Beyond Europa?

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dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

01 Mar 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
28 Feb 2023
FullBucket has a (free) modular synth like that (and polyphonic to boot): https://www.fullbucket.de/music/modulair.html


Image
Great synth, very underrated imo

reasonosaer
Posts: 42
Joined: 20 Dec 2022

01 Mar 2023

phase plant and uvi falcon are two standouts in the current generation of what I used to think of as "just use omnisphere" synths designed to be the be all end all in terms of sound quality and features. i've always enjoyed more synths that encourage you to do something different or go in a particular creative direction sound wise via interesting architectures or interfaces.

hardware examples i can think of off the top of my head are the casio cz synths, octave plateau cat series, and more recently nonlinear labs c15. reason has a bunch of good softsynths i'd put in this category like nostromo, jps harmonic, grain, saw-1, driver, revival, oberon, etc.

the only synth i currently use that's further in the "just use omnisphere" direction than europa and expanse is dune 3 by synapse. i'd also point out that between the synapse and blamsoft REs and subtractor we have a unique embarassment of va riches in reason. i'm struggling to think of any softsynths as old as subtractor that hold up as well today. there was other really good dsp around back then but not a lot, and i doubt any of it still constitutes the core ip of a going concern today the way p jubel's og code does for RS.

Jac459
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02 Mar 2023

jam-s wrote:
28 Feb 2023
I'd love for RS to include some well made physical modelling brass and woodwind synths.
Well said!
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

iTrensharo
Posts: 57
Joined: 17 Jun 2021

02 Mar 2023

Jac459 wrote:
02 Mar 2023
jam-s wrote:
28 Feb 2023
I'd love for RS to include some well made physical modelling brass and woodwind synths.
Well said!
Brass and Woodwinds are both basically wind instruments. You can't easily physically model them. That's why Strings, Pluck and Percussion are usually what are physically modeled...

Violin/Cello/Viola/Bass, Pianos, Drums, Harp, etc.

It's a bit harder to "physically model" air blowing through an instrument, and it's certainly going to be a lot hard to make it sound anything near realistic. Samples are very likely to be the gold standard for those types of instruments ... for the foreseeable future.

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dvdrtldg
Posts: 2386
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02 Mar 2023

iTrensharo wrote:
02 Mar 2023
Brass and Woodwinds are both basically wind instruments. You can't easily physically model them. That's why Strings, Pluck and Percussion are usually what are physically modeled...

Violin/Cello/Viola/Bass, Pianos, Drums, Harp, etc.

It's a bit harder to "physically model" air blowing through an instrument, and it's certainly going to be a lot hard to make it sound anything near realistic. Samples are very likely to be the gold standard for those types of instruments ... for the foreseeable future.
SWAM wants a word with you


iTrensharo
Posts: 57
Joined: 17 Jun 2021

02 Mar 2023

dvdrtldg wrote:
02 Mar 2023
iTrensharo wrote:
02 Mar 2023
Brass and Woodwinds are both basically wind instruments. You can't easily physically model them. That's why Strings, Pluck and Percussion are usually what are physically modeled...

Violin/Cello/Viola/Bass, Pianos, Drums, Harp, etc.

It's a bit harder to "physically model" air blowing through an instrument, and it's certainly going to be a lot hard to make it sound anything near realistic. Samples are very likely to be the gold standard for those types of instruments ... for the foreseeable future.
SWAM wants a word with you

It sounds... like a synth. with robotic vibrato and pretty obviously generated note attacks, etc. This is what I'm talking about.

It's much easier to synthesize those other types of sounds. There is a reason why this area is not nearly as explored, while the other instrument types were modeled fairly decently a decade ago.

I'm not saying it won't get there, but it certainly isn't there yet. It has some of the same issues that plague mediocre sample libraries (e.g. NI's Cremona Quartet) and cause composers to avoid them.

I wouldn't buy this. I would use a sample library.
Last edited by iTrensharo on 02 Mar 2023, edited 1 time in total.

iTrensharo
Posts: 57
Joined: 17 Jun 2021

02 Mar 2023

Popey wrote:
28 Feb 2023
Beyond europa for me would be a synth with more lfo's and envelopes/mseg. Europa is a great synth but wish rs added more as sometimes I run out.

It could be a europa 2 with these added and I would be very happy.
I think RS could benefit a lot from focusing on the core Sequencer and actually updating what is there.

A lot of what they have feels almost like abandonware. Once it's released, they barely ever touch it.

dusan.cani
Posts: 472
Joined: 16 Oct 2018
Location: Slovakia

02 Mar 2023

Jac459 wrote:
28 Feb 2023

Funny, I am a big fan of blamsoft, I love zero and expanse so bought vk2 but never used it much.
Maybe you should revisit this synth because it sounds really awesome :mrgreen:

Pity that it isn't possible to sell RE licenses between users. I would buy this synth from you, immediately :mrgreen:

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moalla
Posts: 541
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02 Mar 2023

dusan.cani wrote:
02 Mar 2023
Jac459 wrote:
28 Feb 2023

Funny, I am a big fan of blamsoft, I love zero and expanse so bought vk2 but never used it much.
Maybe you should revisit this synth because it sounds really awesome :mrgreen:

Pity that it isn't possible to sell RE licenses between users. I would buy this synth from you, immediately :mrgreen:
So let us make a VK2 challenge next time, this synth needs more attention, and maybe a new video tutorial about. But I´m not so common with obs studio etc.. I think i can take the time to realize that in two weeks, especial when my desktop machine is reactivated, but I´m still in reconstructing my whole studiospace now, so it would be really nice to start this hopefully before reasonstudios relleasing the new synth ;)
https://soundcloud.com/user-594407128
Reason12.5, Yamaha EG112, Ibanez PF10, RhythmWolf, Miniak, Ipad+SparkLE
SE2200t :arrow: VAS micpre MOTO:better repair-mod well made stuff than buy the next crap

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Loque
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02 Mar 2023

RS needs something with AI. At least for marketing buzz.
Reason12, Win10

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DaveyG
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02 Mar 2023

Loque wrote:
02 Mar 2023
RS needs something with AI. At least for marketing buzz.
RAIson Studios

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Loque
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Posts: 11175
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03 Mar 2023

DaveyG wrote:
02 Mar 2023
Loque wrote:
02 Mar 2023
RS needs something with AI. At least for marketing buzz.
RAIson Studios
rAck Intension

Ok... Too many bad jokes...
Reason12, Win10

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Quarmat
Competition Winner
Posts: 459
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Location: Europe

03 Mar 2023

Loque wrote:
02 Mar 2023
RS needs something with AI. At least for marketing buzz.
I agree, some kind of AI mixing/mastering helper that analyzes your reference tracks and suggest you adjustments or a "murf.ai"-like singer where you can set the lyrics, chose the voice, write the melody in the sequencer and then modulate the voice timbre, intensity, articulations with MW, PB and other expression interfaces.

That would be awesome

_andreypetr_
Posts: 156
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03 Mar 2023


Jac459
Posts: 677
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03 Mar 2023

dusan.cani wrote:
02 Mar 2023
Maybe you should revisit this synth because it sounds really awesome :mrgreen:

Pity that it isn't possible to sell RE licenses between users. I would buy this synth from you, immediately :mrgreen:
OK I will try it ... again this weekend.

Now I am all about twin 3, my new favorite toy.
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

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Loque
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Posts: 11175
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03 Mar 2023

_andreypetr_ wrote:
03 Mar 2023
In may? Meehhh...that is ages away :-(
Reason12, Win10

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SebAudio
Posts: 362
Joined: 08 Mar 2015
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04 Mar 2023

Chi-Individual wrote:
28 Feb 2023
The one thing missing from Reason that I’ve asked for is a truly modular synth. Like a modular cmb, or a modular page similar to Bitwig’s grid, where you can add as many oscillators , filters, lfo’s etc as your heart, mind and cpu can handle. Complex-1 is nice but sometimes you want just a few more LPG’s or a different oscillator. Imagine RS using vertical half racks but all modular on the front.

Other than that, like mentioned before, physical modeling is always welcomed. I’d also like to see the RS version of V Collection slowly become a thing(I know I’m asking a lot but I can dream :-)) just to start replacing the Layers REs. A RS Matrix-12 or Jupiter-8 would be some welcome additions/REs for me.
The « modular comb » is great idea that’s been mentioned here a few times.
I quite like Complex-1 as it is even if not expandable. What I’d prefer is greater sounding modules. Oscillators, wavefolders and « East coast » filter in Complex-1 are not very good, hence you wish you had several choices. You talked about jp8 : this synth is very simple, but what a great sound ! For me, in the end, it’s not having all the possibilities, but having thoughtful great sounding ones.

Jac459
Posts: 677
Joined: 29 Mar 2022
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04 Mar 2023

iTrensharo wrote:
02 Mar 2023
It sounds... like a synth. with robotic vibrato and pretty obviously generated note attacks, etc. This is what I'm talking about.

It's much easier to synthesize those other types of sounds. There is a reason why this area is not nearly as explored, while the other instrument types were modeled fairly decently a decade ago.

I'm not saying it won't get there, but it certainly isn't there yet. It has some of the same issues that plague mediocre sample libraries (e.g. NI's Cremona Quartet) and cause composers to avoid them.

I wouldn't buy this. I would use a sample library.
Your tough... Sounds pretty convincing to me. And I think it demonstrate we are quite near there... So hoping that RS nailed it and managed to cover the last centimeters of reality isn't unrealistic to me...

Before Friktion, nothing was as convincing by far....
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...

iTrensharo
Posts: 57
Joined: 17 Jun 2021

05 Mar 2023

Jac459 wrote:
04 Mar 2023
iTrensharo wrote:
02 Mar 2023
It sounds... like a synth. with robotic vibrato and pretty obviously generated note attacks, etc. This is what I'm talking about.

It's much easier to synthesize those other types of sounds. There is a reason why this area is not nearly as explored, while the other instrument types were modeled fairly decently a decade ago.

I'm not saying it won't get there, but it certainly isn't there yet. It has some of the same issues that plague mediocre sample libraries (e.g. NI's Cremona Quartet) and cause composers to avoid them.

I wouldn't buy this. I would use a sample library.
Your tough... Sounds pretty convincing to me. And I think it demonstrate we are quite near there... So hoping that RS nailed it and managed to cover the last centimeters of reality isn't unrealistic to me...

Before Friktion, nothing was as convincing by far....
Unless it's free, tough is the only way to be.

Market is beyond saturated.

Friction was never that attractive cause I have string libraries that sound better and other synths that do physical modeling (some DAWs ship with this - Logic, Live Suite).

I would be buying it for... presets? I don't doubt its potential value, esp to those who produce in the reason sequencer.

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Jagwah
Posts: 2549
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

20 May 2023

Thanks for the discussion peeps and sorry I disappeared shortly after starting this thread, damn you guys are hilarious! : D

BRIGGS wrote:
28 Feb 2023
"Beyond Europa?"

Ganymede comes after Europa. :geek: :puf_smile:

Image

ref: https://airandspace.si.edu/exhibitions/ ... /moons.cfm

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arnigretar
Posts: 453
Joined: 15 May 2020
Location: Iceland
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20 May 2023

Loque wrote:
28 Feb 2023
On the other hand I am always surprised again what great sounds Subtractor can produce, which cannot be created by Thor or Europa 😁
Always. Sometimes people don't need to dig deep for massive sounds :) 23 years old and still rocking.
https://futuregrapher.bandcamp.com/

Reason 12, Ableton Live 10 Suite, Roland Cloud, Arturia V9, Korg Legacy 3, Soundtoys 5, Waves Mercury, Sonic Charge Bundle, N.I.: Massive, Reaktor 6, FM8. + a lot of Hardware. Windows 7/10.

EdGrip
Posts: 2343
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

24 May 2023

selig wrote:
28 Feb 2023
There was an early software synth back around 2000, can’t remember the name. But it had a simple feature I wish more softsynths had. And that was a list of modules and an unlimited (as far as I ever found) number/combination of modules.
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
It’s certainly not needed in many cases, overkill even. But I always wondered why more modern synths (or at least ONE of them) didn’t take such a fully modular and flexible approach rather than start with restrictions on the number of modules.
Or maybe there already exists such a synth and I’m out of the loop?
Traktion's Hyperion sounds like it matches this description - https://www.tracktion.com/products/hyperion

Mataya
Posts: 518
Joined: 03 May 2019

24 May 2023

EdGrip wrote:
24 May 2023
selig wrote:
28 Feb 2023
There was an early software synth back around 2000, can’t remember the name. But it had a simple feature I wish more softsynths had. And that was a list of modules and an unlimited (as far as I ever found) number/combination of modules.
So you could build a 10 oscillator synth, or have 12 LFOs and only one envelope if that’s what your patch called for. You would add them “as needed” and as such you had a very clear and uncluttered interface.
It’s certainly not needed in many cases, overkill even. But I always wondered why more modern synths (or at least ONE of them) didn’t take such a fully modular and flexible approach rather than start with restrictions on the number of modules.
Or maybe there already exists such a synth and I’m out of the loop?
Traktion's Hyperion sounds like it matches this description - https://www.tracktion.com/products/hyperion
KarmaFX https://karmafx.net/products

Love that shit.

M

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