Polyphonizer idea/ request

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Polyphonizer

Yup - gr8 idea
2
40%
Nope
3
60%
 
Total votes: 5
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visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

So since many people are trying out modular stuff within reason, and since i myself was trying to build a poly synth in reason, i had this idea of the polyphonizer.
So basically building a mono synth is pretty straight forward. Connect an oscillator with a VCA, and an envelope generator. Add a filter if you want...or some waveshaping, saturation etc.

However building a polyphonic synth is not so easy. You have to duplicate the mono signal path for each voice etc.


However i propose a special combinator for this.
Whatever signal path with whatever devices you make in this special combinator, it duplicates it invisibly for as many notes polyphony you select on its main panel.

So lets say you build a mono synth inside this polyphonizer combinator. You don't need to build seperate chains for every note polyphony you add, the combinator takes care of polyphony for you. All you need is to build a mono synth inside this combi, and select how many voices you want.

Does this idea make any sense?
What do you think ?

Edit : while i myself am uncertain whether reason could/should become a modular platform, I've seen may developers trying to build a modular system in reason...while doing monophonic devices is easy, i don't think building polyphonic modular setups is possible without intervention of reason studios themselves...maybe a modular reason rack is a great idea, or maybe not, time will tell...but i believe RS should be ready if this shift towards modular is to take place in the future

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crimsonwarlock
Posts: 2250
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

26 Feb 2023

Create a mono synth in a combinator, copy-paste the mono synth for as many voices you need, drop in distributor or another similar tool... done.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Create a mono synth in a combinator, copy-paste the mono synth for as many voices you need, drop in distributor or another similar tool... done.
Well yeah but any change you make in the sound, you'd have to copy patch and paste patch for all the devices in all voices, thats why i suggested this special device...also what about making changes to the sound while playing live, everytime youd have to copy paste patches for all voices...but if you have this device which automatically copies the signal path invisibly and plays the voices, it would be a really awesome addition to reason

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

Also i hope RS can implement this before people like me lose the enthusiasm for this and before the competition already has it available in the next update.

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crimsonwarlock
Posts: 2250
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

26 Feb 2023

visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Well yeah but any change you make in the sound, you'd have to copy patch and paste patch for all the devices in all voices, thats why i suggested this special device...also what about making changes to the sound while playing live, everytime youd have to copy paste patches for all voices...but if you have this device which automatically copies the signal path invisibly and plays the voices, it would be a really awesome addition to reason
Isn't that exactly what combinator 2 tries to solve with the knobs and buttons?
visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Also i hope RS can implement this before people like me lose the enthusiasm for this and before the competition already has it available in the next update.
I bet you want ChapGPT integrated into VCVrack, so you can tell it what modular setup you want and it ca build it for you. Besides, have you asked the Bitwig devs already for something like this in their modular system :lol:
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
26 Feb 2023
visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Well yeah but any change you make in the sound, you'd have to copy patch and paste patch for all the devices in all voices, thats why i suggested this special device...also what about making changes to the sound while playing live, everytime youd have to copy paste patches for all voices...but if you have this device which automatically copies the signal path invisibly and plays the voices, it would be a really awesome addition to reason
Isn't that exactly what combinator 2 tries to solve with the knobs and buttons?
visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
Also i hope RS can implement this before people like me lose the enthusiasm for this and before the competition already has it available in the next update.
I bet you want ChapGPT integrated into VCVrack, so you can tell it what modular setup you want and it ca build it for you. Besides, have you asked the Bitwig devs already for something like this in their modular system :lol:
I have no idea what combi 2 does...can it do the polyphonizer thingie ?
If yes, I'll upgrade instantly...
2. I do not want AI of any kind anywhere near my music or studio.
3. I have no recollection of a time when i had a chat with bitwig devs...im still very much pro reason...i have loved this software since its rebirth days and unless absolutely necessary or inevitable i will continue to stick with it, i will continue to make suggestions which keep Reason relevant.and i think its a good suggestion IF it arrives before the need for something like this is gone for whatever reason.

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crimsonwarlock
Posts: 2250
Joined: 06 Nov 2021
Location: Close to the Edge

26 Feb 2023

visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
I have no idea what combi 2 does...can it do the polyphonizer thingie ?
If yes, I'll upgrade instantly...
Look around in the combinator 2 subforum. People have built complete instruments with it. And distributor and similar tools let you build poly instruments from monophonic parts. There are already stereo subtractors, poly synths based on Complex-1, a Europa based alternative for monotone, the list goes on.

There are numerous other things that can be built (and have been built) with combinator 2, it's a pretty impressive tool.
-------
Analog tape ⇒ ESQ1 sequencer board ⇒ Atari/Steinberg Pro24 ⇒ Atari/Cubase ⇒ Cakewalk Sonar ⇒ Orion Pro/Platinum ⇒ Reaper ⇒ Reason DAW.

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

crimsonwarlock wrote:
26 Feb 2023
visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
I have no idea what combi 2 does...can it do the polyphonizer thingie ?
If yes, I'll upgrade instantly...
Look around in the combinator 2 subforum. People have built complete instruments with it. And distributor and similar tools let you build poly instruments from monophonic parts. There are already stereo subtractors, poly synths based on Complex-1, a Europa based alternative for monotone, the list goes on.

There are numerous other things that can be built (and have been built) with combinator 2, it's a pretty impressive tool.
Hmm...why don't they have a demo version of R 12 !

I'd like to take a test drive

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

Maybe I'll get R13 now, because R12 was buggy as hell...till now they're sorting out the bugs, and its still nowhere close to the stability of reason that was its USP.
I use Reason mainly because it doesn't crash, or go nuts, unlike most other software...but R12 broke that promise of stability. So i didn't upgrade...maybe they will sort it out by version 14.

dusan.cani
Posts: 472
Joined: 16 Oct 2018
Location: Slovakia

26 Feb 2023

It would be cool since there isn't any way how to create polyphony with using just one instance of the instrument, exactly as you said. I don't want to create polyhony by using multi copies of the same instrument. Any change of the patch would require changing the controls on all used instances of the same instrument, which is bad user experience.

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visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

dusan.cani wrote:
26 Feb 2023
It would be cool since there isn't any way how to create polyphony with using just one instance of the instrument, exactly as you said. I don't want to create polyhony by using multi copies of the same instrument. Any change of the patch would require changing the controls on all used instances of the same instrument, which is bad user experience.
Thanks for supporting the idea

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QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3488
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
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26 Feb 2023

I’m assuming there are specific mono modules you want to use rather than using an already polyphonic source?

If that’s what you’re after, you actually don’t need to duplicate the signal chain for each voice. You combine the voices into a mixer or merger and then run that into the signal chain, which is more akin to how an actual poly signal chain works. You can use a cv splitter so that you can use just one VCA to control all the oscillators.

You would only need to duplicate the synth (monophonic source) itself to pull this off and if the intent is to build a poly synth rather than just stacking a patch, then changing patches would not be a problem you’d face with duplicates. In a combinator a control can be assigned to control the same parameter on multiple devices at once so that everything’s in sync. There’s a patch in the R12 soundbank I made called 3 Oct Saw where I did something similar with staking 3 Monotones.

The only thing left would be a way for the voices to separate so that you can play chords. Distributor was built exactly for this https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... stributor/

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

26 Feb 2023

QVprod wrote:
26 Feb 2023
I’m assuming there are specific mono modules you want to use rather than using an already polyphonic source?

If that’s what you’re after, you actually don’t need to duplicate the signal chain for each voice. You combine the voices into a mixer or merger and then run that into the signal chain, which is more akin to how an actual poly signal chain works. You can use a cv splitter so that you can use just one VCA to control all the oscillators.

You would only need to duplicate the synth (monophonic source) itself to pull this off and if the intent is to build a poly synth rather than just stacking a patch, then changing patches would not be a problem you’d face with duplicates. In a combinator a control can be assigned to control the same parameter on multiple devices at once so that everything’s in sync. There’s a patch in the R12 soundbank I made called 3 Oct Saw where I did something similar with staking 3 Monotones.

The only thing left would be a way for the voices to separate so that you can play chords. Distributor was built exactly for this https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... stributor/
Hmmm, ok...but since I don't have R12, I'd have to copy paste whatever changes I make to the oscillators right?
Otherwise, I could assign the same combi controls to all the oscillators...maybe I could do this by using the 4 macros on combi 1.

Ok so if I understand correctly, I put a distributor thingie and connect 4 oscillators to it for 4 voice polyphonic Synth...then I send the outs to a mixer, then do I have to send the master out of the mixer to a vca ? Or can I if the mixer has a cv for master level, I could connect it to an envelope generator straight right ? Let's say I use a vca. And connect a single envelope to it.
And then send it thru a filter, fx chain etc....

User avatar
visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

27 Feb 2023

Oh so this was much easier than i thought, i built a 4 voice synth, used Ableton Rack macros to control all oscillators instead of a combinator.
Now off to build a 4 voice two oscillator synth.
Basically all i have to do is duplicate this single oscillator rack and send both thru another filter and combine it in a nested Ableton instrument rack.
Then build an fx chain and combine that with the synth.
😃

Ok so now i have a request to RE devs, if someone could create a simple monophonic lightweight wavetable oscillator.
Or if it already exists, could someone point me to it ?

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visheshl
Posts: 1235
Joined: 27 Sep 2019

27 Feb 2023

Pretty awesome me thinks...(thanks QV prod,crimson)
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QVprod
Moderator
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27 Feb 2023

visheshl wrote:
26 Feb 2023
QVprod wrote:
26 Feb 2023
I’m assuming there are specific mono modules you want to use rather than using an already polyphonic source?

If that’s what you’re after, you actually don’t need to duplicate the signal chain for each voice. You combine the voices into a mixer or merger and then run that into the signal chain, which is more akin to how an actual poly signal chain works. You can use a cv splitter so that you can use just one VCA to control all the oscillators.

You would only need to duplicate the synth (monophonic source) itself to pull this off and if the intent is to build a poly synth rather than just stacking a patch, then changing patches would not be a problem you’d face with duplicates. In a combinator a control can be assigned to control the same parameter on multiple devices at once so that everything’s in sync. There’s a patch in the R12 soundbank I made called 3 Oct Saw where I did something similar with staking 3 Monotones.

The only thing left would be a way for the voices to separate so that you can play chords. Distributor was built exactly for this https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... stributor/
Hmmm, ok...but since I don't have R12, I'd have to copy paste whatever changes I make to the oscillators right?
Otherwise, I could assign the same combi controls to all the oscillators...maybe I could do this by using the 4 macros on combi 1.

Ok so if I understand correctly, I put a distributor thingie and connect 4 oscillators to it for 4 voice polyphonic Synth...then I send the outs to a mixer, then do I have to send the master out of the mixer to a vca ? Or can I if the mixer has a cv for master level, I could connect it to an envelope generator straight right ? Let's say I use a vca. And connect a single envelope to it.
And then send it thru a filter, fx chain etc....
The old combinator works the same way with assigning parameters. No copy paste needed. You’d get far more mileage with R12 though since you’d have more controls to work with.

Output of mixer goes into signal chain of the synth. I assumed a VCA would probably be a CV device which is why I mention using a splitter to connect one VCA to multiple synths. But if it is audio then yeah treat it like the rest of the signal chain coming from the master.

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