![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Hardware vs Software
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Auto-gain control and soft clipping are pretty cheap to add to a device. That would add a fair amount of warmth when driven hot.Goriila Texas wrote: ↑25 Jan 2023The filters are digital maybe it's the converters because the MOSS board I have in it also sounds good.
I found DJ gear tended to add a pleasing warmth.
But you can add that yourself if you really want it. At least that way you get to control what it's applied to.
What did you think of the valve in the Triton Extreme VST?
- homemadenoise
- Posts: 44
- Joined: 03 Feb 2021
We are lucky that both hardware and software are so good these days. And there is good relatively affordable hardware. I mostly use software. It is quicker and easier and more powerful.
But I have gotten more into hardware in recent years. Simply because I like it. It more tactile and fun. Get me away from screen and breaks me out of that box. And there are more happy accidents. I am trying to only trying to do 1 knob per function gear. Just to make it more simple and immediate. And I don't want to be Menu diving on hardware.
Both together is really fun and creative place. Go hybrid.
But I have gotten more into hardware in recent years. Simply because I like it. It more tactile and fun. Get me away from screen and breaks me out of that box. And there are more happy accidents. I am trying to only trying to do 1 knob per function gear. Just to make it more simple and immediate. And I don't want to be Menu diving on hardware.
Both together is really fun and creative place. Go hybrid.
I use everything ITB nowadays. I had some synths and a roland sequencer in the 90/2000's but once i got reason i got rid of them.
And when i started producing my own stuff, i mixed mostly ITB, apart from a bit of an hybrid approach about eq'ing and compression with some outboard gear. However i then turned to some uad stuff in cubase, then when reason got audio i ditched it too because i really dig reason's mixer and i get along with the eq and comp. So, since 2010 i think most of my outboard gear was already pre-amps and phone amps. Synths and samplers are now all in Reason and VSTs.
And when i started producing my own stuff, i mixed mostly ITB, apart from a bit of an hybrid approach about eq'ing and compression with some outboard gear. However i then turned to some uad stuff in cubase, then when reason got audio i ditched it too because i really dig reason's mixer and i get along with the eq and comp. So, since 2010 i think most of my outboard gear was already pre-amps and phone amps. Synths and samplers are now all in Reason and VSTs.
I understand the tactile thing, but i complemented it with controller surfaces, it's not completely the same but it's a good option.homemadenoise wrote: ↑26 Jan 2023We are lucky that both hardware and software are so good these days. And there is good relatively affordable hardware. I mostly use software. It is quicker and easier and more powerful.
But I have gotten more into hardware in recent years. Simply because I like it. It more tactile and fun. Get me away from screen and breaks me out of that box. And there are more happy accidents. I am trying to only trying to do 1 knob per function gear. Just to make it more simple and immediate. And I don't want to be Menu diving on hardware.
Both together is really fun and creative place. Go hybrid.
- crimsonwarlock
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I'm basically completely ITB, but I still have some old hardware lying around that I want to hook up again. Mainly some old FX racks and stomp boxes, but also some rack synths. I do have a microphone channel strip, though, that I use for all vocal recordings.
I also have a CME UF5 midi keyboard with a Waldorf Pico board in it (I got that for a tenner because they didn't sell anymore
). I want to sample the Pico, as the UF5 has no midi in, so there is no way to sequence the darn thing ![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
I also have a CME UF5 midi keyboard with a Waldorf Pico board in it (I got that for a tenner because they didn't sell anymore
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
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Reached the breaking-point. CrimsonWarlock has left the forum.
Reached the breaking-point. CrimsonWarlock has left the forum.
- Creativemind
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Hardware has the edge in texture and dunno, just something about it, a smoothness and warmth imo.
There's something missing with software, like the 303 just has a smudginess to it although never used hardware extensively enough to know, just what I hear when I compare old tracks on You Tube and stuff through headphones comparing VST's to tracks I like. ReBirth certainly did a superb job though.
One VST everyone always rates as identical to it's hardware counterpart, the Korg M1 still has something missing, a slight lushness and texture and the classic house piano sounds thin on the VST. You can definitely tell in Woody Piano Shack comparison video here:-
I'm currently collecting hardware to create an old skool house EP late this year or next. I have a 32 channel Behringer Eurodesk, a Behringer MS-1, a Behringer TD-3, a Novation A-Station, a Novation Drum Station and just about to start assembling a Nava 909. Next is a Korg M1 or Korg M1R and an Akai S950 then I'm set. When I played the A-Station through my desk a few weeks ago, straight away, I was like wow, yeah, hardware beats software.
You can definitely hear the texture difference in another highly acclaimed VST you'd probably want for acid techno, Audio Realism Bass Line 3 vs TB-303 too:-
There's something missing with software, like the 303 just has a smudginess to it although never used hardware extensively enough to know, just what I hear when I compare old tracks on You Tube and stuff through headphones comparing VST's to tracks I like. ReBirth certainly did a superb job though.
One VST everyone always rates as identical to it's hardware counterpart, the Korg M1 still has something missing, a slight lushness and texture and the classic house piano sounds thin on the VST. You can definitely tell in Woody Piano Shack comparison video here:-
I'm currently collecting hardware to create an old skool house EP late this year or next. I have a 32 channel Behringer Eurodesk, a Behringer MS-1, a Behringer TD-3, a Novation A-Station, a Novation Drum Station and just about to start assembling a Nava 909. Next is a Korg M1 or Korg M1R and an Akai S950 then I'm set. When I played the A-Station through my desk a few weeks ago, straight away, I was like wow, yeah, hardware beats software.
You can definitely hear the texture difference in another highly acclaimed VST you'd probably want for acid techno, Audio Realism Bass Line 3 vs TB-303 too:-
Last edited by Creativemind on 26 Jan 2023, edited 1 time in total.
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
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- Creativemind
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Yeah you can but it's how good you want it to sound and if you wanna get as close to the original genre's quality and texture in it's production as possible.Marco Raaphorst wrote: ↑14 Nov 2018Then you can’t make acid using Reason... what a lame genre Acid then is. Only for purists I guess...
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
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- Creativemind
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I'm sorry but it's that same old line every producer says on every forum but watch the video link I shared above and you will hear (or should) that even the Bass Line 3 doesn't have the same magic as a real hardware 303.Loque wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018In that case...as usual...dont blame the toolscome1 wrote: ↑15 Nov 2018Yes but I want to burst out onto the scene!!! Make an impact, shake things up. I think I need some serious hardware to do this. I tried Reason but all my tracks flopped, no DJ would play them because they sounded so lame.
What synth should I start with? Maybe a Mini Moog right? Or should I get and 808 and 303?
Where is Tijn at these days?![]()
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
Neither is better than the other. In opinion workflow considerations matter more than sound quality. So choose whatever is more inspiring.
Hardware can break the monotony of being in front of a computer screen for several hours. It's also fun to work using a different workflow that imposes hard limitations on you, that forces you to think differently and is maybe creatively rewarding in a different way. Unlike most Reason users I started learning hardware only after I learned to use computer DAWs and trackers. Some of the best dance music was made with Akai samplers. The best hiphop beats were made with 12 bit samplers with limited sampling memory.
Hardware can break the monotony of being in front of a computer screen for several hours. It's also fun to work using a different workflow that imposes hard limitations on you, that forces you to think differently and is maybe creatively rewarding in a different way. Unlike most Reason users I started learning hardware only after I learned to use computer DAWs and trackers. Some of the best dance music was made with Akai samplers. The best hiphop beats were made with 12 bit samplers with limited sampling memory.
- Creativemind
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Yeah they were. Some of my favourite house tracks have probably tons of samples played through an S950. Especially some drum breaks / loops or the 727 but somehow they still sound amazing sampled through the S950. Find 727 samples (16 bit stereo wav samples) and put them through the NN-XT and they don't shine like that.miscend wrote: ↑26 Jan 2023Neither is better than the other. In opinion workflow considerations matter more than sound quality. So choose whatever is more inspiring.
Hardware can break the monotony of being in front of a computer screen for several hours. It's also fun to work using a different workflow that imposes hard limitations on you, that forces you to think differently and is maybe creatively rewarding in a different way. Unlike most Reason users I started learning hardware only after I learned to use computer DAWs and trackers. Some of the best dance music was made with Akai samplers. The best hiphop beats were made with 12 bit samplers with limited sampling memory.
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
There was a Microkorg Live show from KORG on YouTube not too long ago.. (Video below) I wanted microkorg 20 years ago but went with the Korg MS2000 B with goose neck Mic. The Vocoder is very good but Rolands VP550 is better tbh.
As for mangling sounds it was brilliant then and still is today although only 4 polyphony but was a spin off or a new hyped up version of MS-20 (monopoly), I guess.
I just recently opened it up for the first time to give it a clean after 20 years and, luckily, the circuit board looks shiny and immaculate.. I was a bit stunned and relieved to see it in it a very good state. The device works perfectly but is not in use at the mo
Easy
I want to clarify something obvious but it seems some got confused about it.
The fact that software can produce as good and rich sound than hardware with the same quality is a given, we can debate if it is since 10 or 20 years but it is a fact. Done.
Now when some people are saying that their hardware synth sound better than the same VST, it is in fact ... absolutely possible and probably the case. But the reason is just the DAC they are using to listen to.
In one case they use professional DAC to connect the synth to a music interface.
In one case they may use the poor shitty DAC of their laptops ..
But that only impact the way they can listen to it. The final quality of the master is not affected by the DAC quality of the PC...
The fact that software can produce as good and rich sound than hardware with the same quality is a given, we can debate if it is since 10 or 20 years but it is a fact. Done.
Now when some people are saying that their hardware synth sound better than the same VST, it is in fact ... absolutely possible and probably the case. But the reason is just the DAC they are using to listen to.
In one case they use professional DAC to connect the synth to a music interface.
In one case they may use the poor shitty DAC of their laptops ..
But that only impact the way they can listen to it. The final quality of the master is not affected by the DAC quality of the PC...
Bitwig and RRP fanboy...
Acid producer here. I've made countless acid tracks using classic 'Roland' sounds, all using Reason plus REs. Every time I've turned up to a gig with a laptop people are shocked as they thought it was all hardware. If there is any difference it is tiny and any labels, record buyers and club goers can't tell the difference. Never owned a real 303 and have no interest in doing so.
Man, that didn't make me want one any less x D - but I also was looking at the R3, Radias, and the blue Electribe, etc. I kind of wanted to make a hardware studio, but in the end, Reason's manual convinced me with that one line: Reason as a software can sound just as good (or better) as hardware.Arpeg wrote: ↑26 Jan 2023There was a Microkorg Live show from KORG on YouTube not too long ago.. (Video below) I wanted microkorg 20 years ago but went with the Korg MS2000 B with goose neck Mic. The Vocoder is very good but Rolands VP550 is better tbh.
As for mangling sounds it was brilliant then and still is today although only 4 polyphony but was a spin off or a new hyped up version of MS-20 (monopoly), I guess.
I just recently opened it up for the first time to give it a clean after 20 years and, luckily, the circuit board looks shiny and immaculate.. I was a bit stunned and relieved to see it in it a very good state. The device works perfectly but is not in use at the mo
Easy
I have no regrets going with hardware MIDI tools and software - but I still kind of want even a simple hardware studio.
I also see all these "new" Subtractor-like analog hardware synthesizers, but damn, there just isn't any synth like Subtractor.
Another synth I considered, was the Novation mininova (I think). Though not sure if it's as rock solid as Korg hardware. I have a Korg midi keyboard, and gave it a glass of cola on day 1, yet still works perfectly to this day! : ) (Unlike other keys)
Of course i still feel a real guitar sounds better than a vst, a real piano if well miked and recorded is a magical sound, and i still record all my flutes, melodica, harmonica's, bagpipe and loads of percussion - nothing can beat the organic and gritty feel of a real musician with a real instrument.mcatalao wrote: ↑26 Jan 2023I use everything ITB nowadays. I had some synths and a roland sequencer in the 90/2000's but once i got reason i got rid of them.
And when i started producing my own stuff, i mixed mostly ITB, apart from a bit of an hybrid approach about eq'ing and compression with some outboard gear. However i then turned to some uad stuff in cubase, then when reason got audio i ditched it too because i really dig reason's mixer and i get along with the eq and comp. So, since 2010 i think most of my outboard gear was already pre-amps and phone amps. Synths and samplers are now all in Reason and VSTs.
- Creativemind
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Does it still work, where d'ya live and would you sell it?
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
- Creativemind
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If a track made using all software came on mixed into a track done before software took over (so a pre-millennium track next to a 2008 or later track) I'd argue you'd be able tell but that's just me.dioxide wrote: ↑27 Jan 2023Acid producer here. I've made countless acid tracks using classic 'Roland' sounds, all using Reason plus REs. Every time I've turned up to a gig with a laptop people are shocked as they thought it was all hardware. If there is any difference it is tiny and any labels, record buyers and club goers can't tell the difference. Never owned a real 303 and have no interest in doing so.
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
- Creativemind
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I'm going with my hardware set up (eventually) triggered by Reaper and will probably use RRP / VST effects to begin with.RobC wrote: ↑27 Jan 2023Man, that didn't make me want one any less x D - but I also was looking at the R3, Radias, and the blue Electribe, etc. I kind of wanted to make a hardware studio, but in the end, Reason's manual convinced me with that one line: Reason as a software can sound just as good (or better) as hardware.Arpeg wrote: ↑26 Jan 2023
There was a Microkorg Live show from KORG on YouTube not too long ago.. (Video below) I wanted microkorg 20 years ago but went with the Korg MS2000 B with goose neck Mic. The Vocoder is very good but Rolands VP550 is better tbh.
As for mangling sounds it was brilliant then and still is today although only 4 polyphony but was a spin off or a new hyped up version of MS-20 (monopoly), I guess.
I just recently opened it up for the first time to give it a clean after 20 years and, luckily, the circuit board looks shiny and immaculate.. I was a bit stunned and relieved to see it in it a very good state. The device works perfectly but is not in use at the mo
Easy
I have no regrets going with hardware MIDI tools and software - but I still kind of want even a simple hardware studio.
I also see all these "new" Subtractor-like analog hardware synthesizers, but damn, there just isn't any synth like Subtractor.
Another synth I considered, was the Novation mininova (I think). Though not sure if it's as rock solid as Korg hardware. I have a Korg midi keyboard, and gave it a glass of cola on day 1, yet still works perfectly to this day! : ) (Unlike other keys)
![Reason :reason:](./images/smilies/reason.gif)
Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3
That's a combo I'm considering, too!Creativemind wrote: ↑27 Jan 2023I'm going with my hardware set up (eventually) triggered by Reaper and will probably use RRP / VST effects to begin with.RobC wrote: ↑27 Jan 2023
Man, that didn't make me want one any less x D - but I also was looking at the R3, Radias, and the blue Electribe, etc. I kind of wanted to make a hardware studio, but in the end, Reason's manual convinced me with that one line: Reason as a software can sound just as good (or better) as hardware.
I have no regrets going with hardware MIDI tools and software - but I still kind of want even a simple hardware studio.
I also see all these "new" Subtractor-like analog hardware synthesizers, but damn, there just isn't any synth like Subtractor.
Another synth I considered, was the Novation mininova (I think). Though not sure if it's as rock solid as Korg hardware. I have a Korg midi keyboard, and gave it a glass of cola on day 1, yet still works perfectly to this day! : ) (Unlike other keys)
Though the hardware-only setup is inspiring in a unique way. Heck, even ReBirth with its limitations was already very inspiring.
I have a S900 with triggers floating around somewhere (I let someone borrow it years ago and can’t remember who…)!
Was my first (owned) sampler - my first sampler was the CMI, and I was able to re-sample my favorite custom samples from the CMI into the S900, then into NNXT 15 years later! Some of the samples started life as field recordings from a Sony F1, speaking of hardware…
Also have a Matrix 6 in the basement from the same time period, as well as a couple of PCM-70s i’ve been unable to keep running reliably over the years (display and power supply issues). Ahhh, hardware…
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