Anyone developing a mixer?

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Murf wrote:
26 Feb 2023
1) The MODRACK series will never get a graphics update (other than HD which is being pushed through now). The reason is it is supposed to look 'handmade" like lab style modules
Handmade stuff can look great too :puf_wink:
Murf wrote:
26 Feb 2023
2) I definitely want to do a stereo version of the Mix88 but it will have much more features, and I will probably break my own mould and finally charge for it. (low price though).
Maybe I will keep the more simple look for the mono free version and do all the cool UI and extra features on the stereo one and give it a new name.
To be honest, much more features won't really interest me. I think we have enough featured mixers available already, so I won't drop money on that. It is the 8x8 routing matrix you have here, that just has to be stereo, so it can route stereo signals. This would fill a purpose that is currently only catered for in the main mixer through the FX sends. This would bring that option into the rack. There's not even the need for panning in such a scenario.

As for the 88 thing, never heard of it either. Perhaps it looks like SS, but that is still something entirely different.
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Bes
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Post 26 Feb 2023

havn't seen kill bill since it came out. might be time to rewatch.

i like mix8x8 tho
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Loque
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Murf wrote: ...
Here are my first impressions so far:
* I am not a fan of the simple polished silver plate look. Maybe light gray/white, used look would be better
* A lot of red lighted buttons. Are they all disabled when "red"? Maybe use green to indicate a "on" if that makes more sense and "red" only if disabled
* Backside counts from 8 to 1 from left to right. Would be better to have 1 to 8 from left to right or do i miss something specific here?
* The spots/stains on the backside look a bit like under water bubbles. Less is more, and maybe more textures for the spots themselves
* 2 "Mute" buttons is a bit weird. For me a "M" would be enough and there is an "S" missing for Solo, which is essential IMO
* What does C/O Meter Changeover mean? Switch between Input/Output monitoring? Or monitor channel only? No iead yeat if this functions is useful. Need to read the manual...
* No idea for what the Matrix is and how to use it. I could not yet get it to work...
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Murf
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Loque wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Murf wrote: ...
Here are my first impressions so far:
* I am not a fan of the simple polished silver plate look. Maybe light gray/white, used look would be better
* A lot of red lighted buttons. Are they all disabled when "red"? Maybe use green to indicate a "on" if that makes more sense and "red" only if disabled
* Backside counts from 8 to 1 from left to right. Would be better to have 1 to 8 from left to right or do i miss something specific here?
* The spots/stains on the backside look a bit like under water bubbles. Less is more, and maybe more textures for the spots themselves
* 2 "Mute" buttons is a bit weird. For me a "M" would be enough and there is an "S" missing for Solo, which is essential IMO
* What does C/O Meter Changeover mean? Switch between Input/Output monitoring? Or monitor channel only? No iead yeat if this functions is useful. Need to read the manual...
* No idea for what the Matrix is and how to use it. I could not yet get it to work...

Thanks Loque, great feedback.
I wont address the UI/look feedback much just yet as it will change a bit over the next few iterations anyway, other than yes, red is on. (These will probably become a push button with an LED next to it like the MIDAS XL88)
The backwards from 8 to 1 is again identical to the XL88, corresponding to the "module" that is behind it I guess.

C/O primary function is to change wether the VU meter in each strip shows the Direct out signal or the Mixed signal level. I think the logic is around the wrong way for this. (Yellow/on should be for matrix mix)
One mute button is to mute the direct out the other is to mute the matrix mix out.

Can I point out that I did not design any of this functionality, it is identical to the MIDAS XL88, which the manual can be seen here, it explains everything as far as that goes.
https://tcfurlong.com/wp-content/upload ... Manual.pdf


TIP: assuming you have some inputs, just press the buttons on Channel 1 that correspond to the inputs and the "matrix" out for that channel will reflect it.
This really is a classic broadcast style matrix mixer, pretty standard functionality.

Murf.

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Loque
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Ok...i figured out:
* "Red" means "enbaled"
* If something is connected, i can mis it into the mixer slot, which makes it a bus mixer
* The Gain controls are fading and not instant. I would prefere instant. It can have a general 0.01ms fade to prevent clicks, but nothing more
* I need to "Enable" at least one slot to hear something, so it is an all in all bus mixer and routing to a channel does not mean to route to main Gain slider. Maybe this can be more obvious by using a different naming scheme instead from 1 to 8, like "Bus #1" to "Bus #8"
* Maybe add text panels which can be named for each channel
* By removing the screws for each mixer panel you would earn space for M and S buttons and the Direct out could also move to the bottom if you like. This gives room for a Panning control. Or the panning can go to the bottom
* With a slightly different organisation and by borrowing room fro the right most Spacer there wuld be room to have the Matrix Input for the Bus channel have a Mix Knob and M and S buttons
* Maybe color coding can help instead of numbering (if it does not look to weird and confusing)
* The right most Spacer plate with the Enable buttons has room for some overall Gain, Panning and maybe more

Now i must check, if i can build a Send FX Mixer with Feedback...my most wanted use case at all :-)
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Loque
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Murf wrote:
26 Feb 2023
...
Can I point out that I did not design any of this functionality, it is identical to the MIDAS XL88, which the manual can be seen here, it explains everything as far as that goes.
https://tcfurlong.com/wp-content/upload ... Manual.pdf
...
Murf.
Yea, sure. It is up to you how close you stay on an original device or just get inspired and take it further they way you think it would be better. Your device, your decision. I just provide my feedback here to let you know what i (a user which never heard of this device) thinks ;-)
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Loque
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Post 26 Feb 2023

I just read, the output can boost up to +10dB. Is this implemented?

And the manual says about red lights:
The Direct Output Mute cuts the signal and is active when the button is depressed and the red LED glowing

And i have the feeling, that the Matrix Gain knobs are wrong. I read they should "send" to the Matrix bus, but for me it sounds like they mix "from" the matrix bus. Or i missread something... Also the manual says
Using the Matrix Outputs
It is important to note that the Routing Level Controls affect the OUTGOING

I could create a feedback loop, but the connection was different then expected. Maybe you can help a little bit and give me a simple signal which uses a Delay in a Feedbackloop?
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rorystorm
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Tangent re the 88 thing if anyone's interested: it was code for Heil Hitler, as H is the 8th letter of the alphabet. So two 8s = two letters H. Its a common neo nazi / skinhead tattoo. Not that many neo nazis can count as high as eight. They'd have to use more than the fingers on one hand.

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crimsonwarlock
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Post 26 Feb 2023

88 in Morse code stands for "Love and Kisses" :thumbup:
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Bes
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Post 26 Feb 2023

if you disconnect an Audio cable while signal is live and the LED's are glowing, the audio cuts out as expected but the LED's remain lit

the i/o port orientation on the rear panel are not consistent with the reason standard and it is more difficult to navigate and patch because of it
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Murf
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Loque wrote:
26 Feb 2023
I just read, the output can boost up to +10dB. Is this implemented?
Not yet but planned

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Murf
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Loque wrote:
26 Feb 2023

And i have the feeling, that the Matrix Gain knobs are wrong. I read they should "send" to the Matrix bus, but for me it sounds like they mix "from" the matrix bus. Or i missread something...
Definitely should be sending, only affecting the amount of the one input the are associated to being sent to the "matrix output" for that channel strip.
Can you explain more why this isnt as expected?

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Murf
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Loque wrote:
26 Feb 2023

I could create a feedback loop, but the connection was different then expected. Maybe you can help a little bit and give me a simple signal which uses a Delay in a Feedbackloop?
I have not played much with feedback other than with my soon to be released MODRACK DELAY RE.
There was a bit of an issue getting feedback ramping up due to the small amounts of audio engine delay but I recall it worked.
Can you please PM me a combinator made to do what you are trying with Mix88? (Save files dont load in the developer version of reason 12)
Make sure it uses free REs :)
Murf

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Murf
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Post 26 Feb 2023

Bes wrote:
26 Feb 2023
if you disconnect an Audio cable while signal is live and the LED's are glowing, the audio cuts out as expected but the LED's remain lit

the i/o port orientation on the rear panel are not consistent with the reason standard and it is more difficult to navigate and patch because of it
Thanks re the first point, should be easy to fix.

Re the other point, and other feedback so far:

- There is not much appetite for a "like for like" replica of the XL88
- There is a need for a simple 8x8 Mixer
- There is also a need for a more advanced 8x8 mixer (stereo and other features)

based on this I will split my focus to 3 different REs

MODRACK MATRIX88 (Highest Priority)
A simple 8x8 mono matrix mixer similar to the VCV rack one from Bogaudio:
matrix88.PNG
MIX88 (Medium Priority)
A like for like "alternative" to the MIDAS XL88

MATRIXMIXER8x8 (Medium Priority)
A full featured Stereo 8x8 Matrix Mixer with every feature a decent matrix mixer can be made to had (other than EQ sorry)



Murf
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Murf
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Post 27 Feb 2023

Ok here is my first attempt at the MODRACK simple 8x8 Matrix Mixer, nothing fancy, and thats how it will remain.
I understand if no one wants to beta test it but please PM me if you are interested.
I will keep working on the other two.
modrack-matrix88.PNG
Murf
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_andreypetr_
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Post 27 Feb 2023

Murf wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Here is a screenshot of the alpha, thanks to the people who offered to beta test.
Murf
I really need such thing for CV. Simplest device like Quadelectra Suite line processor that have a lot of knobs like Hamu Newtrol 16 but only with knobs and proper space for labelling. And I think that every mixer you develop should have labels for every channel too.

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Murf
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Post 27 Feb 2023

_andreypetr_ wrote:
27 Feb 2023
Murf wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Here is a screenshot of the alpha, thanks to the people who offered to beta test.
Murf
I really need such thing for CV. Simplest device like Quadelectra Suite line processor that have a lot of knobs like Hamu Newtrol 16 but only with knobs and proper space for labelling. And I think that every mixer you develop should have labels for every channel too.
Hi, for the simple mixer labelling is not done yet.
It will be when I release the first beta test in a day or two.

You want a version of this for CV also?
Save me some effort and think of a good name for it! please!! :)

Murf.

_andreypetr_
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Post 27 Feb 2023

Murf wrote:
27 Feb 2023
_andreypetr_ wrote:
27 Feb 2023


I really need such thing for CV. Simplest device like Quadelectra Suite line processor that have a lot of knobs like Hamu Newtrol 16 but only with knobs and proper space for labelling. And I think that every mixer you develop should have labels for every channel too.
Hi, for the simple mixer labelling is not done yet.
It will be when I release the first beta test in a day or two.

You want a version of this for CV also?
Save me some effort and think of a good name for it! please!! :)

Murf.
🙏🙏🙏
CVtrol 😁
Last edited by _andreypetr_ on 27 Feb 2023, edited 1 time in total.

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jam-s
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Post 27 Feb 2023

Murf wrote:
27 Feb 2023
Ok here is my first attempt at the MODRACK simple 8x8 Matrix Mixer, nothing fancy, and thats how it will remain.
I understand if no one wants to beta test it but please PM me if you are interested.
I will keep working on the other two.

modrack-matrix88.PNG
I've got a name suggestion: Modrack M8rix8 (this also removes the 88 thing.)

sdst
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Post 27 Feb 2023

I would like something like the Mixer 14:2

with low cut and high cut filters, and double pan, I would buy that

for something more limited I don't see the point

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selig
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Post 27 Feb 2023

sdst wrote:
27 Feb 2023
I would like something like the Mixer 14:2

with low cut and high cut filters, and double pan, I would buy that

for something more limited I don't see the point
Which brings us back to page one - I’d have to expand the height to add the second pan knob but as a fan of dual pan knobs I totally see the reason for that. You could also make it even taller and squeeze more than 10 channels in…
Image
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dioxide
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Post 27 Feb 2023

I'm interested to why you chose 10 channels. Since 8 is pretty standard when it comes to MIDI controllers I always thought 8 would be a better option. I understand why the 14:2 mixer had 14 channels because at the time it was Reason's only mixer but the line mixer probably would be better if it had 8 channels.

sdst
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Post 27 Feb 2023

selig wrote:
27 Feb 2023

Which brings us back to page one - I’d have to expand the height to add the second pan knob but as a fan of dual pan knobs I totally see the reason for that. You could also make it even taller and squeeze more than 10 channels in…
Image
that's exactly what I want. :-) and that can be used with midi controller

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selig
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Post 27 Feb 2023

dioxide wrote:
27 Feb 2023
I'm interested to why you chose 10 channels. Since 8 is pretty standard when it comes to MIDI controllers I always thought 8 would be a better option. I understand why the 14:2 mixer had 14 channels because at the time it was Reason's only mixer but the line mixer probably would be better if it had 8 channels.
Because ReDrum, and that's what I could fit. Remember, this was a proof of concept to see what would fit.
If it was 8 I guess I could make bigger knobs - that's the main advantage to 8 vs 10 channels with this particular design.
I DO get that 8 would be more easily supported with controllers, but in that case just don't use the last two channels?
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DJMaytag
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Post 27 Feb 2023

You could make the case that 2x 8-channel mixers would be perfect for Kong.

FWIW, I rarely use all 10 outputs of Redrum. Because of the 2 exclusive hit channels (ie for hihats), the most I would ever use is 9, and 8 is most likely to be most. It’s more like 5 or 6, and a few channels get unused.

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