs for Reason's implementation of Link in the last year or so which were fixed and the timing is now very good. If you haven't tried it recently give it another go.

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moalla
Posts: 541
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: DDR WEST

23 Mar 2023

dioxide wrote:
23 Mar 2023
It's been a while since I did any tests, but from what I remember it's not just Reason. The problem is with USB MIDI output not being priortised over other things as it was never intended for clock output eg. if you're sending something to a printer timing isn't important. I think I also did some tests internally between apps without going out of the computer and again the timing would drift due to jitter. In the end my conclusion was that MIDI Clock couldn't be relied on, and the only thing coming out of a computer with any accuracy is audio. This is why Innerclock Systems and I think Roland too have solutions that output clock data as an audio stream and then convert it to MIDI Clock outside of the computer. USB MIDI note and CCs seems to be fine really, it's just that the jitter that USB MIDI Clock has means that the sync just doesn't work like it does with hardware.

Ableton Link on the other hand is very good. I submitted some bugs for Reason's implementation of Link in the last year or so which were fixed and the timing is now very good. If you haven't tried it recently give it another go.
Thanks dioxide, really insightful answer about the midi timing problem, don´t heard about this thematic befor. So iI will give Link a try the next time.
But now my studio is completly in the stage of rebuild, the hardware still working fine, without hum right now, buuuuut the desktop machine is still needs service ;) before I can test this. I have to learn something about ableton link and interconnection between the different machines, only used it till now with my ipad.
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Yamaha EG112, Ibanez PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE
SE2200t :arrow: VAS micpre MOTO:better repair-mod well made stuff than buy the next crap

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